Busaholic
Veteran Member
- Joined
- 7 Jun 2014
- Messages
- 14,112
I managed to pick the Top 5, and I know very little about railways compared to most on here. Not sure what that says about the poll!
My bad.
I'm bemused by the level of support for Woodhead. What - exactly - does it offer?
Bit disappointed it's all over in 24 hours - what was the hurry? Didn't get to vote!
I'm bemused by the level of support for Woodhead. What - exactly - does it offer?
just out of interest, was Tom Fraser responsible for the first wave of closures under the Wilson government ?
Including the S & D stating "that he was powerless to overrule the decision of the previous minister"
no surprises here - Isn't hindsight wonderfully 20:20?.
Yes, apart from all of those people at the time who pointed out to the Establishment that a number of these closures were a bad idea, yes, hindsight, 20:20 vision, yada, yada ....
no surprises here - Isn't hindsight wonderfully 20:20?
I still don't understand the criteria used to asses what is the worst? Gut feeling? local bias? Against what are we judging the decision? We are projecting our position in 21st century Britain back 30/40/50 years to a different time and a different Britain politically, economically and socially. The people making the decisions then didn't have a crystal ball to see how our society would change and how what seemed to be redundant assets then might be needed now.
Even if they did the majority of the lines listed about rightly closed on economic grounds alone.
Whoops, I didn't see you could only vote for 5. I picked ten.
Not sure what this poll proves other than bringing up well rehearsed opinions and conspiracy theories. The majority of these lines won't be reopened and I would rather we look forward than back.
Woodhead should be in the top 3.
it was closed in 1981 so shouldn't be included in the poll
Looking into the present day, from Barnstaple, there are six double decker buses an hour to Braunton, of which three continue to Ilfracombe. I think it would be a popular service if the towns still retained their rail link
The Woodhead route was electrified and rebuilt for freight traffic - the loss of that effectively condemned it in the end (not worth renewing the electrical equipment for the traffic that remained), together with it's poor connectivity at the Sheffield end for passenger purposes.
The OP mentions "the axe" but it doesn't mention who's axe, so thres no reason not to include it
I'm bemused by the level of support for Woodhead. What - exactly - does it offer?
I would have thought the Exeter - Plymouth via Okehampton route would have been higher up on the list.
no surprises here - Isn't hindsight wonderfully 20:20?
I still don't understand the criteria used to asses what is the worst? Gut feeling? local bias? Against what are we judging the decision? We are projecting our position in 21st century Britain back 30/40/50 years to a different time and a different Britain politically, economically and socially. The people making the decisions then didn't have a crystal ball to see how our society would change and how what seemed to be redundant assets then might be needed now.
Even if they did the majority of the lines listed about rightly closed on economic grounds alone.
the Establishment
For the record, Beeching never proposed Woodhead for closure. In fact, he selected for further development.
Government incompetence and BR mismanagement saw to that one.
When the coal was declining in the 1980s (for rather well documented reasons…), the need for a “spare” line from South Yorkshire to Greater Manchester became harder to justify.
There's always someone to say that something is a bad move. 9 times out of 10 they're wrong, but 1 time out of 10 they're right. Doesn't mean you should listen to them.
And do you have any basis for that ratio ?
Why shouldn't we have listened to those whose communities relied on the railway, rather than an Establishment that at worst had a massive conflict of interest (Marples) or at best had a naive belief that motor transport would solve all of the country's transport issues ?
The ratio isn't important, the fable of the boy who cried wolf is.
The OP askes "Which of these were the worst closures implemented by Beeching, Marsh and Castle? " - I'd respectfully suggest that something which closed in the 1980s doesn't really fit that definition?
I seem to have stumbled into an episode of "Tales of the Unexpected" since this peculiar reference has no relevance to anything on the forum.
I think the point is that, whenever the Government makes any decision, there's almost always someone who'll stand up and say that decision is wrong (Just like the mythical boy always crying wolf). If the Government stopped whenever someone said what they were doing is wrong, then the Government would basically never do anything at all!
Yes, apart from all of those people at the time who pointed out to the Establishment that a number of these closures were a bad idea, yes, hindsight, 20:20 vision, yada, yada ....
I am not in any way saying that mistakes were not made. However some of those lines listed above are basket cases in the extreme and deserved to be closed.
Apart from some spotterish nostalgia what point would there be for say the Somerset and Dorset line today?