The London Bridge “our station staff” announcement…

[bramling]

He would have been exactly the same had he not heard an announcement telling him to be kind. Staff assaults are as high as they have ever been and so are the “be kind” communications. There’s no evidence they work.

What would deter this sort of behaviour is stronger enforcement of the law, but this is Britain. We are an incredibly low effort country to the point where some people getting issued death threats at work think a sign and an announcement is part of dealing with the problem. It is an unbelievably rotted culture.

This is another thread I’ll show a Dutch friend who I met in London recently. They’d landed just that morning and spent the day on London’s transit, and their first question was basically “what the hell is with all the patronising announcements about not abusing people?”

There are lots of problems with “Be Kind” culture and it’s quite depressing how deeply it has gripped our necrotic social order.

It’s all a symptom of a country where the state seems to increasingly view the population as nothing more than a bit of brown stuff on their shoe, and at the same time a state that is proving increasingly ineffective at doing what it’s meant to be there to do.j

“We can’t do anything at all to actually make your lives better, but here’s a load of patronising announcements to treat you like children, and here’s a voucher for a tacky discount dinner that you didn’t even want”.

 

[adc82140]

I know this has been discussed to Kingdom come, but why are we subjected to all this noise, when in France, the only station announcements are train destination and calling points. Is the French railway network any less safe as a result? I believe not.

 

[Lewisham2221]

this creates a dumbed down environment where everyone is treated like children.

I suspect someone somewhere has done some research that shows people get their knickers in a twist about the "hostile environment" created by notices/announcements etc that gives strict instructions (see also correspondence with customer services departments) that results in all the fluffy, "friendly" language used. It's a bit cringe worthy, but in a culture where an offenders first response is often "where does it say I can't do xxx?" it serves some sort of purpose. You win some, you lose some.

Unfortunately we live in a society where a seemingly increasing number of people do need to be treated like children:

• Don't try to touch the train whilst it's pulling into the platform
• Let people off the train first
• Use all the doors
• Yes, you do need a ticket
• No, you can't use your wifes/uncles/sisters/friends/fathers photo Oyster card/Freedom pass - there's a reason it has their photo on it...
• Railcard? You need it with you, and it needs to be in date.
• Tickets which say "booked train only" are, surprisingly, only valid on the booked train
• Keep your phone sufficiently charged to be able to show your e-ticket.
• Feet off seats
• Bags off seats
• Put your litter in the bin
• Use your headphones instead of subjecting the whole train to your tiktok nonsense
• No vaping or smoking

And that's just some of the railway related examples which we see regularly on these forums.

Clearly, a balance needs to be struck between creating a hostile environment and a patronising environment, but either way I like to think I'm grown up enough to go about my daily business without getting upset about some announcements.

 

[Purple Train]

I suspect someone somewhere has done some research that shows people get their knickers in a twist about the "hostile environment" created by notices/announcements etc that gives strict instructions (see also correspondence with customer services departments) that results in all the fluffy, "friendly" language used. It's a bit cringe worthy, but in a culture where an offenders first response is often "where does it say I can't do xxx?" it serves some sort of purpose. You win some, you lose some.

Unfortunately we live in a society where a seemingly increasing number of people do need to be treated like children:

• Don't try to touch the train whilst it's pulling into the platform
• Let people off the train first
• Use all the doors
• Yes, you do need a ticket
• No, you can't use your wifes/uncles/sisters/friends/fathers photo Oyster card/Freedom pass - there's a reason it has their photo on it...
• Railcard? You need it with you, and it needs to be in date.
• Tickets which say "booked train only" are, surprisingly, only valid on the booked train
• Keep your phone sufficiently charged to be able to show your e-ticket.
• Feet off seats
• Bags off seats
• Put your litter in the bin
• Use your headphones instead of subjecting the whole train to your tiktok nonsense
• No vaping or smoking

And that's just some of the railway related examples which we see regularly on these forums.

Clearly, a balance needs to be struck between creating a hostile environment and a patronising environment, but either way I like to think I'm grown up enough to go about my daily business without getting upset about some announcements.

I agree with the entire post, but particularly the bit I've bolded. Yes, the constant announcements are a pain, but turning them off won't fix anything - it needs far wider cultural and societal changes that are beyond the power of any of us as individuals, as it's individualism that's most of the problem.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I like to think I'm grown up enough to go about my daily business without getting upset about some announcements.

Bit of a unnecessary dig but okay, yes I do agree with everything else you’ve said. Whilst I sympathise for people who’s railcard has run out without any warning (thankfully Great Northern, for some reason, sent me a reminder mine was running out recently), the railway unfortunately is a great place to witness the endemic carelessness in British (English?) culture.

 

[Harpo]

I like to think I'm grown up enough to go about my daily business without getting upset about some announcements.

If you care enough about the industry, it is upsetting. The very small proportion of announcements that actually add value for customers are possibly getting missed now because of the need to ignore all of the other aural mitherings.

 

[Deepgreen]

If you care enough about the industry, it is upsetting. The very small proportion of announcements that actually add value for customers are possibly getting missed now because of the need to ignore all of the other aural mitherings.

Exactly! I am a career railway employee and so I admit I know how to behave on and around trains better than some, BUT, basic common sense covers almost all the announcements these days. I think the underlying issue is commercial/legal risk-aversion - "well, you didn't TELL me (audibly) that I need a ticket", etc. It continues to spiral, and I also suspect that teams of junior managers sit around poring over incident reports and trying to see if any possible scenario is not covered by announcements. Let's get back to 'less is more' thinking... Please be aware, this post may stop suddenl

 

[Bikeman78]

I feel the same about similar signs in supermarkets. It offends the well behaved customers who make up the majority whilst those inclined to be abusive won't change their mind by a sign being there. Pointless, tokenistic virtue signalling.

It seems to be widespread across the UK, not only on railways. I have been in Europe for a week and this type of thing is much less prevalent. I'm sure there are plenty of obnoxious people there too.

 

[Krokodil]

Not directed at any particular individual, but most unpleasant and abusive passengers don’t think they’re being unpleasant or abusive

In my experience the most unpleasant and abusive passengers tend to be aided by alcohol or other intoxicants...

Bear in mind that London Bridge has a high proportion of the most unpleasant and abusive type of passenger - the entitled wealthy commuter

... but the type I encounter is more likely to spend his week in a six by eight cell, not a six by six cubicle. The people who have properly kicked off at me invariably turn out to be known to the criminal justice system.

People on this forum really do get the hump about announcements in the weirdest ways. Staff abuse is at record levels. Within the last year, station staff have been injured in life-changing ways or even killed. Unfortunately announcements are universal and just because one person feels "parented" it is helpful to have and some may appreciate it. I have heard similar announcements and signage in retail establishments too.

It's a simple reminder that behaviour is not tolerated. It shouldn't be required but sadly it is.

As a member of staff who has signed more BTP statements than I can count, I have absolutely no confidence that this announcement will make the slightest bit of difference to passenger behaviour.

The effective ways for a TOC to protect its staff are to make sure that the CCTV is of good quality, that staff are provided with bodyworn cameras, and to work with BTP to prosecute offenders. But those involve actually doing something, it's much easier to record an announcement and tick a box.

The problem is now that everything has to be so wordy for some reason. The 1970s post was concise and to the point.

Considering that we live in an age where media is reduced to a 280 character soundbyte and politicians have discovered the magic of three-word slogans, I find it incredible how railway management routinely default to extended waffle. I can vaguely recall the covid announcements they came up with. One was set up to play onboard when doors opened, and waffled on for more than five minutes (unless it got cut off by the doors closing, which it usually did). I wonder if this is a consequences of farming this stuff off to graduates rather than people with any experience - it takes time to break the habit of waffling on to fill a word count.

 

[Horizon22]

As a member of staff who has signed more BTP statements than I can count, I have absolutely no confidence that this announcement will make the slightest bit of difference to passenger behaviour.

The effective ways for a TOC to protect its staff are to make sure that the CCTV is of good quality, that staff are provided with bodyworn cameras, and to work with BTP to prosecute offenders. But those involve actually doing something, it's much easier to record an announcement and tick a box.

Having an announcement does not preclude these things nor should be a replacement for them. It however costs almost nothing to do, whilst the other effective ways - e.g. better resourcing of the BTP - is unfortunately much more resource heavy and costlier. I have seen BW cameras being rolled out more though, presumably as they’ve gotten cheaper and easier to use.

 

[Bishopstone]

A problem has been recognised. The most effective way of dealing with it would be an enhanced BTP (or similar) presence, but that would be expensive and there's no budget. Also, stepping-up enforcement too much creates opposite risks of the enforcers becoming over-zealous, leading to sob stories - including on railway forums - about how wronged people feel by the oppressive security presence on the railways etc.

If 'more BTP' was the answer, though, then you'd need to say how you'd pay for them. Passengers don't want to pay higher fares, staff don't want lower wages, and few people are willing to pay more tax personally, or vote for that outcome.

So they record announcements and put up posters instead, and hope for the best.

 

[AlterEgo]

It seems to be widespread across the UK, not only on railways. I have been in Europe for a week and this type of thing is much less prevalent. I'm sure there are plenty of obnoxious people there too.

It is a cringe cultural issue pretty much unique to the UK. “Be Kind” could only originate here, too. People (and especially customers) are under no obligation to be kind.

 

[trainophile]

It is a cringe cultural issue pretty much unique to the UK. “Be Kind” could only originate here, too. People (and especially customers) are under no obligation to be kind.

... Whatever "be kind" means. It's pretty nebulous as a general concept to most people. In this context it's totally meaningless. Offer the guard a sweet? Smile at a stranger? Give a small child a fiver?

 

[adc82140]

At work (non railway) I've found that "be kind" is used to deflect from picking up someone, quite diplomatically, who isn't doing their job properly or being told something they don't want to hear. I really hate it. It's the workplace, not a kindergarten.

 

[deltic]

An FOI request to TfL asked - https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transp.../foi-request-detail?referenceId=FOI-1507-2223

Can you provide details of any research undertaken by TfL as to the effectiveness of its automated safety announcements on the TfL network in changing peoples' behaviour and improving safety

the answer was quite revealing

TfL does not hold the requested information as no research has been undertaken on this specific topic. Research such as this would be unlikely to establish a correlation between announcements of a specific kind and safety outcomes. Behaviour change when it comes to safety is generally about behaviours that do not happen - i.e. people not being careless or not taking risks - and it is hard to research behaviours that don’t happen, making research based on empirical observation virtually impossible. That said, I understand that there have been studies over the years that show that most customers expect us to issue safety announcements as part of our duty of care. Furthermore, whilst people like live, real time announcements, the clear audibility and regularity of automated ones means that the relevant information is guaranteed to be communicated clearly to the maximum number of people.

 

[MrJeeves]

Quite honestly, the most annoying thing about this announcement at London Bridge is that it seems to just play over and over and over again. I've waited between two Thameslink trains for about 12 minutes, and I'm sure I heard it play at least three or four times.

I doubt the people who make these announcements seem required in the UK pay any attention to them anyway.

 

[Bikeman78]

It is a cringe cultural issue pretty much unique to the UK. “Be Kind” could only originate here, too. People (and especially customers) are under no obligation to be kind.

Agreed. I want people to provide whatever service they offer quickly and efficiently. Beyond that, I don't care what they do, so long as they are not rude. As for being kind, if I see someone that needs help with luggage or a buggy, then I crack on and help them. It's common courtesy. I don't need an announcement to tell me to do that.

 

[BrummieBobby]

I find these automated announcements to be utterly pointless.

A few years back, my local station (Unstaffed on a Sunday) saw a fairly serious assault on a Sunday afternoon. A few weeks later I visited on a Sunday an was treated to an automated announcement telling me to "stand back from the edge, don't run, we want you to be safe on tbe railway!" This was repeated every 5 minutes.

Seemed to me that the didn't want to make it safer by adequately staffing the station (That would be far to costly) but we're happy to insult people's intelligence with this drivel. It was literally one step up from reminding adults not to run with scissors...

 

[yorkie]

If everyone purchased a correct ticket then we wouldn't need revenue checks or ticket barriers. Should we remove them because only a minority don't abide by the rules?

This is what's known as a false equivalence; an announcement isn't in any way equivalent to a ticket check.

If you care enough about the industry, it is upsetting. The very small proportion of announcements that actually add value for customers are possibly getting missed now because of the need to ignore all of the other aural mitherings.

I wouldn't say upsetting, but I agree with those who see such announcements as being pointless and/or patronising.

I agree with those who say that the people who need to heed this advice won't do so anyway.

Unless I am travelling with a group, I will frequently have noise-cancelling headphones on, which means I won't hear any announcements. This could be a good solution for many, and indeed I see more people doing this than ever before.

Obviously, I need to be careful to check screens, but then a deaf person would be in the same position anyway.

 

[NewcastleBrown]

The interesting thing about the rise in all these notices over the previous few years is that by official statistics violent crime has fairly consistently decreased since the mid-90s (based on the ONS Crime Survey, which is seen as the most reliable method), which would imply that any internal increase is either hotspots in certain areas (which should have proper BTP resource deployed to clamp down on) or better reporting of people no longer being willing to shrug things off that they shouldn't have to take

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

"Any abuse & assault of rail staff could result in intervention by British Transport Police and your possible arrest. You could be taken to the cells and could get a criminal conviction for assault.

You really think “you could be taken to the cells” is appropriate to play on the UK’s national railway network on the hour?

 

[Lewisham2221]

You really think “you could be taken to the cells” is appropriate to play on the UK’s national railway network on the hour?

And this is why we end up with the use of fluffy patronising language...

 

[yorkie]

And this is why we end up with the use of fluffy patronising language...

It's not a binary choice.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

And this is why we end up with the use of fluffy patronising language...

Why is it so hard to just find a decent balance? It's not two exclusive options of either extremely hostile or primary school teacher.

If we MUST have these announcements, bearing in mind posters and signs would be much less intrusive, then something like "Please bear in mind that abuse and threatening language is not tolerated. Offenders may be prosecuted."

That isn't fluffy and silly like "Let's work together!" but it's also not as Black Mirror as a voice over the tannoy threatening to chuck people in cells.

 

[AlterEgo]

And this is why we end up with the use of fluffy patronising language...

Better still, don’t say it at all. People don’t need reminding not to commit crime. This stuff has zero effect.

If I go to a pub with my baby daughter I don’t wear a t-shirt saying “hello, please don’t shout in her face or hit her”. I, like all fathers I’m sure, wouldn’t like a stranger to shout in her face or hit her. Still, nobody goes around with notices saying not to abuse them or hit them. Ever wonder why that is?

I find it astounding that anyone who has ever worked front line or suffered abuse from customers thinks this is part of the solution. You’re being conned by management that they’re taking action here. Despite the proliferation of all this guff staff assaults are still at a near all time high.

 

[Lewisham2221]

It's not a binary choice.

Why is it so hard to just find a decent balance? It's not two exclusive options of either extremely hostile or primary school teacher.

If we MUST have these announcements, bearing in mind posters and signs would be much less intrusive, then something like "Please bear in mind that abuse and threatening language is not tolerated. Offenders may be prosecuted."

That isn't fluffy and silly like "Let's work together!" but it's also not as Black Mirror as a voice over the tannoy threatening to chuck people in cells.

Because I rather suspect that the "primary school teacher" language is likely to generate far fewer actual complaints (as opposed to moans on an enthusiast forum) than the "Black Mirror" language. So the powers that be (annoyingly, I admit) err on the side of caution and opt for extra fluffy, so as to avoid the risk of including hostile language.

Of course, in an ideal world everybody would behave themselves and there would be adequate and appropriate enforcement against those that don't. One can only dream, sadly.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Better still, don’t say it at all. People don’t need reminding not to commit crime. This stuff has zero effect.

If I go to a pub with my baby daughter I don’t wear a t-shirt saying “hello, please don’t shout in her face or hit her”. I, like all fathers I’m sure, wouldn’t like a stranger to shout in her face or hit her. Still, nobody goes around with notices saying not to abuse them or hit them. Ever wonder why that is?

I find it astounding that anyone who has ever worked front line or suffered abuse from customers thinks this is part of the solution. You’re being conned by management that they’re taking action here. Despite the proliferation of all this guff staff assaults are still at a near all time high.

Exactly, it's ridiculous.

 

[yorkie]

Because I rather suspect that the "primary school teacher" language is likely to generate far fewer actual complaints (as opposed to moans on an enthusiast forum) than the "Black Mirror" language. So the powers that be (annoyingly, I admit) err on the side of caution and opt for extra fluffy, so as to avoid the risk of including hostile language.

Of course, in an ideal world everybody would behave themselves and there would be adequate and appropriate enforcement against those that don't. One can only dream, sadly.

There are many other examples of where a minority don't behave, and yet such announcements are not made.

So I don't accept your argument. But I'm not prepared to go round in circles again; we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Lewisham2221]

There are many other examples of where a minority don't behave, and yet such announcements are not made.

There certainly are, I agree. In fact I listed some of them in my earlier post. Surely your not suggesting that more announcements are needed?

So I don't accept your argument. But I'm not prepared to go round in circles again; we will have to agree to disagree.

I'm not quite sure what argument of mine you're not accepting? All I've done is explain the rationale behind the choice of language. I've even admitted that it is mildly annoying - there's just other things I'd rather get wound up about.

Unless you're disagreeing on my point about people behaving themselves and adequate enforcement action against those who don't? But that would be utterly bizarre.

 

[styles]

Researching the impact of such announcements to determine whether or not they actually make a difference, is complex.

This PhD Thesis from a researcher at the University of Sheffield is a detailed study of 'manner posters' on the Japanese urban railway network: https://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/id/eprint/31169/

I can only really post the abstract as the full works are 208 pages:

Abstract​

Signage communicating behavioural expectations is a common sight in contemporary cities. This is particularly evident in spaces of urban mass transit, as public transport providers frequently utilise media technologies such as posters and notices to tackle passenger behaviours they consider dangerous, deviant, or otherwise undesirable. Despite the prevalence of such semiotic interventions in passenger conduct in public transport environments globally (Bissell, 2018; Butcher, 2011; Moore, 2010), they have rarely become the focus of social scientific study. This thesis addresses this shortcoming through an in-depth examination of ‘manner poster’ initiatives by railway providers in Tokyo, which stand out globally due to their near-ubiquitous presence in trains and stations in the city, their often cute and/or comic design, and the broad range of micro-behaviours targeted by them. Drawing on expert interviews with individuals involved in manner posters’ creation, analysis of industry documents, visual analysis of posters, and transit ethnography, the thesis presents an comprehensive empirical examination of manner posters as a genre of communication and governmental technology. It zooms in on three aspects of the media phenomenon: 1) manner posters’ textual structure and history, 2) the corporate considerations and concerns driving poster design and deployment, and 3) the visual strategies poster designers employ to problematise passenger conduct. Contrary to prior research which framed interventions in passenger behaviour as a form of social control, the thesis highlights that manner poster initiatives are not driven by regulatory will, but rather guided by corporate considerations of customer service, sensibilities, and satisfaction. It presents a interdisciplinary study which is situated at the intersection (and advances our understanding) of four areas of scholarship: 1) routine incivilities and their regulation, 2) the production and regulation of urban mobilities, 3) signage in urban spaces, and 4) urban railways in Japan.

Something I've bookmarked to read in full later in the week.

I am not personally convinced that an announcement merely stating abuse will not be tolerated will have a noticeable effect on incidence or severity or abuse incidents. Perhaps if the announcement conveyed something about what action may be taken in response, or attempted to highlight the presence of BTP, or something, it may have an effect on the less severe events though.

It's one of the few announcements I don't really begrudge to be honest. Things train managers reading the full buffet car menu are not imo on the same level as safety announcements.