The future of Royal Mail

[507021]

I actually spat my drink out there!!
DPD are the worst, the only delivery service that has consistently failed to deliver parcels. They mark the parcel as a failed delivery even when they've never visited the property. I'm guessing they are given too many parcels in a round to cut costs??

Hermes are ok, lot's of eBay sellers use them and they are quite quick tbf.

I don't get the hate for RM, they are reliable, the tracking system is decent, just a bit on the slow side.
Their tracking is on par with DHL and FedEx tbh.
The cheapest delivery option of second class parcel doesn't provide tracking, but the next level up does (Tracked 48) lots of eBay sellers use the later option anyway.

I think it depends on the area tbh. Here, DPD are decent and the local Hermes courier is reliable. The only one I've had any issues with is Yodel, who I won't be using again after they damaged my parcel when it was in transit.

You're absolutely spot on about Royal Mail, who I've been using for years (as sender and recipient) without any trouble whatsoever. I genuinely can't understand the fuss over not having a "your parcel is out for delivery" notification after receiving one when the postman/woman has scanned it before leaving the depot for their delivery rounds.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Some have said elsewhere that Parcel Force went downhill one sold off. Personally I've not noticed. The trouble with modem society is that a lot of people and businesses expect things NOW. Waiting a few days for a parcel or letter to arrive today to some seems archaic. Personally I will always use the Post Office/Royal Mail to send items.

 

[507021]

The trouble with modem society is that a lot of people and businesses expect things NOW. Waiting a few days for a parcel or letter to arrive today to some seems archaic.

Is the correct answer. Over the past few months, when demand on the postal service has been extremely high, only one of the parcels I've had delivered by Royal Mail has been late, and that was only by a day. Big deal. It's happened before and will probably happen again. At least Royal Mail have always delivered my parcels in one piece, and 95% of the time, either before or on the date it was due for delivery.

Frankly, I feel this thread is a massive overreaction to something extremely trivial.

 

[cactustwirly]

I think it depends on the area tbh. Here, DPD are decent and the local Hermes courier is reliable. The only one I've had any issues with is Yodel, who I won't be using again after they damaged my parcel when it was in transit.

You're absolutely spot on about Royal Mail, who I've been using for years (as sender and recipient) without any trouble whatsoever. I genuinely can't understand the fuss over not having a "your parcel is out for delivery" notification after receiving one when the postman/woman has scanned it before leaving the depot for their delivery rounds.

I've found that some of the couriers work for multiple companies, I've had Hermes and Amazon parcels delivered by a fella in a DPD van.
A lot of these companies are unprofessional using "self employed" couriers, which often means a scruffy person using a banged up people carrier or a rusty dented van.

The more expensive couriers such as RM, FedEx, UPS and DHL seem a lot more professional, with actual uniforms and better quality vans. Obviously these are more expensive.

 

[507021]

I've found that some of the couriers work for multiple companies, I've had Hermes and Amazon parcels delivered by a fella in a DPD van.
A lot of these companies are unprofessional using "self employed" couriers, which often means a scruffy person using a banged up people carrier or a rusty dented van.

The more expensive couriers such as RM, FedEx, UPS and DHL seem a lot more professional, with actual uniforms and better quality vans. Obviously these are more expensive.

To be honest, as long as they deliver my parcel on time and in one piece, then I'm not really bothered about the courier's appearance or whether it arrives in whatever vans Royal Mail/DPD use or my local Hermes courier's Citroen Berlingo. As long as they're pleasant, deliver my parcel on time (or as close as possible) and handle my parcel with care, then that's enough for me.

 

[Senex]

At least with Royal Mail I know my parcel will arrive on time (barring the odd exception, but that's life) and undamaged. I'm with bearhugger, I really fail to see the need for an "out for delivery" notification and then another when they're within a certain distance of your address. My mail usually arrives between 9 and 10 o'clock, so for me, that's a good enough indication of when my parcel is due to be delivered.

Then you're lucky. My mail delivery varies between about 10:30 a.m. and about 2 p.m. Parcels come by a separate van, usually some time around lunch time. But there's no telling what comes which way. Most books come by the mail delivery, but some for no apparent reason by van—you have no way of telling. Other tyes of package can be either. Collection from the delivery office is not attractive: always long queues and slow service, quite a lengthy walk to get there (no buses, and no car parking).
I think there is a worse service, however, that has not been mentioned yet, and that is UPS. Their tracking simply gives you a day on which to expect delivery, at any time up to 9 p.m. or later — and then they fail to turn up. I found it instructive to look them up on TrustPilot recently, and found that the UK operation gets a 92% "Bad" rating from some 5,000 who've commented (and that other national operations get the same sort of rating). My own most recent encounter with them, at the end of last month, was thoroughly unsatisfactory.
If all the supermarkets can commit themselves to deliver in a one-hour slot and keep to that (with tlephone warning if for any reason there is any delay), then why can't the carriers perform better? Most of them still seem to work on the principle that there's always the little housewife at home all day to wait for them (or perhaps they think we all have servants). And so few of the firms one deals with for mail order seem to offer choice of carrier or to name their carrier when you are placing an order so that you can opt out of buying at that stage if it's one you know from experience to be awful.

 

[Ashley Hill]

The current Hermes courier in my area uses their own(?) estate car full of badly stacked parcels. Another issue of recent times is that with many returning to work that Hermes abandon more and more parcels on doorsteps. See how many unscrupulous people are wondering around your area looking for these opportunities. My issue I mentioned earlier was pre C19.

 

[507021]

The current Hermes courier in my area uses their own(?) estate car full of badly stacked parcels. Another issue of recent times is that with many returning to work that Hermes abandon more and more parcels on doorsteps. See how many unscrupulous people are wondering around your area looking for these opportunities. My issue I mentioned earlier was pre C19.

I have heard of that, but fortunately, mine waits for about 10-15 seconds and puts it back in his van if nobody answers the door.

On the other hand, my Mum's local Hermes courier abandoned a parcel for her next door neighbour on her doorstep...

 

[Mojo]

At least with Royal Mail I know my parcel will arrive on time (barring the odd exception, but that's life) and undamaged. I'm with bearhugger, I really fail to see the need for an "out for delivery" notification and then another when they're within a certain distance of your address.

It isn’t essential, but it is a very useful service. I’d rather not stay in all day waiting for a parcel to turn up but would appreciate some kind of estimate. I had DPD delivered parcel on Friday and found their service excellent. They messaged me the day before to say that it would be delivered tomorrow, then on the day gave me a rough estimate of the time, then as it got closer the online tracking became available with a much more detailed estimate.

Much more useful than letting me know it would be coming at some time tomorrow as if let me get on with my day rather than waiting around all day.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is that actually true?

Yes. The employment issues with all the big courier firms are hugely problematic. It's easy to undercut when your staff are "self employed" and paid a piece rate. As such, they are not entitled to annoying bureaucracies like the national minimum wage, holiday pay, sick pay or a pension.

Royal Mail's practices might be "archaic" (paying holiday pay and sick pay is so outré darling). Call me a raging commie, but I'd rather that than the Yodel alternative.

Speaking of Yodel, the last three packages have arrived here looking like someone had drop-kicked them from the quayside onto the Ben my Chree. They use a local courier on island- the same one everyone except RM uses- so I know it's not the local courier damaging stuff.

 

[GusB]

Speaking of Yodel, the last three packages have arrived here looking like someone had drop-kicked them from the quayside onto the Ben my Chree. They use a local courier on island- the same one everyone except RM uses- so I know it's not the local courier damaging stuff.

Having had to deal with Yodel (NoDel) issues from the retail end, I could cite many similar examples! The most common example of non-delivery was "parcel left in front porch", which left us looking rather silly when the customer told us that they lived in a multi-storey

Back on topic, though - I've got no issues at all with Royal Mail. I ordered an item from Google a few days ago and was advised that it would arrive on Wednesday. It was delivered then by my local postie along with the other mail. While she doesn't arrived at a fixed time every day, my postie does deliver within a certain time window, so I know roughly when to be in. If I'm out, it's either left with a neighbour or at the local Post Office. The post is more convenient for returning goods too, as I don't have to make two bus journeys to get to a Co-op.

 

[ta-toget]

Royal Mail acknowledge some of these problems in their annual reports. I think they are looking to introduce more automation and improve parcel delivery, particularly given the large drop in the volume of letters. (Attached presentation is from https://www.royalmailgroup.com/media/11198/royal-mail-group-fy2019-20-results-presentation.pdf)

 

[Peter Sarf]

I actually prefer to go and collect my parcel. So, if the parcel is too big for the letter box, click and collect is my preference which means the carrier is irrelevant. My worst fear is the carrier the passport agency were using. Nearest collection depot is in Dartford which is a long cross-ish London trip. The problem for me with Royal Mail is they have moved their collection depot in Croydon to an out of town area. I would prefer it if I could actually park there !.

 

[ta-toget]

I actually prefer to go and collect my parcel. So click and collect is my preference which means the carrier is irrelevant. The problem for me with Royal Mail is they have moved their collection depot to an out of town area. I would prefer it if I could actually park there !.

You can sometimes get it sent to a Post Office, though, can't you? (But not all Post Offices.)

 

[Mojo]

You can sometimes get it sent to a Post Office, though, can't you? (But not all Post Offices.)

The default location at my old house was for any missed packages (and this includes letters that had to be signed for where the recipient was out, and letters that the sender had underpaid for), was at the local post office, but everywhere else I’ve lived it’s at the usual customer service point in their main building.

The Royal Mail website says that redelivery to a Post Office is chargeable for a small fee, but that some companies may allow you to specify when ordering to click and collect, although I’m not sure I’ve ordered anything big from a company that uses Royal Mail before!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes. The employment issues with all the big courier firms are hugely problematic. It's easy to undercut when your staff are "self employed" and paid a piece rate. As such, they are not entitled to annoying bureaucracies like the national minimum wage, holiday pay, sick pay or a pension.

Royal Mail's practices might be "archaic" (paying holiday pay and sick pay is so outré darling). Call me a raging commie, but I'd rather that than the Yodel alternative.

Speaking of Yodel, the last three packages have arrived here looking like someone had drop-kicked them from the quayside onto the Ben my Chree. They use a local courier on island- the same one everyone except RM uses- so I know it's not the local courier damaging stuff.

Well that is true. But, sadly, most people look at the number after the pound sign and don't consider quality let alone the working conditions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least with Royal Mail I know my parcel will arrive on time (barring the odd exception, but that's life) and undamaged. I'm with bearhugger, I really fail to see the need for an "out for delivery" notification and then another when they're within a certain distance of your address. My mail usually arrives between 9 and 10 o'clock, so for me, that's a good enough indication of when my parcel is due to be delivered.

Lucky for you. Mine is nowhere near as consistent, and parcels are sometimes done in a separate drop so it can be near enough any time. Typically precisely when I decide to go to the loo or have a shower!

Again, I think you need to show some gratitude for the fact you can actually track a parcel in first place.

Wow, that attitude belongs in the year 507021 hit Merseyside's rails (as it were), not in 2020. The business exists to serve the customer. Every other courier, even the rubbish ones, have learnt that, and so are improving tracking all the time.

Royal Mail will simply die if it does not adapt, as indeed it should. You're welcome to live in 1979 if you want, I personally prefer (COVID aside) 2020.

Yes. The employment issues with all the big courier firms are hugely problematic. It's easy to undercut when your staff are "self employed" and paid a piece rate. As such, they are not entitled to annoying bureaucracies like the national minimum wage, holiday pay, sick pay or a pension.

Royal Mail's practices might be "archaic" (paying holiday pay and sick pay is so outré darling). Call me a raging commie, but I'd rather that than the Yodel alternative.

Of course, paying people properly and having decent IT systems are not mutually exclusive! Note I'm not calling for them to be cheaper (I have no particular issue with the price of RM services other than that Special Delivery is a bit expensive; they really should offer Tracked 24/48 as a consumer service but they don't), I'm calling for them to add the same basic services the other couriers offer.

 

[WelshBluebird]

At least with Royal Mail I know my parcel will arrive on time (barring the odd exception, but that's life) and undamaged. I'm with bearhugger, I really fail to see the need for an "out for delivery" notification and then another when they're within a certain distance of your address. My mail usually arrives between 9 and 10 o'clock, so for me, that's a good enough indication of when my parcel is due to be delivered.

Again, I think you need to show some gratitude for the fact you can actually track a parcel in first place.

Is the correct answer. Over the past few months, when demand on the postal service has been extremely high, only one of the parcels I've had delivered by Royal Mail has been late, and that was only by a day. Big deal. It's happened before and will probably happen again. At least Royal Mail have always delivered my parcels in one piece, and 95% of the time, either before or on the date it was due for delivery.

Frankly, I feel this thread is a massive overreaction to something extremely trivial.

I mean given that Royal Mails competitors can provide a much better tracking experience, what excuse do Royal Mail really have?

Yes its a nice to have for most of us (though an essential for some people), but if Hermes of all people can give me a 2 hour time slot, why on earth can't Royal Mail?

And the idea that we should be grateful for being able to track parcels? Wow. Talk about anti customer beliefs! If that opinion is one shared within Royal Mail then no wonder why they are so far behind regarding it!

 

[507021]

Wow, that attitude belongs in the year 507021 hit Merseyside's rails (as it were), not in 2020. The business exists to serve the customer. Every other courier, even the rubbish ones, have learnt that, and so are improving tracking all the time.

Royal Mail will simply die if it does not adapt, as indeed it should. You're welcome to live in 1979 if you want, I personally prefer (COVID aside) 2020.

My attitude? You're the one saying Royal Mail deserve to fail because the tracking system doesn't meet your standards.

 

[507021]

I mean given that Royal Mails competitors can provide a much better tracking experience, what excuse do Royal Mail really have?

Yes its a nice to have for most of us, but if Hermes of all people can give me a 2 hour time slot, why on earth can't Royal Mail?

Royal Mail is primarily a postal service, whereas Hermes, DPD etc are dedicated parcel delivery companies which both make significantly more money than Royal Mail and can afford state of the art GPS parcel tracking systems for their customers.

And the idea that we should be grateful for being able to track parcels? Wow. Talk about anti customer beliefs! If that opinion is one shared within Royal Mail then no wonder why they are so far behind regarding it!

Simply, I don't take things for granted.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I actually prefer to go and collect my parcel.

So do I. Amazon lockers are a great idea. Hermes using local newsagents is a good idea in theory, but it's not really worked whenever I've used it.

It's a shame Royal Mail can't/won't use their network of small local shops to do this.

Of course, paying people properly and having decent IT systems are not mutually exclusive!

Indeed not, but without the large base of parcels work you won't get the IT. ParcelForce died for the same reasons RM struggle- they're undercut by suppliers who don't bat an eyelid at treating their staff like pond life.

It's all a bit of a moot point though, as I can't remember ever being given a choice of courier by a retailer. It's normally bloody Yodel.

 

[gswindale]

I ordered something earlier this week which was despatched by Royal Mail. Received confirmation that the item had been despatched and was given a tracking reference. The following day I entered the tracking reference into the Royal Mail tracker. The answer was along the lines of "tracking information only available once we've attempted delivery". That is really not much use to anybody.

Fortunately our postie is very good at knocking and leaving everything on our porch (letters and parcels delivered together).

What is interesting is that some items I've ordered with Royal Mail delivery, I've received emails telling me it is out for delivery, but not all - I don't know what determines whether I receive notification or not?

 

[Bletchleyite]

My attitude? You're the one saying Royal Mail deserve to fail because the tracking system doesn't meet your standards.

No, I'm saying Royal Mail deserve to fail because they are offering a markedly inferior tracking system to their competitors, even the budget ones. And they will unless they sort it out, because that's how the market works. Knowing exactly (or in a narrow slot) when your parcel will arrive is a very powerful marketing tool as it removes the "guessing game" from whether it's safe to go for a wee or not - and most couriers and posties don't even hang around long enough for that and the washing of hands to be completed, let alone anything else.

The only RM service that even vaguely offers that is Special Delivery 9AM, and that is expensive, and the pre-9AM thing is just not needed by most, just knowing when the parcel will arrive.

They're within their rights not to offer that service if they don't want to, and companies, knowing that that service is highly valued by their customers, won't use RM, and that will result in their failure.

And the idea that we should be grateful for being able to track parcels? Wow. Talk about anti customer beliefs! If that opinion is one shared within Royal Mail then no wonder why they are so far behind regarding it!

Well, quite. It's an attitude that belongs in the 1970s - "you can have Royal Mail and lump it". Fortunately it's not like that any more, and if other couriers (for goodness' sake, even the budget ones) can offer a superior service, who'd pay extra for RM any more? And that, as I said, will cause them to fail if they lose too much business. They can't rely on subsidy now, and really there's no reason to subsidise an organisation that's basically just another courier (particularly the execrable ParcelFarce) - letter post is dying off as a thing, and if it's felt to still be important and justifying of subsidy the Government could let a contract to any organisation they liked to provide that.

 

[Peter Sarf]

No, I'm saying Royal Mail deserve to fail because they are offering a markedly inferior tracking system to their competitors, even the budget ones. And they will unless they sort it out, because that's how the market works. Knowing exactly (or in a narrow slot) when your parcel will arrive is a very powerful marketing tool as it removes the "guessing game" from whether it's safe to go for a wee or not - and most couriers and posties don't even hang around long enough for that and the washing of hands to be completed, let alone anything else.

The only RM service that even vaguely offers that is Special Delivery 9AM, and that is expensive, and the pre-9AM thing is just not needed by most, just knowing when the parcel will arrive.

They're within their rights not to offer that service if they don't want to, and companies, knowing that that service is highly valued by their customers, won't use RM, and that will result in their failure.



Well, quite. It's an attitude that belongs in the 1970s - "you can have Royal Mail and lump it". Fortunately it's not like that any more, and if other couriers (for goodness' sake, even the budget ones) can offer a superior service, who'd pay extra for RM any more? And that, as I said, will cause them to fail if they lose too much business. They can't rely on subsidy now, and really there's no reason to subsidise an organisation that's basically just another courier (particularly the execrable ParcelFarce) - letter post is dying off as a thing, and if it's felt to still be important and justifying of subsidy the Government could let a contract to any organisation they liked to provide that.

Tracking is irrelevant to me as I am very unlikely to be in and I will not wait for a delivery. I would rather know it is at the local depot and go straight there for it after work. Indeed I have requested that delivery not be attempted as that guarantees I can collect it quicker.

Incidentally there are ,as far as delivery is concerned, two different DHLs I discovered and never the twain shall help each other.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Tracking is irrelevant to me as I am very unlikely to be in and I will not wait for a delivery. I would rather know it is at the local depot and go straight there for it after work. Indeed I have requested that delivery not be attempted as that guarantees I can collect it quicker.

Which of course is fine if the depot is near enough and that is convenient. I used to do that until they changed the parking arrangement at the depot, it is now very difficult to park there as the road has double yellows and the "customer car park" is always full of RM staff cars. If I do miss something I redirect it to the Post Office (though this irritatingly costs 70p extra; funnily enough DPD will redirect stuff to my local shop for nowt), but I'd rather not miss it.

 

[507021]

No, I'm saying Royal Mail deserve to fail because they are offering a markedly inferior tracking system to their competitors, even the budget ones. And they will unless they sort it out, because that's how the market works. Knowing exactly (or in a narrow slot) when your parcel will arrive is a very powerful marketing tool as it removes the "guessing game" from whether it's safe to go for a wee or not - and most couriers and posties don't even hang around long enough for that and the washing of hands to be completed, let alone anything else.

The only RM service that even vaguely offers that is Special Delivery 9AM, and that is expensive, and the pre-9AM thing is just not needed by most, just knowing when the parcel will arrive.

They're within their rights not to offer that service if they don't want to, and companies, knowing that that service is highly valued by their customers, won't use RM, and that will result in their failure.

Royal Mail is primarily a postal service which happens to deliver parcels, and therefore makes significantly less money compared to dedicated international parcel delivery companies like DPD and Hermes, who are much more capable of affording state of the art GPS real-time parcel tracking systems. Incidentally, things like that cost a lot of money to purchase and then maintain once it's been implemented. Have you not actually considered the fact Royal Mail might like to introduce such a service for their customers, but may not be able to afford to right now?

Also, just because you think there should be a bare minimum standard of tracking service doesn't mean those (such as myself) who are happy with the service provided by current tracking system are behind the times, either. That's just insulting.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Its interesting that the staff who deliver to the Amazon lockers do not appear to be Amazon employees but courier staff. I recently noticed the one near me being filled by what looked like a father and son team.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Royal Mail is primarily a postal service which happens to deliver parcels, and therefore makes significantly less money compared to dedicated international parcel delivery companies like DPD and Hermes, who are much more capable of affording state of the art GPS real-time parcel tracking systems. Incidentally, things like that cost a lot of money to purchase and then maintain once it's been implemented. Have you not actually considered the fact Royal Mail might like to introduce such a service for their customers, but may not be able to afford to right now?

That's not my problem. All I'm bothered about is that their competitors are doing it and they're not. I don't have to feel sorry for RM, and their finances aren't my concern. You seem to think I should have some understanding with them for the fact that they do not offer the service that even their cheapest budget competitors do - well, I don't and I won't.

As for letter post, it's passe, dead as a dodo, it won't even be a thing in 10 years' time and it barely is now. RM is a courier just like all the others. It might be useful having letters and postcards maybe once a week long-term, but as I said another contract can be let for that if RM fails.

Also, just because you think there should be a bare minimum standard of tracking service doesn't mean those (such as myself) who are happy with the service provided by current tracking system are behind the times, either. That's just insulting.

No, RM are behind the times, not you.

 

[Ashley Hill]

At the end of the day people will use and stick with a courier they trust. Clearly the OP has issues with the Royal Mail,I have issues with Hermes whilst others its Yodel and that's why we choose one over another. Just because an individual has issues with one firm there maybe others who would recommend it. I also still like to send and receive letters,but I'm not against email. If that makes me old fashioned then so be it,I'm happy in my own little world.

 

[507021]

That's not my problem. All I'm bothered about is that their competitors are doing it and they're not. I don't have to feel sorry for RM, and their finances aren't my concern. You seem to think I should have some understanding with them for the fact that they do not offer the service that even their cheapest budget competitors do - well, I don't and I won't.

As for letter post, it's passe, dead as a dodo, it won't even be a thing in 10 years' time and it barely is now. RM is a courier just like all the others. It might be useful having letters and postcards maybe once a week long-term, but as I said another contract can be let for that if RM fails.

That's your prerogative, however I'm trying to offer a sensible suggestion as to why Royal Mail (which is primarily a postal service) doesn't currently offer the "minimum level of service" which you want, but your response to this clearly shows that you're not interested in anybody/thing else's circumstances. You can't always have what you want, when you want.

If you don't like Royal Mail, then ask the company who's sending you the parcel to use someone else, or use a company who does.

No, RM are behind the times, not you.

You told me I'm "welcome to live in 1979 if you want".