GusB
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The future of Royal Mail
- Thread starter Bletchleyite
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PupCuff
Member
It used to be a nightmare finding out someone had sent the parcel via Royal Mail when I lived in Liverpool.
If another courier (eg DPD) was used, you'd be able to track it through the system, it would give you a date and rough time at which it was planned to be delivered, and if this was not convenient and you knew you weren't going to be in, it gave you the option to reschedule the delivery, say, for the day after, which was your day off, or when you could work from home.
Royal Mail on the other hand, preferred the option of not pre-warning you on which day it would be delivered and instead having the deliveryperson load the parcel onto the van, drive all the way to your house, find you not in, write you a little card to say sorry we missed you, and drive the parcel back to the depot and unload it.
This meant either notifying them to redeliver (and all that will happen is that once again they would not tell you when they planned to do this), having the parcel sent to a Post Office, which will take howeverlong, or waiting 48 hours before being able to collect it from the Local Delivery Centre.
The Local Delivery Centre, indeed, was Local in the most remote sense of the word - in my case, a twenty minute walk to the station and two train rides away, and only open office hours, except on a Saturday, when if you got out of bed just as dawn broke you might make it to the depot before it shut. More than once I got there with 'sorry we missed you card' in hand, to be told, oh, it's not been brought back here, have you tried seeing if it was left with your neighbours?
Amazon can have a parcel with me the next day, even if that's a Sunday, their tracking system tells me when it's arrived at different points along the logistics journey, it tells me an approximate timeframe for the delivery and even pings up when the delivery driver is 7 or 8 stops away.
If another courier (eg DPD) was used, you'd be able to track it through the system, it would give you a date and rough time at which it was planned to be delivered, and if this was not convenient and you knew you weren't going to be in, it gave you the option to reschedule the delivery, say, for the day after, which was your day off, or when you could work from home.
Royal Mail on the other hand, preferred the option of not pre-warning you on which day it would be delivered and instead having the deliveryperson load the parcel onto the van, drive all the way to your house, find you not in, write you a little card to say sorry we missed you, and drive the parcel back to the depot and unload it.
This meant either notifying them to redeliver (and all that will happen is that once again they would not tell you when they planned to do this), having the parcel sent to a Post Office, which will take howeverlong, or waiting 48 hours before being able to collect it from the Local Delivery Centre.
The Local Delivery Centre, indeed, was Local in the most remote sense of the word - in my case, a twenty minute walk to the station and two train rides away, and only open office hours, except on a Saturday, when if you got out of bed just as dawn broke you might make it to the depot before it shut. More than once I got there with 'sorry we missed you card' in hand, to be told, oh, it's not been brought back here, have you tried seeing if it was left with your neighbours?
Amazon can have a parcel with me the next day, even if that's a Sunday, their tracking system tells me when it's arrived at different points along the logistics journey, it tells me an approximate timeframe for the delivery and even pings up when the delivery driver is 7 or 8 stops away.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
It showed up today, as predicted.
That would be fine but for one thing - having failed to bother delivering it on Saturday, their website in the evening offered me the option to redirect it to the local post office for collection instead, which I took...and was ignored. This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened, and indeed I made a formal complaint a while ago after a missed redelivery which had a snarky note written on the "we missed you" card about me having requested it, when in fact I had requested it be redelivered to the Post Office knowing I would be out, not my house.
They really are a disorganised shower. Very pleasant and cheery posties, but the organisation is just poorly-managed in the extreme (and I'm sure said posties and their Unions agree).
That would be fine but for one thing - having failed to bother delivering it on Saturday, their website in the evening offered me the option to redirect it to the local post office for collection instead, which I took...and was ignored. This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened, and indeed I made a formal complaint a while ago after a missed redelivery which had a snarky note written on the "we missed you" card about me having requested it, when in fact I had requested it be redelivered to the Post Office knowing I would be out, not my house.
They really are a disorganised shower. Very pleasant and cheery posties, but the organisation is just poorly-managed in the extreme (and I'm sure said posties and their Unions agree).
WelshBluebird
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It is a bit chicken and egg though.
For as long as Royal Mail continue to offer an inferior service for a higher cost compared to its competition, it will continue to make less money from parcels.
If they actually invested and provided a superior service, then maybe they would actually win back custom that has gone to companies like DPD and Hermes?
They certainly aren't going to improve by not doing anything whilst the competition improves even futher.
Vespa
Established Member
Royal Mail is hampered by its universal service obligation to deliver to every address for a uniform cost, which private companies are not obligated to do so indeed they will either jack up the price or give it Royal Mail to deliver if it's very remote and pocket the difference.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They also have a certain brand allegiance which they are chucking away by being a bit rubbish. If they sorted that out, that brand allegiance might bring people back.
The universal service obligation doesn't absolve them of being a rubbish parcel courier, though, that's more about letters.
Vespa
Established Member
Royal Mail don't just deliver letters, they also deliver packets and parcels this includes going to outlying Scottish islands or deepest Wales...
The USO was originally a guarantee by law in exchange for Postal monopoly, we've lost the monopoly and still obligated to carry out the USO, while private companies cherry pick the bits they want.
If you really want Royal Mail to move forward you either ditch the USO or pay more, you can't have both.
Mcr Warrior
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Of course, some companies impose restrictions, or charge extra for delivery to certain outlying postcode areas.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I wouldn't ditch it, but I'd suggest that if it is felt that the USO is something that the UK should have, then it should be subsidised from general taxation and not cause a competitive disadvantage to RM. That said, I'm sure it's also a benefit to them as they have exclusivity on some aspects of letter post to go with it.
Indeed, perhaps he was feeling generous.
Absolutely spot on.
The problem is, some people want things now, without giving any consideration to reasonable factors which might get in the way of that, and any company which fails to provide anything other than 100% perfection is deemed incompetent and outdated.
WelshBluebird
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Except we aren't asking for perfection.
We are asking why it is acceptable that Royal Mail have a tracking system that is so vastly inferior to their competitors.
What use is the example that gswindale gave? Telling the customer that "tracking information only available once we've attempted delivery"? It is just bloody pointless!
I really don't see how asking for an improvement is anything like asking for "perfection" or is at all unreasonable considering what Royal Mail's competitors offer in terms of tracking.
This whole discussion actually reminds me of conversations around banking right now. Hear me out here.
Older more traditional banks offer a much more "clunky" experience. Longer waits, less transparency, etc. But have more trust from most of the population, and if you are especially "needy" (for lack of a better word) then are probably the best choice.
Newer startup fintech banks offer a more refined experience. Generally quicker (e.g. Monzo who now actually give you access to your salary the day before if your employer uses faster payments as they can see the money will be there from the previous afternoon I believe) and have greater transparency (when Curve had an outage last weekend caused by one of their partners, they were open and provided updates online throughout the weekend - you didn't see that from the major banks when they have issues). But possibly seen with some more skepticism from the public (not helped by events like the Curve downtime last weekend) and maybe slightly riskier for some groups of people (e.g. some of those more affected by the Wireguard issues that cause the Curve downtime were customers of cash cards that are often the poorest in society - some real horror stories there of some people not being able to eat over that weekend).
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Taxpayer money funding a privately owned company? That'll go down well.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Precisely. As I said it isn't my job to deal with what's going on inside a business, that's for their management to deal with. What I'm interested in is the offering to consumers, and for Royal Mail it's markedly inferior to many of the others at present. That's all that matters. I don't work for them, therefore what goes on inside the company is of no relevance to me and does not and should not influence my choices. It's fundamentally not my problem.
Letting a contract for USO letter/parcel delivery to non-profitable destinations is no different to letting a contract to empty bins or run buses or trains.
I'll repeat yet again, Royal Mail is primarily a postal service (which Vespa points out is the designated USO provider), and doesn't exactly make anywhere as much money compared to all these "I want it now" dedicated parcel delivery companies like DPD and Hermes. It's a bit hard to invest to compete when, as Vespa also pointed out, much more profitable companies come in and take what they want, whilst Royal Mail still have to provide the service they're obliged to do so under the USO, at a significantly lower profit.
Royal Mail providing a tracking service with more updates would indeed be useful (but it really isn't a necessity), however, if you want a courier-style tracking service, then it'll have to be paid for with increased postal charges.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'd be quite happy for Tracked 24/48 to be increased in price slightly to cover them actually being a proper tracked service. Those services should also be made available for public purchase.
I think they still rely on the idea of Special Delivery being the premium tracked service - thing is, it isn't - it's quite fast which is a selling point (and you don't always need that) but its actual tracking is very basic, no hour slots or similar as one would expect of a premium tracked service, and quite pricey for what you get.
Perhaps they need to recast their offering a bit to pricing different aspects separately - i.e. delivery speed and tracking/signature, i.e.:
Speed:
- Guaranteed before 9am
- Guaranteed before 1pm
- Next day
- 2 days
Tracking:
- No tracking (i.e. regular post)
- Tracked but no specific slot
- 1 hour slot with GPS tracking and notifications
Signature:
- Yes
- No
Or something like that. Plus premia for increased insurance value. That, interestingly, is basically how Hermes do it!
If you're not interested in listening to the factors which are behind the existence of Royal Mail's "markedly inferior" parcel tracking service, then what's the point of this thread?
It seems to me like you just want to complain for the sake of it.
Yeah well, I'm sure the taxpayer will be delighted about more public money being funnelled into yet another a privately owned company.
It lets people know there's no point going to pick it up before it's available.
This thread is a bit of a mountain from a molehill. Suggesting that a profitable business is on its last legs and deserves to fail, that the country should move to twice a week letter collections, and that there are some fundamental, yet predictably unexplained, problems caused by outdated practices and unions is, I think it's reasonable to say, a fairly extreme reaction to a parcel being delayed.
If I wanted to go out I'd not order something I must be in to receive on that day, or I'd just go out anyway, knowing that more than likely my neighbour will be in to take it in. I'm surprised nobody seems to have mentioned delivery to neighbours, a big advantage Royal Mail has over a courier which won't do it.
PupCuff
Member
But Royal Mail will not tell you in advance, on which day the parcel will arrive! If Royal Mail were to email me on Tuesday to tell me it will be coming on Thursday afternoon (or even just, some point on Thursday) then I could make arrangements to swap shifts/work from home etc on that day. Clearly most people will be unable to do this (pre-Covid, anyway) if they order something and then have to wait in the house for a week or however long in case it happens to turn up on one of the days.
WelshBluebird
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In terms of delivery to neighbours, certainly DPD and Hermes allow it so not sure what courier you are thinking of that doesn't.
That's strange, I always get a text message (a day in advance, or two if it's a Saturday and due on Monday) telling me what day my parcel is due for delivery.
Thank you. I think it's worth considering the real reasons a parcel might not go out for delivery despite having arrived at the collection office. They're staff sickness, not can't be being bothered or wanting to annoy. Perhaps someone phoned in sick with Coronavirus symptoms. Meanwhile at our non-outdated, non-unionised courier depot, the driver has turned up as he's self-employed, on piecework and can't afford to take time off on top of his fear of being replaced if he does.
Yes they will, if the sender has used a service that offers that. My email has many messages in doing exactly that, and where I've given the sender my number I've had texts too. If the sender just takes the parcel to the post office and sticks a stamp on it then obviously it won't be tracked but it's incorrect to say Royal Mail don't do these things.
I've never had any warning in advance from Royal Mail that a parcel was coming.
Any of the couriers I've had take a parcel back to a depot and leave a card, which is multiple of them. I can't recall which one, but one had a particularly annoying system. They would attempt redelivery the next day, until the second failed delivery you couldn't collect or change delivery. Presumably the parcel stays with the van or driver or something odd.
Then there was the courier I paid extra for because I knew they offered collect at a shop. The system was to order with delivery to your own address, then once you had a tracking code from the courier, log in to them to alter the delivery to a shop. The same courier sent me messages saying the parcel had been delivered to my house while I was on the way to the shop. It hadn't, it was at the shop.
Forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by the "modern" couriers.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm not disinterested in your view as to why RM are inferior, but that doesn't mean that those excuses are acceptable. And to me they are excuses. The main issue is poor management, which they got away with when they were statutory and basically without competition, but like many other organisations it now won't wash.
It's not a reaction to one parcel being delayed, though that prompted it. It's a reaction to a long-term dissatisfaction with the service, and an observation that the other parcel couriers, even ones run on the cheap like Amazon Logistics and Hermes, are now offering markedly superior service in some ways.
It's not always that simple as you don't always get a choice of which day it'll come, nor do you necessarily get a choice about when you go out!
Depends on your relationship with your neighbours. If you have a good one, and even better a good one with someone e.g. a pensioner who stays in most of the day, then that's quite handy for you. If you don't, then it's a negative point. I do not want deliveries to neighbours, as invariably (in non-COVID circumstances) it's a right nuisance to coincide with them being in to get it off them, not to mention that couriers knocking at my house with neighbours' parcels is quite disruptive, and in some areas you get a theft issue too. Stopping RM from doing it used to be a challenge, though they now don't do it. However all the other couriers do, and I wish they'd pack it in!
Of course, detailed and precise tracking is a good way to ensure you don't miss deliveries and to avoid that problem. It's not just a customer benefit, it also helps the couriers in reducing wasted missed deliveries that were never going to be workable.
I've had it but only from the vendor who send an e-mail with a tracking number.
PupCuff
Member
I've never once had a single notification from Royal Mail on any of the many, many parcels they have been tasked with delivering to me; make what of that you will.
It's all well and good saying that, well I get emails, so that's fine, but if it's inconsistent whether customers do or don't (perhaps some delivery centres do not have the facility to send these?) then that reflects badly on the overall customer service.
Attached is an image of a Royal Mail email doing that. The tracking link in it still worked, it was delivered at 10:47. I have an email saying it was delivered time stamped 10:47. People are suggesting Royal Mail doesn't have the technology to do this. I'm not sure why they are.
WelshBluebird
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Worth saying the one benefit Royal Mail do have for me right now is that the block of flats I live in can be a bit awkward for deliveries in terms of needing a code for the gate before you can walk in to where the intercom system is (you can't call the intercom from outside the gates which is pretty rubbish). The Posties we have know the code to get in and will put any parcels in the porch area of the building where our letterboxes are (and as I assume you need the code to get to the postboxes, this agreement is an arragnged one and they would be given the new code if it were to be changed). Some other couriers have gotten to know the code and will do the same, but right now I am much more sure of a royal mail package being delivered without me having to answer a phone call explaining how to get into the building (that is assuming I was able to provide my phone number to the carrier in the first place!).
So I am not just dumping on Royal Mail for the sake of it or because I dislike them or whatever! I just think some parts of what they offer could be better!
I did have a fun issue a few months ago when setting up my postal redirect when I was moving though. The customer support was useless too. Only through my own unwillingness to give up did I realise that it was an issue with the Royal Mail website in Chrome, and trying it in Firefox worked fine!
So I am not just dumping on Royal Mail for the sake of it or because I dislike them or whatever! I just think some parts of what they offer could be better!
I did have a fun issue a few months ago when setting up my postal redirect when I was moving though. The customer support was useless too. Only through my own unwillingness to give up did I realise that it was an issue with the Royal Mail website in Chrome, and trying it in Firefox worked fine!
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