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The annual "Boxing Day Trains" row.
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" http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38432018
Just when does he think engineering work should be carried out? He doesn't give an alternative. Another example of Labour pointlessly walking themselves into being a laughing stock.
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FlippyFF
Member
For the last few years, from what I can recall, Southeastern have run a boxing day service between Ashford International and St Pancras but this year it is between St Pancras and Gravesend - posters at Ashford's ticket offices advised that this was due to engineering work but I've just checked RealTimeTrains and see that both trains ran empty from Ashford to St Pancras this morning and will return this evening. Eurostar have a couple of services serving Ashford today, so where is this 'engineering work' taking place?
TIA
Simon
TIA
Simon
swissrailpassion
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The "greatest investment in the railways since Victorian times" is in tatters yet the Labour Party haven't noticed. They have been given an open goal, an enlarged goal mouth and still the Labour team are in the changing room arguing over the shirts.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
"Shadow transport secretary Andy McDonald said: "Tory ministers' handling of the Boxing Day rail standstill is making it much harder for families and friends to visit one another this Christmas break."
"In opposition the Tories attacked the Boxing Day rail shutdown. They've now had more than six years to do something about it but haven't.
"Their lack of action, even despite the chaos of previous years, gives the impression they don't really care about it at all. The Tory hypocrisy on this issue is astounding."
A Department for Transport spokeswoman said: "Deciding the level of service on specific days is a matter for train operators.
"But we know some passengers want to travel on Boxing Day, and that's why we have worked with the rail industry to ensure there are limited services on some franchises on that day, and that the scope for Boxing Day services is considered when we are planning future franchises."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38432018
Debate closes at midnight tonight.
Habits and patterns have changed since Boxing Day services were withdrawn across the board. The structure of the industry makes it difficult to adapt to changes, i.e. shopping habits and to meet the demands of growing number of passengers. Once something is withdrawn, it is usually more difficult to re-instate. If services had never been withdrawn, rail staff would have just gone along with it but now, re-instatement would have to be run by the unions and franchise contracts examined before any agreement could be reached and which wouldn't be a very smooth ride now. By the way, sporting fixtures have continued right through this period, so this habit hasn't changed.
ChathillMan
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I think two separate issues are at hand
Network Rail are quite right to carry out major works over the festive period, like they do at Easter and during the School Holidays. So any politician talking about engineering works is talking rubbish.
I think the problem exists where the works aren't taking place.
I think we are approaching a time when some sort of modified Sunday service will be expected on Boxing Day on lines not disrupted by engineering works (I am not saying that is right). If so, I'd also make all intercity services advance purchase with a compulsory reservation that day so that the TOCS get the revenue to cover the cost of running the service if a customer chooses not to travel.
Network Rail are quite right to carry out major works over the festive period, like they do at Easter and during the School Holidays. So any politician talking about engineering works is talking rubbish.
I think the problem exists where the works aren't taking place.
I think we are approaching a time when some sort of modified Sunday service will be expected on Boxing Day on lines not disrupted by engineering works (I am not saying that is right). If so, I'd also make all intercity services advance purchase with a compulsory reservation that day so that the TOCS get the revenue to cover the cost of running the service if a customer chooses not to travel.
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dk1
Veteran Member
Wind them up & let them go. They bore us with this drivel every year. I like to bore them with the fact I personally will never drive a train on Christmas or Boxing Day, end of.
Something that could be addressed better by a more fully privatised model. After all, the Asda's of this world just quietly got on with Boxing Day opening without fuss. Meanwhile the rail industry still acts as if everything needs a big negotiation.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Whilst understanding your view, were you aware when you joined the industry that you didn't have to work on any of the 365/6 days of the year ?
route:oxford
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Depends on where you look.
Thanks to the considerable investment in Railways since Labour lost No10, Oxford and Bicester are now enjoying their best Boxing Day service ever with a service every 30 minutes to/from London.
Hmmm. Say I have a return portion of a London to Manchester Anytime Return costing £332 with an expiry date of, say, 7th January are you saying I wouldn't be allowed to travel?
What a load of rubbish. The level of service for boxing day is specified in the franchise. The franchise is specified by the Department of Transport.
Yes but they are not going to. Railways are loss making so running services on an extra day is not going to make a profit so the TOC won't run them. If the government want them they will have to specify them in the franchise and accept they will get slightly less in franchise payments.
dk1
Veteran Member
Whilst understanding your view, were you aware when you joined the industry that you didn't have to work on any of the 365/6 days of the year ?
They get me for 363/4 of those & it's an equal partnership both sides should be grateful for. The other two are most definatley all mine
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
I know of one TOC who won't do anything which is not specified in the Franchise, as it is regarded as a contract between DFT and TOC. After all, especially if it's a money loser.
dk1
Veteran Member
I adhere to my contract & so will my employer. 25th & 26th December belong to me.
EM2
Established Member
If they have staff to run them.
If they have stock to run them, bearing mind that extra mileage will bring forward exams and servicing, and so will knock on to the service on other days.
dk1
Veteran Member
And good luck to those that do. At Norwich GA have seven volunteers for tonight all on double time & a day in lieu. If that's your bag &/or the money is important go for it.
EM2
Established Member
Because it does. You have a Government department that specify a service pattern. You have an operating company that pay to be allowed to operate that service pattern, lease stock from a rolling stock owner to run it, and manage a unionised workforce to operate it all.
How do you suggest that that is all managed without negotiation?
dk1
Veteran Member
Because it does.
Judging by the various T3s on this map https://traksy.uk/live/M+37+ASHFKY everything apart from platforms 4 5 and 6 are closed. The only way onto the up side of hs1 from the station looks like it goes via the closed lines. Getting a couple of empty stock moves to go up the down line to Charing crossovers may be a lot easier to do than a regular train later in the day.
It may also have been the plan to close more of the station at the point when the service was planned. the Eurostar services would have run anyway with just a cancelled stop at Ashford so putting the Ashford stop back in isnt too hardr to do at the last minute. adding in extra stock and crew to run the southeastern trains the extra distance might prove a lot harder.
syorksdeano
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It's a swings and roundabout situation. I'm only a passenger but I travel around the country. Whilst I'm annoyed I can't collect my child who lives 80+ miles away from me because no trains are running, would I like to be sat on a replacement bus for 8-9 weekends or let them close the line and get the work done in a few days.
I know which I would prefer.
Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
I know which I would prefer.
Sent from my SM-T555 using Tapatalk
The BBC have been running an awful anti rail campaign this Christmas. Everybody knows that in general, there are two railfree days per year, although there are some exceptions. Usually, there is plenty of prior notice and such reporting just brings out the moaning that this nation wins gold medals in truckloads.
By all means have a sensible debate as to what could be achieved in future years but take into account that this will come at additional cost to the government.
By all means have a sensible debate as to what could be achieved in future years but take into account that this will come at additional cost to the government.
Envy123
Member
I guess I'm lucky that no-one in my household needs to work on Boxing Day now, but last year, my mother needed to do it as part of her contract. She wouldn't have been able to show up if we lived in an area without the tube.
Robertj21a
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It's only in fairly recent years that many bus services have operated on Boxing Day, now they're incredibly busy. No doubt the trains will have to follow before too long.
The quality of BBC reporting on this gets worse every year. They are giving the impression that there are no boxing day trains because the whole network is shut due to engineering works which is simply not the case. And why do they insist on showing the footage from Finsbury Park from two years ago - that was on overrun after boxing day which has nothing to do with provision of boxing day services.
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