The future of Edinburgh to Biggar Bus Services

[Auld reekie]

Threatened Dumfries to Edinburgh bus route secures funding lifeline https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotland-62236563
Good news.

A "vital link" bus service facing the threat of removal in August has secured a funding extension lifeline.

It will allow the Dumfries to Edinburgh 101/102 service to run until the end of March next year.

It follows protests held at stops along the route from campaigners seeking its retention.

They said that their battle would now continue in order to ensure the service would have a long-term future beyond early 2023.

The 101/102 service runs between south west Scotland and the capital, and serves a number of towns and villages including West Linton, Biggar and Moffat.

However, it faced removal when a contract with Stagecoach West Scotland ends on 13 August.

The local authorities and other bodies who funded it blamed the situation on a sharp rise in proposed running costs.

Stagecoach said the financial environment and travel patterns were "completely different" from the last time the service was tendered in 2018.

The potential removal saw an online petition gather thousands of signatures and a demonstration held along the route.

In a joint statement, Scottish Borders Council (SBC) and transport bodies SWestrans and Strathclyde Partnership for Transport confirmed an agreement had been reached.

It said it would preserve the service until 31 March next year with further talks planned to secure the long-term future of bus services to communities on the route.

"The three partners have agreed to fund the increased cost of the service for the remainder of financial year 2022/23," it said.

"SWestrans, SBC and SPT would like to thank, individual correspondents, the communities along the route, and elected representatives for their work to raise awareness of the importance of bus services in rural areas.

"Invitations to tender and discussions with communities for longer term solutions for the route will be undertaken during the autumn."

Mod note: please remember to add a quote as well as posting links from external sources.

 

[overthewater]

A bus Survey recently took place, Full details can be seen here: https://www.56degreeinsight.com/101-102-bus-survey

SPT is putting out tender ideas shortly for the 101. It seems that most ideas would have 2 less journeys overall.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

A bus Survey recently took place, Full details can be seen here: https://www.56degreeinsight.com/101-102-bus-survey

SPT is putting out tender ideas shortly for the 101. It seems that most ideas would have 2 less journeys overall.

I mean parts of this survey are pretty obvious results. Positive impact if it were increased in frequency, and negative if it were reduced.

I’ve said before a later journey from Edinburgh definitely has potential, and I think if they adopted a consistent frequency then it may help to attract more users. This will never happen but a 2 hourly 101 from Edinburgh to Biggar via Penicuik and then a 2 hourly 102 from Edinburgh to Biggar omitting Penicuik (combined to run hourly) certainly would have the potential to attract more users, with a handful of buses each day running to/from Dumfries. I think if they were to stop using the Bus Station in Edinburgh as well that’s a cost that could be avoided. It would be fine terminating on Regent Road. The thing is that really has potential and I think it’d be worth a go, but sadly a number of current factors such as costs and the national driver shortages means it would be unlikely for sometime yet.

New buses while everybody would like those, unless the local authorities are going to buy them (which in the current climate will never happen) then that’s just dreamland stuff. Coaches as has been said before are not suited to the route so it would likely need to be something on the lines of E200mmc’s.

 

[InOban]

Can someone remind me why coaches aren't suitable? Given that modern coaches are accessible, and the route is largely on open roads, including the M74 after Abington, I would have thought that coaches are essential. In Argyll the (4)23 between Ardrishaig and Oban is operated by a coach while the 918 from Oban to Fort William may be a coach bookable through Citylink but is in part a school bus service.

Given Scottish Government policy to encourage the use of public transport and to leave our cars at home it is surely necessary to extend the subsidy to train services to coach routes crossing LA boundaries where there is no direct train. This would not only include the Edinburgh to Dumfries service but also, for example, Oban / Fort William to Dundee (and a much more frequent service between Oban and FW /Inverness )
.

 

[computerSaysNo]

A bus Survey recently took place, Full details can be seen here: https://www.56degreeinsight.com/101-102-bus-survey

Interesting reading, thanks for posting.

New buses while everybody would like those, unless the local authorities are going to buy them (which in the current climate will never happen) then that’s just dreamland stuff. Coaches as has been said before are not suited to the route so it would likely need to be something on the lines of E200mmc’s.

Can someone remind me why coaches aren't suitable? Given that modern coaches are accessible, and the route is
largely on open roads, including the M74 after Abington, I would have thought that coaches are essential.

I would say step-enterance coaches are less suitable due to the fact that a fair proportion of users are on the older side and are more likely to struggle with steps and stairs. I wouldn't say they are completely unsuitable though. I've seen the service operated by an Elite i on at least one occasion so it can be done.
I think the issue with comfort at the moment may come from the use of standard E300s on the route (with their standard or low-back seats) instead of the Scanias with the nicer (coach) seating. Ideally all services would be operated with a Scania but I can fully understand why Stagecoach may decide to send the nicer vehicles elsewhere where they can be used to bring in more money.
If coaches were insisted upon then I think something like a medium-length Elite/B11R would be best, I imagine anything bigger would be too large. I imagine a coach would be more expensive to operate though than for example an E300.

 

[route101]

Always wondered why this route does not get coaches. Did some passengers kick up a fuss?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Always wondered why this route does not get coaches. Did some passengers kick up fuss?

I think it’s multiple reasons to be honest but the two standout ones are that coaches are probably more expensive to run (on what is a loss making route) and they are less accessible on a route that is often used by those that are, shall we say, more senior; unless you ordered something like Panther LE’s.

 

[Mwanesh]

Remember the x74 furore when the Elite I came. Coaches are a no on some routes.

 

[route101]

Remember the x74 furore when the Elite I came. Coaches are a no on some routes.

What did the X74 use before elites?

 

[Mwanesh]

I think they used Plaxton Panthers. Someone may correct me.

 

[duncanp]

A new operator has been found for the 101 bus service between Edinburgh and Dumfries.

New operator found for Dumfries to Edinburgh bus service

If approved the company will take over the running of the Dumfries to Edinburgh service in April.

www.bbc.co.uk

New operator found for Dumfries to Edinburgh bus service​

A new operator has been found for a bus service it was feared could cease running between Dumfries and Edinburgh.
Lockerbie-based Houston's Coaches is being recommended to take over operating the 101/102 service.
The move will be considered at Strathclyde Passenger Transport's operations committee on Friday.
If agreed, it would see a three-year contract awarded - with an optional two-year extension - at a cost of £385,000-a-year.
The Dumfries to Edinburgh service - which was run by Stagecoach - looked set to be removed in August last year before funding was found to run until the end of March this year.

However, none of the tenders initially submitted to operate it longer term was considered best value and a new effort to find a "sustainable and affordable solution" was started.
It now appears to have been successful.
The service - which runs between south west Scotland and the capital - serves a large number of towns and villages including West Linton, Biggar and Moffat.

Fears of its removal prompted protests along the length of the route.
The new deal will need the approval of SPT and its partners SWestrans and Scottish Borders Council.
The current temporary contract is equivalent to £508,000-a-year which they all agreed was not sustainable in the long term.
SPT head of bus strategy and delivery Gordon Dickson said: "All funding partners of the 101/102 service are delighted to have found a solution to hopefully satisfy the users of this service, subject to all the required approvals from partners."
It will see some "small changes" to the service with a reduction in the number of services to "space journeys out better".
If approved the new provider would begin operations on 1 April.

 

[overthewater]

That is some good news, It looks like there will be a 1 journey removed from the middle of the day to cut costs. Its also unclear what type of bus will be used.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That is some good news, It looks like there will be a 1 journey removed from the middle of the day to cut costs. It’s also unclear what type of bus will be used.

Overall return journeys are down from 12 to 10, with 4 of those returns doing the full route. I suspect a completely revised timetable with a more consistent pattern is going to be brought in.

If Houston’s are awarded this revised contract, I hope it isn’t the Solos that are used but they are the main bus in their fleet after all. Unless of course new dealer stock or some second hand vehicles are brought in?

It will be interesting to see how Biggar outstation works in this plan as well.

 

[computerSaysNo]

If Houston’s are awarded this revised contract, I hope it isn’t the Solo’s that are used but they are the main part of the fleet after all. Unless of course new dealer stock or some second hand vehicles are brought in?

It will be interesting to see how Biggar outstation works in this plan as well.

I was thinking this too. A significant number of services only operate between Edinburgh and Biggar, and most probably need something bigger than a Solo to operate. Those from Biggar southwards are probably fine with a Solo.
Do Houston's operate any deckers? They could probably cut the Biggars to every hour and a half and get away with it if they used deckers. Then again I'm not sure if the increased fuel usage would outweigh any savings on drivers?

 

[M803UYA]

I was thinking this too. A significant number of services only operate between EdinbuIt rgh and Biggar, and most probably need something bigger than a Solo to operate. Those from Biggar southwards are probably fine with a Solo.
Do Houston's operate any deckers? They could probably cut the Biggars to every hour and a half and get away with it if they used deckers. Then again I'm not sure if the increased fuel usage would outweigh any savings on drivers?

It depends on the tender requirements, usually when a contract is tendered there is a timetable showing journeys required under the tender. At the minimum, that's what the operator is contracted to run.

 

[chiltern trev]

On the subject of bus seats, are the Stagecoach buses E300 or E200 and what type of seats?

Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire bought a batch of MAN E300 around 09/08/58/59 reg with high back bus seats for the longer routes out of Carlisle.
They also bought 2 X 64 reg ADL E300 with coach type seats for the 685 Carlisle Newcastle.

So surely not difficult to get better seats in an E300 or E200.
And look at the E300 MMCs Border Buses use on the X95 Carlisle Galashiels Edinburgh - a bit more upmarket.

 

[computerSaysNo]

On the subject of bus seats, are the Stagecoach buses E300 or E200 and what type of seats?

Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancashire bought a batch of MAN E300 around 09/08/58/59 reg with high back bus seats for the longer routes out of Carlisle.
They also bought 2 X 64 reg ADL E300 with coach type seats for the 685 Carlisle Newcastle.

So surely not difficult to get better seats in an E300 or E200.
And look at the E300 MMCs Border Buses use on the X95 Carlisle Galashiels Edinburgh - a bit more upmarket.

The vehicles Stagecoach sometimes use on the 101/102 are E300s with the coach seats, the issue is Dumfries doesn't have enough of them and frequently sends out the standard E300s with the low-back seats - I assume this is what generates the most complaints.

 

[route101]

Last time I used the 101 it was a bog standard E300.

Not sure if a decker is suited to a long rural route.

 

[KGGXXXY]

I remember when I lived in Edinburgh when McEwans ran the route it was Mercedes Plaxton Beaver Breadvans just before Stagecoach took it on.

 

[DunsBus]

I remember when I lived in Edinburgh when McEwans ran the route it was Mercedes Plaxton Beaver Breadvans just before Stagecoach took it on.

McEwan's had a mix. As well as the aforementioned "breadvans" there were also two 02-plate Scania/Wright Solars.

 

[KGGXXXY]

McEwan's had a mix. As well as the aforementioned "breadvans" there were also two 02-plate Scania/Wright Solars.

Oh yeah forgot about them. They also had an old Irizar coach every now and again, but the few times I took the bus it was always the Plaxtons on duty.

 

[DunsBus]

oh yeah forgot about them, also had an old Irizar coach every now and again, the few times I took the bus it was always the Plaxtons on duty.

They also had a Scania 'decker, T399OWA which was named "the crowd shifter". It ran up from Dumfries to Edinburgh on Sunday nights as a 199 (my recollection is that it was used to get students to the Pollock Halls of Residence) and returned as a 100.

 

[overthewater]

Any news on the revised Timetable?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==

It looks like the service will change on 1st April which is a Saturday:

• PM0000008/580 Cancelled​

  WESTERN BUSES LIMITED
  Route: BIggar to West Linton
  Service number: 101_4 (102, 101, 101A, 102S, 101S)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 01 Apr 2023

• PM0000008/581 Cancelled​

  WESTERN BUSES LIMITED
  Route: West Linton to Edinburgh Bus Station, Edinburgh
  Service number: 101 (102, 101, 101A, 102S, 101S)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 01 Apr 2023

 

[Blindtraveler]

I would hope for maybe a couple of couches for the full-length runs and and something perhaps a little bigger than a solo for the short workings. And before anyone jumps.on me I know coaches have been tried before but honestly I think that's the answer, something comfortable for a lengthy journey

 

[JKP]

The Stuart’s/Borders Buses 91 services are the remnants of the long gone section of the 240 (think it was the 240) which was run by Central from Glasgow to Peebles. I seem to recall it was briefly brought back by First Glasgow for a short spell in the early 2000s but didn’t last long at all.

The idea of extending the 91 is certainly an interesting one. As I mentioned before, it would bring back a direct service from Lanark to Edinburgh which hasn’t been in existence for many decades. I don’t think there was ever a service which took this route via Biggar, West Linton etc. Previous services run by Central and/or Eastern Scottish I believe went either via Forth, West Calder and Sighthill or via Carnwath, the A70 and Juniper Green.

Alternatively you could always extend the Borders Buses 91 to Edinburgh which would give an alternative route to the X62 for folk going from Peebles into town. Not sure how the journey times would compare. Obviously just pure speculation at this stage. I suspect the 101A will probably continue in some form or another, whether it be Stagecoach or another operator picking it up. I can’t see there being any reprieve for the Dumfries - Biggar section unfortunately.

in 1986, Borders Regional Council let contracts for service 191 Peebles - Biggar - Lanark. This service was operated by various operators over the next few years including Nationwide Coaches of Lanark who also had a garage in Peebles and Stokes of Carstairs. BRC also let a contract for 103 Lanark - Biggar - Edinburgh. I can recall Wilson’s of Carnwath on this route possibly after they acquired Nationwide?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 22 Feb 2023 ==

Any news on the revised Timetable?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Feb 2023 ==

It looks like the service will change on 1st April which is a Saturday:

• PM0000008/580 Cancelled​

  WESTERN BUSES LIMITED
  Route: BIggar to West Linton
  Service number: 101_4 (102, 101, 101A, 102S, 101S)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 01 Apr 2023

• PM0000008/581 Cancelled​

  WESTERN BUSES LIMITED
  Route: West Linton to Edinburgh Bus Station, Edinburgh
  Service number: 101 (102, 101, 101A, 102S, 101S)
  Service type: Normal Stopping
  Effective date: 01 Apr 2023

Houston of Lockerbie is the new provider of the 101/102 assuming that Swestrans agree to pay their share of the subsidy. Low floor dual purpose vehicles would be ideal. Coaches are not suitable given wheelchair requirements on a route that frequently carries local passengers in Edinburgh itself.

One of the problems with the 101/102 and financial support is that City of Edinburgh Council makes no contribution and Midlothian only pay for the bus station departure charges at St Andrew Square. The other three authorities therefore are having to cover mileage costs in these two local authority areas.

 

[InOban]

Why would it carry passengers within Edinburgh?

And I thought that modern coaches have disabled access, although I don't know how it works. It would be a legal requirement.

 

[JKP]

Why would it carry passengers within Edinburgh?

And I thought that modern coaches have disabled access, although I don't know how it works. It would be a legal requirement.

The route certainly carries local passengers in Edinburgh in the evening in the Morningside area. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that it is also the only route from the Morningside area to/from Penicuik in the evening.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The route certainly carries local passengers in Edinburgh in the evening in the Morningside area. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think that it is also the only route from the Morningside area to/from Penicuik in the evening.

The only people who use the route entirely with Edinburgh are really those who have Entitlement passes. Those who travel between Edinburgh and Midlothian and vice versa are in one sense forced to due to Lothian’s cut of the 15/X15 from Penicuik. Previously it was the same as before, really just concessions only.

There’s no real reason for the City of Edinburgh Council to be paying anything for this route as it’s not aimed at users travelling solely within their area. The current set up between the other three authorities is fair as that’s where the main users are, albeit the percentage in contributions maybe needs to be addressed.

Some MCV Evoras on a B8RLE chassis are probably the best option. The smallest of the 3 chassis options would be best; 10.8m. Are these viable though? I doubt it.

 

[mb88]

I heard from a friend that Houston’s are recruiting drivers to be based at Biggar so presumably the outstation currently operated by Stagecoach is to be retained. Admittedly I can’t find anything online other than an advert for jobs with them in Lockerbie, but my friend claims someone he knows went for an interview there and there will definitely be drivers based in Biggar.

Hopefully the new timetable will be published in the next few weeks with it due to start on the 1st of April.

 

[Bedford OB]

The timetable is already up on Traveline.

LTS

www.travelinescotland.com