The Great Railway Disaster (Ben Elton programme)

[island]

Ben Elton will front a show with the above name tomorrow (Monday 26) at 8pm on Channel 4. It seems it will focus on TPE and contrast it with services in the south such as the Elizabeth line line. Probably worth tuning in.

 

[Bantamzen]

Ben Elton will front a show with the above name tomorrow (Monday 26) at 8pm on Channel 4. It seems it will focus on TPE and contrast it with services in the south such as the Elizabeth line line. Probably worth tuning in.

I can't think of anyone better to provide a thoughtful, and unbiased insight into the problems...

<sarcasm /off>

 

[185]

Be interesting to see Elton's take on the popular murder mystery Who killed TPE?

- Railnews (June 23) reckon Aslef did it.
- Aslef reckon Firstgroup did it.
- The DfT's Conman Bailey blames the RMT
- The RMT blame the DfT...

etc.. etc...

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The success of the Elizabeth Line (which was late and far over budget) has to be set against its impact on the performance of TfL as a whole.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Ben Elton will front a show with the above name tomorrow (Monday 26) at 8pm on Channel 4. It seems it will focus on TPE and contrast it with services in the south such as the Elizabeth line line. Probably worth tuning in.

Seems that Mr. Elton will be travelling around the country to explore the current state of the railways, a "mess of cancelled and delayed trains, rising ticket prices and creaking infrastructure".

He argues that privatisation is "a failed experiment".

The programme will focus, in particular, on Trans Pennine Express, considered to be "Britain's worst railway line".

 

[Adeagain]

I thought it* was great. Ben Elton for Transport Secretary, or whatever it is called. Nice one, Ben!
Just watched The Great British Train Robbery by said Ben.

 

[geoffk]

Just watched it. OK he's a comedian, not an economist nor a transport expert. "The railway is locked into a spiral of managed decline" he said at the end. Was he right?

 

[Westerndiesels]

I thought someone had already started a discussion on this but I cannot find it so please delete if there is.

I enjoyed the programme, anything with trains in it floats my boat, but felt he didn't give a fair crack to some of the positive things that have happened or happening. East West rail for instance, proposed improvements to Huddersfield etc.

He made some good points though but I guess we could argue all day about what's wrong and what's right about his programme.

 

[winks]

£64bn more spent on the railways than had the Tory govt left it as British Rail. One of the most efficient rail systems in Europe around the time of privatisation!

 

[GC class B1]

£64bn more spent on the railways than had the Tory govt left it as British Rail. One of the most efficient rail systems in Europe around the time of privatisation!

I agree entirely. A triumph of political ideology over common sense and logical thinking.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Interesting and funny at times, some good pictures, eg under the Ordsall Chord.
Less happy with his interviews, the Leamside line closure was not down to privatisation, and a line is reopening near Newcastle, just not that one.
Mark Smith always talks sense, but I don't know why Gareth Dennis always gets airtime, he's an engineer not a rail economist.
He didn't touch on the industrial relations issues and "modernisation", or the black hole of Covid.
But there's only so much you can say before the public switch off, as it's just too complex a subject.

 

[Class 170101]

Not sure it added much actually just seemed like another individual letting off steam sadly.

 

[43066]

I’m assuming it can be distilled down to “nationalisation good, privatisation bad?” propaganda?

In which case I won’t even bother watching it.

 

[Andymo]

Interesting and funny at times, some good pictures, eg under the Ordsall Chord.
Less happy with his interviews, the Leamside line closure was not down to privatisation, and a line is reopening in Northumberland, just not that one.
Mark Smith always talks sense, but I don't know why Gareth Dennis always gets airtime, he's an engineer not a rail economist.
He didn't touch on the industrial relations issues and "modernisation", or the black hole of Covid.
But there's only so much you can say before the public switch off, as it's just too complex a subject.

The Leamside isn’t in Northumberland

 

[Killingworth]

The title clearly indicated the direction of travel and the industry has been set up for such exposes for at least 100 years, 1992 just the latest reorganisation.

For those with knowledge of the industry it was over simplistic and missed masses of detail most on tbis forum would have wanted to add I'm blessed if I know where all the extra money is supposed to come from to better maintain and improve existing tracks let alone to reopen all those long dead lines, AND reduce fares.

However the Elizabeth line was a positive in a sea of gloom. The Ordall chord, oh dear! As part of the Manchester Hub, that became the Northern Hub, it was part of a greater scheme including Piccadilly platforms 15/16 (separate thread).

Curiously, possibly coincidently, some was filmed at Dore & Totley where a small part of the Northern Hub work could be seen in progress in the background. They could have told how the Hope Valley Capacity Scheme won't deliver the planned benefits because improvements in Manchester wont be done - like 15/16! But it will improve a bottlenck created by British Rail.

The lady commuting from Sheffield to Oxford Road now has 2 trains an hour instead of one, now through to Liverpool although direct airport services werre lost TPE were the principal fall guys but it was an EMR service that got her home.

 

[Magdalia]

But there's only so much you can say before the public switch off, as it's just too complex a subject.

I thought it a good bit of TV. Taking the old BBC Reithian objectives to inform, educate and entertain I thought that it ticked all the boxes.

Yes, it was a polemic, and, yes, it wasn't possible to consider every angle of a complex subject in less than an hour. Within those constraints, the first half, covering Manchester and Huddersfield, I thought was very effective, but the second half less so. I didn't come away convinced that Leamside needed to be reopened, for example.

I wonder how many people watched?

 

[Cletus]

It was an interesting programme, but I don't think I learned anything new. I was surprised that the strikes weren't mentioned at all?

 

[Lost property]

I watched, and enjoyed, the programme given I like Ben Elton and it was nice to see his satire is undiminished.

I wondered how it would be reviewed on here, given the mix of professional and enthusiasts, and the comments so far confirm what could be expected.

I did "like " the reminder of Major saying how beneficial privatisation was going to be...well it's a Holy Grail after all.

However, I also liked BE's comment as to how deeply the railways are seared into our national consciousness and why they are as essential today, and for the future, as they always have been.

 

[mpthomson]

The title clearly indicated the direction of travel and the industry has been set up for such exposes for at least 100 years, 1992 just the latest reorganisation.

For those with knowledge of the industry it was over simplistic and missed masses of detail most on tbis forum would have wanted to add I'm blessed if I know where all the extra money is supposed to come from to better maintain and improve existing tracks let alone to reopen all those long dead lines, AND reduce fares.

However the Elizabeth line was a positive in a sea of gloom. The Ordall chord, oh dear! As part of the Manchester Hub, that became the Northern Hub, it was part of a greater scheme including Piccadilly platforms 15/16 (separate thread).

Curiously, possibly coincidently, some was filmed at Dore & Totley where a small part of the Northern Hub work could be seen in progress in the background. They could have told how the Hope Valley Capacity Scheme won't deliver the planned benefits because improvements in Manchester wont be done - like 15/16! But it will improve a bottlenck created by British Rail.

The lady commuting from Sheffield to Oxford Road now has 2 trains an hour instead of one, now through to Liverpool although direct airport services werre lost TPE were the principal fall guys but it was an EMR service that got her home.

To be fair it was designed to appeal to someone with little awareness (ie most of the travelling public), rather than anyone with knowledge of the industry. So it would need to be fairly simplistic and, precisely because of that, without the detail that most on the forum would want to add.

 

[SteveL9]

I’m assuming it can be distilled down to “nationalisation good, privatisation bad?” propaganda?

In which case I won’t even bother watching it.

The point was made that an additional cost of £64bn has been incurred due to privatisation that would not have been incurred if the industry had remained nationalised.

I’m not an expert but difficult to understand why this is a good thing?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Leamside isn’t in Northumberland

I realised that at about 3am.
But the point is that there are some re-openings happening, if not as many as folk would like.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

The point was made that an additional cost of £64bn has been incurred due to privatisation that would not have been incurred if the industry had remained nationalised.

I’m not an expert but difficult to understand why this is a good thing?

It perhaps is if you are a bank or financial institution, and/or owner of a ROSCO.

 

[AndrewE]

It perhaps is if you are a bank or financial institution, and/or owner of a ROSCO.

... or an accountant, or an insurer, or a professional Company Director... I'm sure there are loads more on the gravy train too.

 

[JW4]

@Ashley Hill Thatcher did not in fact get a single mention, they chose Major instead

 

[yorksrob]

Well, it was Major's flagship policy !

 

[AndrewE]

Well, it was Major's flagship policy !

because She chose not to go there, for whatever reason. I don't know why she saw it as a privatisation too far.
Maybe common sense over-ruled doctrine for once? (Or her friends couldn't see how to milk it in the short term - which is what happened on most of the others during her reign.)

 

[Trackman]

It was an interesting programme, but I don't think I learned anything new. I was surprised that the strikes weren't mentioned at all?

Yes, it was interesting and I didn't learn anything new. As for strikes, I suppose they did in a way likewise with staff shortages, but it's opening a whole new subject for the TV programme - the focus was on Railways in general.

 

[yorksrob]

because She chose not to go there, for whatever reason. I don't know why she saw it as a privatisation too far.
Maybe common sense over-ruled doctrine for once? (Or her friends couldn't see how to milk it in the short term - which is what happened on most of the others during her reign.)

Indeed. Mrs T did well to steer clear.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Looks like DfT gagged NR and the TOCs from appearing so no view from inside the industry as to what the underlying issues are nor a counter view that some elements of privatisation were favourable for the industry.

Anyhow nothing wrong with exposing the industries problems to a wider audience not that it will change one iota Harpers thinking.

 

[Horizon22]

I gave it a watch.

There was some hyperbole regarding the elements of privatisation (a particular statement about train crew that was so simplified as to be false) and a lack of understanding that nationalisation doesn't really matter if the funding isn't there anyway (although I thought Mark Smith spoke well on that) but overall not a bad show for the average member of the public, who ultimately is far less informed (and cares less!) than the users of this forum; as others have said I didn't really learn much, although the £64bn figure was quite eye-opening.

The show gave some insights into some of the fundamental problems and historic elements in a easily navigable way and touched on GBR nicely too.