The decline of town centres

[Ken H]

You have to be careful with these stats. Many of these places will be student towns, or places with low car ownership or have some particular characteristic that means cycling has an unusual advantage. The stats may also only count commute trips or trips to the centre.

you also need somewhere flattish. Its no accident that places like Cambridge and York are cycle meccas and Bradford isnt.

 

[route101]

If only there were a city-centre Lidl! I'd love to be able to shop at one. But they're out on the periphery, and it would mean a walk and then a bus-ride out and a taxi back.

Theres one in Glasgow City Centre , but does not have any promotional products and less choice compared to bigger lidls

 

[radamfi]

you also need somewhere flattish. Its no accident that places like Cambridge and York are cycle meccas and Bradford isnt.

But now we have electric bikes hills can no longer be used as an excuse not to cycle.

 

[Bletchleyite]

you also need somewhere flattish. Its no accident that places like Cambridge and York are cycle meccas and Bradford isnt.

MK is quite hilly in places and there is still a lot of cycling, albeit not quite as much as you'd get if it was flat.

It isn't Sheffield (which wouldn't be a cycling city if you banned cars) but it isn't flat either.

 

[WelshBluebird]

you also need somewhere flattish. Its no accident that places like Cambridge and York are cycle meccas and Bradford isnt.

Bristol has a fair amount of cycling and I'd hardly call that a flat city. Same with Bath.

But now we have electric bikes hills can no longer be used as an excuse not to cycle.

You do have to buy them though, and they are more expensive than normal bikes.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

MK is quite hilly in places and there is still a lot of cycling, albeit not quite as much as you'd get if it was flat.

It isn't Sheffield (which wouldn't be a cycling city if you banned cars) but it isn't flat either.

I always found the problem cycling round MK wasn't that the city itself was a bit hilly... what was a problem was that the redways are twice as hilly as the rest of the city due to all the ups and downs to get over/ under the roads!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always found the problem cycling round MK wasn't that the city itself was a bit hilly... what was a problem was that the redways are twice as hilly as the rest of the city due to all the ups and downs to get over/ under the roads!

Yes, that is a nuisance! FWIW, the Milton Keynes Marathon, which is run mostly on the Redways, is one of the hillier ones as a result!

 

[underbank]

But now we have electric bikes hills can no longer be used as an excuse not to cycle.

They're expensive and some towns are VERY hilly!

 

[BRX]

They're expensive and some towns are VERY hilly!

Cheaper than running a car though.

 

[radamfi]

They're expensive and some towns are VERY hilly!

The Dutch spend up to 1000 euros for a regular (not electric) utility bike. There are several electric bikes in Decathlon or Halfords for less than that. I've got a Dutch electric bike which is supposedly low powered but easily gets me up any hill up to 12% gradient which covers the vast majority of hills you would likely encounter in British urban areas.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Dutch spend up to 1000 euros for a regular (not electric) utility bike. There are several electric bikes in Decathlon or Halfords for less than that. I've got a Dutch electric bike which is supposedly low powered but easily gets me up any hill up to 12% gradient which covers the vast majority of hills you would likely encounter in British urban areas.

To be fair, you highlight one of the big issues with cycling takeup in the UK here - people spend £80 on a mountain bike from Halfords and expect it to be any good, and it then puts them off cycling for good, because such bikes are heavy and have cheap components that soon wear out, not to mention them being uncomfortable to ride.

Decathlon do some very good city hybrids, but you have to be willing to spend a couple of hundred at least.

 

[bramling]

To be fair, you highlight one of the big issues with cycling takeup in the UK here - people spend £80 on a mountain bike from Halfords and expect it to be any good, and it then puts them off cycling for good, because such bikes are heavy and have cheap components that soon wear out, not to mention them being uncomfortable to ride.

Therein lies a problem.

Invest in a decent bike, and you run the risk of losing your investment if (1) it gets written off thanks to a careless vehicle driver - no matter how well insured or how far one pursues it the likelihood is you will still end up out of pocket, or (2) it's attractive to thieves.

The second of those two can be mitigated against by investing in a folding bike, which is probably the best solution for city commuting, as it removes the issue of storage, and introduces the possibility of combining with rail without having the hassle and bother of taking a full-size bike on a train, which of course at certain times is prohibited, but even at quieter times can be a pain. The snag with a folding bike is that it's heavy to carry more than a minimal distance, hence why it's preferable to wheel it pretty much everywhere if possible even just something like the length of a station platform - however even this seems to offend some people!

 

[radamfi]

Bike theft is also a serious problem in the Netherlands, but they have secure parking available at stations and town centres where you have to present the matching parking ticket to the attendant when you take the bike from the premises. The Dutch charge for bike carriage which led to a temporary craze for folding bikes, but as instant bike hire at stations was dramatically increased, people now generally hire at the other end rather than using folding bikes.

 

[underbank]

Cheaper than running a car though.

You have to also factor in the other transport costs you'd incur if you didn't have a car, such as taxis, buses, trains, home delivery costs, etc. In areas of poor public transport, your taxi bill is going to huge. The additional travel time may also mean you have to reduce your working hours, so it may also cause lower income.

 

[BRX]

You have to also factor in the other transport costs you'd incur if you didn't have a car, such as taxis, buses, trains, home delivery costs, etc. In areas of poor public transport, your taxi bill is going to huge. The additional travel time may also mean you have to reduce your working hours, so it may also cause lower income.

Yes, in areas with poor public transport, it is difficult and expensive to get by without a car. I think this is stating the obvious. I'm not sure what point you're making.

In areas with decent public transport, a bike, possibly an electric one, can be a better and cheaper option for ownership than a car. The notion of electric bikes was introduced in response to the suggestion that bikes only made sense in flat places.