The Bag Tax

[bb21]

The exemption list for charging in Wales is well stuck to by retailers, Mcdonalds won't charge you for a bag if it just contains "Wholly or partially unwrapped food".

Not in my experience, twice now in McDonald's, once in Cardiff, once in Swansea.

Not sure whether they expected me to carry burgers, nuggets, drinks and ice-cream all in my two hands. :roll:

 

[Tetchytyke]

Have any of the forum members ever brought live fish home from the supermarket in a carrier bag....and if so, what were the fish in question?

Dunno about forum members, but some brainiac had a carrier bag full of crabs on the T&W Metro last week.

They escaped

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...riage-overrun-crustaceans-spill-platform.html

 

[northwichcat]

What happens when you buy several items in a department store, e.g. some clothes, (unwrapped), some shoes, and some household hardware item (also unwrapped). Are you expected to carry separate bags with you to keep the unwrapped items apart? Or will the stores find some way of protecting different goods from transit damage in whatever bags the customer brings with them. If it gets too difficult, then the stores' efforts to encourage impulse buys will be hampered, - no bad thing in my mind but they wouldn't see it that way.

You could say M&S had the right approach. For food you needed to bring your own bags unless you want to be charged but for clothes and other items they'll give you free bags. (Not that I ever purchase food from M&S.)
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Dunno about forum members, but some brainiac had a carrier bag full of crabs on the T&W Metro last week.

They escaped

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...riage-overrun-crustaceans-spill-platform.html

I'm not clicking through to the Daily Mail site but surely they didn't think the bag was so strong the live crabs couldn't cut their way out!

That's presuming it wasn't one of the Tyne & Wear Metro passengers with an STD. :roll:

 

[Bevan Price]

I get far more waste plastic per month in the form of the infernal charity bags shoved through my letterbox than I get in the form of at least one year's visits to supermarkets / shops.

Charities must be deluded if they think that every home can fill two or three of their bags each week - why are they not being taxed, or at least compelled to coordinate collections such that no house receives more than 2 or 3 charity collection bags each year ?

 

[Kite159]

I've been around several shops in the past couple days, the local Tesco has signs up everywhere for the new charge and are giving away a free bag for life. Sainsburys has signs up, and the local Asda has nothing to warn customers that come monday they will have to pay 5p for a rubbish bag which falls to pieces easier than a diva.

Brian, the trick I've found with the Burger King in Cardiff is to offer to use your own bag, suddenly they change their mind and give you a free bag.

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Personally I would have preferred the 5p charge to be classed as a tax and all 5p gets passed back to the government, to be used to fund various activities, rather than leaving it up to retailers to donate "part" of the revenue to 'good causes'.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I get far more waste plastic per month in the form of the infernal charity bags shoved through my letterbox than I get in the form of at least one year's visits to supermarkets / shops.

Charities must be deluded if they think that every home can fill two or three of their bags each week - why are they not being taxed, or at least compelled to coordinate collections such that no house receives more than 2 or 3 charity collection bags each year ?

I agree. What makes it worse is that most of the time they never bother to come an collect. We live on a narrow road and obviously the van drivers don't feel they can fit down it.

Most of them are pretty scammy anyway - private companies that donate a small fixed amount to the charity (which often you have never heard of) per tonne of clothing received.

 

[Zoidberg]

I get far more waste plastic per month in the form of the infernal charity bags shoved through my letterbox than I get in the form of at least one year's visits to supermarkets / shops.

...

Because of this, I have not bought a bin bag for years and have quite a supply of charity bags.

I used to leave out the unused bags on collection day but gave up when they did not get collected.

 

[headshot119]

This will hit the poorest more than the richest.
Some people must be on the breadline already may be pushed off.
My Mum got carrier bags herself, 40 for a pound.
Best we could get. They are in Poundworld and called 'Handy Bags' and are similar to shop bags.

So you got them half price then! Not that big a saving, I personally think you're making a massive fuss about it.

Germany charge 15c extra for plastic bottles for example, and that doesn't break the bank either.

Not in my experience, twice now in McDonald's, once in Cardiff, once in Swansea.

Not sure whether they expected me to carry burgers, nuggets, drinks and ice-cream all in my two hands. :roll:

Burgers and Chicken Nuggest don't count as "Wholly or Partially Wrapped" if they come wrapped in the paper, or sealed in a box. If you say you don't want to pay for a bag they'll hand you everything separate, and put chips and similar into a very small bag. (Or should do it's there company policy so someone I know tells me)

 

[DarloRich]

I get far more waste plastic per month in the form of the infernal charity bags shoved through my letterbox than I get in the form of at least one year's visits to supermarkets / shops.

Charities must be deluded if they think that every home can fill two or three of their bags each week - why are they not being taxed, or at least compelled to coordinate collections such that no house receives more than 2 or 3 charity collection bags each year ?

just do what i do if it annoys you so much: use them as bin bags!

 

[bb21]

Burgers and Chicken Nuggest don't count as "Wholly or Partially Wrapped" if they come wrapped in the paper, or sealed in a box. If you say you don't want to pay for a bag they'll hand you everything separate, and put chips and similar into a very small bag. (Or should do it's there company policy so someone I know tells me)

So what comes as without wrapping then in McDonald's? Even fries come in a container.

 

[Jonfun]

To be fair to Tescos, they have upped the quality of their bags, and although I'd still question whether they are worth 5p, they're significantly better than the translucent ones which could accommodate about one packet of crisps in each such that you needed five or six just for a quick shop of the essentials, and tore in a light breeze.

I still think if we're having to pay for bags they should be of a quality more like the bag for life types you see. I don't think that making the customer pay for something that you have to double bag just to carry a 2L bottle of Coke in is fair, really.

 

[krus_aragon]

So what comes as without wrapping then in McDonald's? Even fries come in a container.

The fries are in an open container, so aren't wholly wrapped.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So you got them half price then! Not that big a saving, I personally think you're making a massive fuss about it.

Germany charge 15c extra for plastic bottles for example, and that doesn't break the bank either.

That is a returnable deposit, isn't it?

Burgers and Chicken Nuggest don't count as "Wholly or Partially Wrapped" if they come wrapped in the paper, or sealed in a box. If you say you don't want to pay for a bag they'll hand you everything separate, and put chips and similar into a very small bag. (Or should do it's there company policy so someone I know tells me)

I must admit that seems a silly approach on the part of the Welsh Government (as I'm not convinced that those paper McD bags are what the whole thing is aimed at), but again it's hardly as if it breaks the bank, nor is it unduly inconvenient provided items are priced such that they don't end up with .05 on the end most of the time once the bag is added.
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I still think if we're having to pay for bags they should be of a quality more like the bag for life types you see. I don't think that making the customer pay for something that you have to double bag just to carry a 2L bottle of Coke in is fair, really.

Then buy a Bag for Life. They won't go away, and I will continue to buy them because the free/5p ones are rubbish. Thus nothing changes for me.

 

[northwichcat]

I still think if we're having to pay for bags they should be of a quality more like the bag for life types you see. I don't think that making the customer pay for something that you have to double bag just to carry a 2L bottle of Coke in is fair, really.

You pay for them one way or another. Supermarkets which give out free bags charge something like 1p more than they need to on certain items to recoup the cost of supplying the plastic bags.

In the 90s some supermarkets did produce bags which are as strong as some of the current 'Bag for Life' bags but as a smaller carrier bag. In the North Booths, Hanburys and Kwiksave were among the Supermarkets which did. Obviously two of those don't exist now.

 

[Zoidberg]

...

In the 90s some supermarkets did produce bags which are as strong as some of the current 'Bag for Life' bags but as a smaller carrier bag. In the North Booths, Hanburys and Kwiksave were among the Supermarkets which did. Obviously two of those don't exist now.

Co-incidentally, I came across a Gateway carrier bag in the garage yesterday. It's probably of late 80s vintage, would have been free and it's certainly a lot more robust than what one gets from supermarkets these days.

 

[krus_aragon]

I must admit that seems a silly approach on the part of the Welsh Government (as I'm not convinced that those paper McD bags are what the whole thing is aimed at), but again it's hardly as if it breaks the bank, nor is it unduly inconvenient provided items are priced such that they don't end up with .05 on the end most of the time once the bag is added.

I think they may have been influenced by the policy in the Republic of Ireland, introduced some time earlier. They introduced a charge/tax on plastic bags, and the majority of retailers switched to handing out disposable paper bags instead. The paper bags used by Primark customers are an example of this (as Primark was founded in Ireland, as Penneys).

 

[bb21]

The fries are in an open container, so aren't wholly wrapped.

What a load of nonsense. (Not at you btw, but the policy.)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I remember watching an ecological programme not so long ago that made reference to the amount of plastic carrier bags that are in the sea around the coast of Britain and of dangers to marine wildlife ensuant from same.

 

[northwichcat]

I remember watching an ecological programme not so long ago that made reference to the amount of plastic carrier bags that are in the sea around the coast of Britain and of dangers to marine wildlife ensuant from same.

There was a report on BBC News last week where they were going on the dangers to sea life from plastics which haven't been disposed of properly. They also went on to say sea life consume very small fragments of plastic bags which are designed as biodegradable which then enters the food chain.

While the manager of a leading plastics manufacturer who appeared on the report was defending his own industry he made some valid points in that properly disposed of plastics shouldn't finish up in the sea in the first place.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think they may have been influenced by the policy in the Republic of Ireland, introduced some time earlier. They introduced a charge/tax on plastic bags, and the majority of retailers switched to handing out disposable paper bags instead. The paper bags used by Primark customers are an example of this (as Primark was founded in Ireland, as Penneys).

Are paper bags as much of an issue, though? They are easily torn (for a caught animal to escape), are biodegradable and are fully and easily recyclable.
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What a load of nonsense. (Not at you btw, but the policy.)

Quite.

If you wanted to get McD's to reduce waste, they could start by using re-usable containers for food that is eaten in. Cups would be the easiest place to start, but it would be possible for all other items as well - particularly given that much of their product range is now made to order rather than left sitting there in boxes for ages.

Though they have improved a lot - at least there is no longer polystyrene.

 

[krus_aragon]

Are paper bags as much of an issue, though? They are easily torn (for a caught animal to escape), are biodegradable and are fully and easily recyclable.

Disposal costs (financial, ecological) are quite low, but you've still got the costs of producing all those bags.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disposal costs (financial, ecological) are quite low, but you've still got the costs of producing all those bags.

The ecological costs you mean? As the financial costs are down to the retailer as to how they wish to fund them.

 

[WestCoast]

Germany charge 15c extra for plastic bottles for example, and that doesn't break the bank either.

Indeed, from memory German law mandates a 8c deposit for small glass bottles, 15c deposit for some types of plastic bottle and 25c deposit for cans and other types of plastic bottle. Works pretty well actually. There are a few exceptions, like wines and spirits.

You return the bottles to a shop's automatic collection machines or a specialist drinks market, where I believe they are returned to the brewer/producer for recycling/reuse. You get a credit note which you can get money off the next purchase with or cash. One often sees people, including the homeless, collecting bottles from bins/streets/parks as it can buy them food for the day.

 

[Tommy1581]

In regards to the McDonald's paper bags.

When I order food for three people, 7 items on average, to takeaway. After standing for a stupid amount of time waiting for the food, they put all the food in a bag without handles then they must expect me to carry that and 3x drinks when I need spare hand to hold my bus ticket and to press the button to cross the road, or even worse carry shopping.

I've only got two hands! Maybe I should ask for a bag with handles after they've put my food into a small bag, to avoid the 5p charge...!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've only got two hands! Maybe I should ask for a bag with handles after they've put my food into a small bag, to avoid the 5p charge...!

Or just pay 5p. It is hardly going to break the bank when you've spent over a tenner on fast food. Its purpose is not to stop you using bags (if it was they would be banned outright), it's to make you use them only when you really need them, and to re-use them so far as feasible.

 

[Yew]

I love how democratic the process of introducing this ridiculous rule was..

 

[krus_aragon]

The ecological costs you mean? As the financial costs are down to the retailer as to how they wish to fund them.

The financial cost I was alluding to was the cost in collection, transport, sorting, recycling etc. of all the paper bags. (Typically a local council responsibility.)

 

[meridian2]

I think it's a good idea and 5p is so miniscule a value, it hardly justifies it being called a 'tax'.

Plastic bags have been proven to enter the food chain where they cause mass havoc and if we are encouraged to do more, then I agree with the decision.

Not every 'tax' is a bane.

 

[Bevan Price]

just do what i do if it annoys you so much: use them as bin bags!

No bin bags used in our council area. I use a few per year for shredded waste paper, but the others just go to landfill, as they are mostly too thin & fragile to use for shopping or any other useful purpose, and the so-called charities never collect their unused bags. .

 

[AM9]

I love how democratic the process of introducing this ridiculous rule was..

What would you propose, a referendum?