The Great British Train Scandal (Channel 5)

[ainsworth74]

True, but at least you would still get on the train! Unlike the plane if it was full (and indeed, if airlines still practice overbooking, some passengers with valid tickets might not be able to travel....)

Absolutely the situations are not identical, though some similarities exist, but in reality they're just a useful stick to beat the railway with by generating stories likeL "IT COSTS MORE TO TRAVEL FROM MANCHESTER TO LONDON BY TRAIN THAN TO FLY FROM MANCHESTER TO TENERIFE!" when the comparison is with an Anytime Single versus a Ryanair flight booked six months ago...

 

[John Webb]

But BR was ‘allowed to get away with’ higher fares increases. 37% in real terms between 1984-1994 across the board (source, history of NSE by Chris Green), and not just on specific fares selected to make a point. Government had no say, as in those days they were rather distant on such matters and would let BR take the flack.

As I said earlier, whilst some fares have gone up, the actual fares paid by many people have fallen in nominal terms, let alone allowing for inflation. You certainly couldn‘t do Birmingham - Euston for £18 return on a Friday in 1994, and you can now.

It wasn't only 1984-1994 prices rose. In 1969 I started a cross-London commute, having taken on a new job. From January 1975 to January 1977 my annual season ticket virtually doubled in price. (I can't recall the exact figures.) At which point I sat down with a calculator and realised I could get a modest mortgage and live much closer to work and save both time and money. So I moved - one of the best things I ever did!

 

[WestieRail]

Indeed, but it is standard practice when demonstrating How Dreadful Our Railways Are to compare the highest possible rail fare with the competing alternative. Using the example in the programme, is it even possible to turn up at an airport, buy a ticket and jump on a plane to Florida seconds before it departs?

Precisely. But a fair/fare comparison wouldn't attract views. The state of our media...

 

[WestieRail]

Absolutely the situations are not identical, though some similarities exist, but in reality they're just a useful stick to beat the railway with by generating stories likeL "IT COSTS MORE TO TRAVEL FROM MANCHESTER TO LONDON BY TRAIN THAN TO FLY FROM MANCHESTER TO TENERIFE!" when the comparison is with an Anytime Single versus a Ryanair flight booked six months ago...

Andy Burnham's Tweet (a while back) being one such uninformed example, to get a reaction.

 

[Bald Rick]

A quick look at NRE for tomorrow (going out after 10:00 and back after 20:00) brings up either £42 or £61.50.

Try two weeks tomorrow.

 

[TheSmiths82]

I have not watched it, but I am guessing it is like a lot of Manchester Evening News articles "Mum goes to Ibiza instead of paying for a £300 train ticket to London"... How many ordinary people would get a 7:00am train first class ticket to London the day? I do think privatisation has been a total failure, and fares are too expensive but these programs are always edited to suit a narrative and are not always well balanced.

The Manchester Evening News have also done articles saying how it is cheaper to fly to London. No mention of the costs involved in getting to the airport (for some people it might be less than the city centre granted) and then when you get to London you're probably miles from where you want to be.

 

[yorksrob]

Try two weeks tomorrow.

It's not particularly immediate though.

That said, the £42 return is pretty good. Pity its not replicated elsewhere on the system, even for many shorter distance, lower quality journeys.

 

[philosopher]

It showed the Woman's eticket, it was an Off Peak Single. I'm guessing this was filmed before the recent fare rises happened a few weeks ago. Naturally no mention of the £137.50 Super Off Peak Single route via London.

Also I couldn't help but notice how they happened to arrive at Bristol Temple Meads at 09:36- a minute after the 09:35 to Edinburgh departed.

I doubt many people would turn up nearly an hour before their booked train.

Also I wonder how far in advance they booked the plane ticket for that price.

To me, it felt like the producers had cherry picked a journey that they suspected would have a high chance of going wrong, hence making the railway industry look bad. First potential issue is the first leg involved a CrossCountry service from Bristol to Birmingham, a route that is known to have overcrowding issues. Second, the interchange time at Birmingham New Street was tight (12 minutes according to the National Rail site), meaning even a short delay on the CrossCountry service would result in her missing the Avanti Birmingham to Edinburgh service. Third, Avanti are known for currently having a lot of issues with cancellations, so the odds of this service being cancelled were high. Therefore, given these issues, it is not surprising something went wrong on this journey.

I suspect most passengers doing that route by train would use the direct CrossCountry service from Bristol to Edinburgh, even if does take a bit longer.

 

[voyagerdude220]

To me, it felt like the producers had cherry picked a journey that they suspected would have a high chance of going wrong, hence making the railway industry look bad. First potential issue is the first leg involved a CrossCountry service from Bristol to Birmingham, a route that is known to have overcrowding issues. Second, the interchange time at Birmingham New Street was tight (12 minutes according to the National Rail site), meaning even a short delay on the CrossCountry service would result in her missing the Avanti Birmingham to Edinburgh service. Third, Avanti are known for currently having a lot of issues with cancellations, so the odds of this service being cancelled were high. Therefore, given these issues, it is not surprising something went wrong on this journey.

I suspect most passengers doing that route by train would use the direct CrossCountry service from Bristol to Edinburgh, even if does take a bit longer.

Good points.
Also no mention that because the woman got into Edinburgh late, she would have been entitled to claim delay repay compensation from Avanti. (although that could very easily become the start of another moan if Avanti decided to reject the claim for delay repay.)

 

[simonw]

It's channel 5, a channel not exactly renowned for quality tv (with a very few exceptions).

 

[SM Chobham Int]

I think it’s fair to say that probably everyone on here loves rail and defends rail travel to the hilt……. I certainly do - but I feel we are missing the point here: yes they are talking extremes and skewing it to show rail in a bad light, but surely that’s what we need - more programmes like this to highlight what has gone wrong and push for an affordable railway back in public ownership……… it should be possible for everyone to turn up and buy an affordable ticket and go, as you can in probably all European countries……. Advanced purchase tickets should also be available at an even cheaper price. The bottom line being that as proven with East Coast 2009-14 (or thereabouts) it cost the taxpayer 4/5 times less than going into leeches like Branson & Souters already mega rich pockets…….. if the program is correct then we are paying over 6 times more in real terms than we were in BR days !!!! So however that is portrayed it needs telling to Joe public imo……. Oh and the dry curly cheese sandwich myth

 

[misar]

I think it’s fair to say that probably everyone on here loves rail and defends rail travel to the hilt……. I certainly do - but I feel we are missing the point here: yes they are talking extremes and skewing it to show rail in a bad light, but surely that’s what we need - more programmes like this to highlight what has gone wrong and push for an affordable railway back in public ownership……… it should be possible for everyone to turn up and buy an affordable ticket and go, as you can in probably all European countries……. Advanced purchase tickets should also be available at an even cheaper price. The bottom line being that as proven with East Coast 2009-14 (or thereabouts) it cost the taxpayer 4/5 times less than going into leeches like Branson & Souters already mega rich pockets…….. if the program is correct then we are paying over 6 times more in real terms than we were in BR days !!!! So however that is portrayed it needs telling to Joe public imo……. Oh and the dry curly cheese sandwich myth

Having watched the programme you have provided a good analysis. Many of the posts here discuss the rail facts presented but I was more interested in the opinions of the contributors that they chose to include. These mostly emphasised that privatisation has cost travellers and tax payers more and left us with a less well-run railway that compares unfavourably with those of many European neighbours. As you say it is no bad thing to remind viewers of the reality in 2024 even if the programme is not perfect.

 

[yorksrob]

I think a lot of us on this forum will defend rail as a form of transport to the hilt, but are loath to defend the appalling way the railway is governed in this country.

 

[Forty29]

No, on seeing it I thought this programme's not for me. Couldn't get the relevance of an American steamer.

They probably thought it's a train so we'll use it!