The 'gamechanger' solution to the problem of leaves on the line

[Adlington]

Source

The cleaning system, developed by researchers from the [Sheffield] university's Department of Mechanical Engineering, works by firing dry ice pellets in a stream of air at high speed onto the tracks - freezing any leaves on the line. Frozen leaves are then blasted away as the dry ice pellets turn back into a gas.The dry ice pellets are made from waste carbon dioxide from other industries

Researchers have bought two of Northern's now-retired Pacer trains, based at Wensleydale Railway in North Yorkshire, to test the new design and develop a plan for the system to be fitted throughout Northern's fleet from next year.

Rob Cummings, seasonal improvement manager at Northern, said: "This is a gamechanger for the industry – the next step in finding a solution to tricky autumn conditions.

Yet another wonder solution? Let's wait till autumn...

 

[Western 52]

Surely better to keep the vegetation under control in the first place!

 

[Adlington]

Cutting down lineside trees will not be welcome by tree-huggers

 

[Gloster]

Cutting down lineside trees will not be welcome by tree-huggers

A personal opinion is that it is not the extreme end of the environmental lobby that are the most likely to oppose the cutting down of line side trees, although there are some. It is people living in neighbouring properties who are frightened about the noise, don’t like the different view, worry that it might devalue the property or, horror of horror, fear that impertinent passengers might be able to see into their living rooms. However, claiming that your opposition is on purely environmental ground sound much better than straightforward selfishness.

 

[irish_rail]

Cutting down lineside trees will not be welcome by tree-huggers

Trees need to come down either way. Let's not forget the Plymouth driver nearly "written off" by a tree at Lavington. Or the power car written off by a tree descending Hemerdon bank. Trees very close to railway lines are a nuisance.

 

[Peterthegreat]

Seasonal Improvement Manager! Not heard that one before.

 

[cin88]

Weren't they supposed to already be testing this out on the mainline on a few Class 150s? I swear I saw something about it in work a good 12-18 months ago.

 

[yorksrob]

Hope it does better than the Swedish Scrubber !

 

[dk1]

Cutting down lineside trees will not be welcome by tree-huggers

Just ignore them.

 

[snowball]

Two previous threads

Leaf blowing trains.

Working at a train station you normally see the leaf blower train pass through twice a day one way then the other pushing air and water onto the tracks to get them off but not long after more leaves are back onto the track and glued to be Rails again when trains come through. Is this effective...

www.railforums.co.uk

A new way of dealing with leaves on the line

Just came across this about using dry ice to solve the problem of leaves on the line and the delays/costs it causes: Dry ice invention spells the end of delays due to wrong type of leaves on railway tracks "Dry ice is being blasted onto railway lines across northern England in a trial aimed at...

www.railforums.co.uk

The latter seems to be about the same method as the present thread.

 

[najaB]

Surely better to keep the vegetation under control in the first place!

It's not like leaves blow in the wind...

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not like leaves blow in the wind...

I was literally just thinking this. So what we need now is a solution for the wind...

 

[yorksrob]

I was literally just thinking this. So what we need now is a solution for the wind...

I've been looking for that for ages !

"B-boom tsh"

 

[Bantamzen]

I've been looking for that for ages !

"B-boom tsh"

It took me a second there...

 

[LYRobert]

I remember an article in, maybe 'Modern Railways' years ago headed "Plasma Torch Kills Adhesion Problems" but I never heard anything else about it.

 

[zwk500]

I remember an article in, maybe 'Modern Railways' years ago headed "Plasma Torch Kills Adhesion Problems" but I never heard anything else about it.

I've certainly seen multiple trials of various forms of Plasma solutions and dry ice delivery trialled in the last 5 years. AFAIK nothing came of any of them.

 

[Deepgreen]

What is wrong with water jet blasting as used at present? Does it cause damage en route? I've not been aware that it does and it is a freely-available natural substance. Not only that but the sodden leaves blown away are at least less likely to blow back onto the railhead immediately. The amount of dry ice needed will be huge and there will surely be a signifcant cost to its production and storage.

 

[DarloRich]

What is wrong with water jet blasting as used at present? Does it cause damage en route? I've not been aware that it does and it is a freely-available natural substance. Not only that but the sodden leaves blown away are at least less likely to blow back onto the railhead immediately. The amount of dry ice needed will be huge and there will surely be a signifcant cost to its production and storage.

The water used isn't free. There is a substantial cost associated with this operation.

 

[AndrewE]

The water used isn't free. There is a substantial cost associated with this operation.

Carbon dioxide isn't free either... in fact several abattoirs were shut down in the last few years because of a temporary shortage of the industrial by-product from fertiliser manufacture, itself shut down because of energy prices (not CO2 from brewing or distilling, which doesn't seem to be captured any more. Anyone else remember articulated lorry tankers with "Distillers CO2" written on them?)

I was told about a trial of solid CO2 pellets used to shot-blast the paint off aeroplanes being considered for BR use... Sounds good: no wet effluent or solvents - just dry paint flakes, no damage to the aluminium, but unfortunately it was so noisy that the only safe way to do it would have been by robot - which hadn't been developed to that degree back then.
I wonder what the railway neighbours will think of it?

 

[DarloRich]

Is this a trial by Northern or NR?

Carbon dioxide isn't free either...

But that doesn't men that a potential solution that might be cheaper overall should not be investigated.

I was told about a trial of solid CO2 pellets used to shot-blast the paint off aeroplanes being considered for BR use... Sounds good: no wet effluent or solvents - just dry paint flakes, no damage to the aluminium, but unfortunately it was so noisy that the only safe way to do it would have been by robot - which hadn't been developed to that degree back then.
I wonder what the railway neighbours will think of it?

it isn't a static process though so it should pass quite quickly.

 

[HSTEd]

Surely better to keep the vegetation under control in the first place!

Keeping vegetation under control is far from free, especially given our modern safety regime.

The railway can't afford to keep taking the necessary closures or employing the necessary personnel to do what was done in the steam era.

And that's before we get to the inevitable political backlash from scalping significant areas of land with much higher than usual biodiversity.

 

[jfowkes]

From the article:

Northern said Autumn disruption could now be a thing of the past following the trial of new technology made small enough to be fitted onto all passenger trains to clear leaves from the line.

So the real benefit, if successful, will be many more trains able to perform leaf clearance activities. That would really make a difference. Imagine if the line at Salisbury in 2021 was being regularly blasted...

 

[ComUtoR]

What is wrong with water jet blasting as used at present?

I'd say it depends on what you want to do. Water jetting isn't great. It's ok at removing detritus from the railhead but doesn't remove the leaves from the track. What also happens is that is causes additional adhesion problems.

Being the first person behind the water jet is a nightmare. Trains have been known to slip through because of it.

We had an infamous year where NR decided not to sandite anywhere and just water jet. Suffice to say, slippy season really earned its badge that year.

'leaves on the line' kinda misrepresents what actually happens. It's the leaves that have been crushed onto the railhead and the natural oils build up and cause black spots on the railhead. Chuck in the seasonal weather and it's game over for adhesion.

Sandite / Trackgrip. Is where there needs to be a decent solution but still needs to be combined with railhead cleaning.

 

[43096]

Trees need to come down either way. Let's not forget the Plymouth driver nearly "written off" by a tree at Lavington. Or the power car written off by a tree descending Hemerdon bank. Trees very close to railway lines are a nuisance.

Indeed! The railway is a transport system, not a bio-diversity site, and there are real safety implications. In a sensible world the RAIB report into the Salisbury Tunnel accident would make tree felling a recommendation, but I’m not holding my breath on that.

 

[Deepgreen]

I'd say it depends on what you want to do. Water jetting isn't great. It's ok at removing detritus from the railhead but doesn't remove the leaves from the track. What also happens is that is causes additional adhesion problems.

Being the first person behind the water jet is a nightmare. Trains have been known to slip through because of it.

We had an infamous year where NR decided not to sandite anywhere and just water jet. Suffice to say, slippy season really earned its badge that year.

'leaves on the line' kinda misrepresents what actually happens. It's the leaves that have been crushed onto the railhead and the natural oils build up and cause black spots on the railhead. Chuck in the seasonal weather and it's game over for adhesion.

Sandite / Trackgrip. Is where there needs to be a decent solution but still needs to be combined with railhead cleaning.

The dry ice wn't remove leaves from the permanent way - it'll move them in a frozen state for a short distance where they will melt and still be in the immediate vicinity. It's interesting to hear about the drawbacks of the jetting - I had assumed that the high pressure water was effective at cleaning the railhead (after all the only thing that really matters for adhesion) just as heavy rain is OK at cleaning it where drizzle isn't. Adhesion on wet but clean rails is supposedly OK even if not as good as dry, clean rails. I have toyed with the idea of magnetic emergency track brakes for use when all else fails but there are obviously many problems with them too. While we have trees and steel wheels on steel rails, I suspect we have a square root of minus one problem here...

 

[randyrippley]

This isn't new technology. It has been used for cleaning buildings for 30+ years.
We discussed it here in railway use several years ago

 

[Deepgreen]

This isn't new technology. It has been used for cleaning buildings for 30+ years.
We discussed it here in railway use several years ago

Indeed - a very different application for buildings, and it wasn't pursued for the railway then, seemingly.

 

[contrex]

Trees need to come down either way. Let's not forget the Plymouth driver nearly "written off" by a tree at Lavington.

Or the Welsh lady near Keynsham. I don't think her family would like to read that she was 'written off'.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Or the Welsh lady near Keynsham. I don't think her family would like to read that she was 'written off'.

Was she the one on the HST with opening droplights ?
Is that the reason (not her) why you cannot now lean out of a coach window on Network Rail infrastructure ?

Leaves on the line have been a problem for donkeys years, partly due to disc brakes replacing tread brakes on rolling stock, but also because lineside trees are simply not managed properly.

A good example of trees on the lineside in Autumn

 

[66701GBRF]

Can't imagine this dry ice idea would be cost effective or efficient enough for wide spread use.