The Lymington shuttle 158

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1018509

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From a thread on District Dave's Underground Forum mentioning the Lymington shuttle class 158 DMU, and its Monday to Thursday nights stabling arrangements - does the unit stable Monday to Thursday night at Bournemouth TMD before its return for the weekend to - Salisbury - ??

I ask because I mentioned I can see the Weymouth main line to from my lounge and although I have seen several 158's I haven't seen, or rather heard, one early morning or late at night.

Doesn't mean it doesn't run of course - could be my ears need syringing.
 
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anthony263

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Yes I think it does stable at Bournemouth and returns attached to a service from Portsmouth Hbr at Southampton Central until it is detached at Salisbury I believe.

I believe it does something similar when the unit comes down from Salisbury very early on a monday morning.
 

Oracle

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On a Friday night it runs to Southampton Central ECS: we saw it on the Test causeway at 23.08 one Friday night, stopped at the signal gantry. On the Monday morning I assume it runs to Central on a service train, gets detached and then runs into P1 direct using the rare points at Brockenhurst from the Down line.
 
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Lrd

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I have seen it on a Monday morning at about 0515 just going fast through Millbrook on it's way to Brockenhurst. I think its empty from Salisbury.
 

CC 72100

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Am I the only one thinking that such a diagram is a bit of a waste of a 158? I know SWT don't have anything more suitable themselves, but surely it could be better utilised somewhere, with a unit swap... or am I being totally unrealistic :P
 

bluenoxid

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No you are not being unrealistic about another train being utilised. I would prefer to see a 456 or 313 being used instead rather than a 158, which could be pushing through to Exeter.

Unfortunately, too many people find it easy to point at money or contracts until you start to realise that with a little bit of welly and focus, we can achieve a lot.
 

Southern

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Monday's, it's tagged on the back of a Salisbury Depot - Southampton ECS working which arrives to form the 0542 to Eastleigh. Open Train Times shows it as booked into Platform 3 at Brockenhurst. Tuesday - Friday, it's booked from Platform 1 after arriving ECS from Bournemouth Depot. It runs ECS to Southampton on Friday night, before attaching to another 158 for 2320 to Romsey.
 

BestWestern

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Am I the only one thinking that such a diagram is a bit of a waste of a 158? I know SWT don't have anything more suitable themselves, but surely it could be better utilised somewhere, with a unit swap... or am I being totally unrealistic :P

Nope, I totally agree also. SWT seem to be blessed with a very generous allocation of DMU's, which grates a little if you're presiding over a packed out similar unit run by another TOC who have no such luxury. Using a 158 on a dinky little shuttle service, over infrastructure which is fully electrified, is pretty much pure indulgence. It might only be one unit, but one unit can make a lot of difference. To illustrate how daft it is, as well as sending a 158 up and down the Limmy all day they have another one on daily hire to FGW. So that's at least two 158's which are clearly surplus to more appropriate requirements. Why not just permanently transfer one to FGW where there is clearly a greater need, reducing pressure on FGW's fleet and lowering SWT's lease costs?! It does make you wonder! :|
 

Robbies

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A class 313 would be better to be used on the Lymington route, but I am not sure any are available and SWT like most TOC's want to be able to use a standard fleet hence why I think a class 158 is used which I agree is a waste. On the basis of using trains from the SWT standard fleet, why can they not use a class 455 unit?
 

hairyhandedfool

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Aren't they all maintained in London? so that might mean staff being trained just to get the unit out to Brockenhurst. Using another type of unit (that SWT don't have, like a 313) would require driver training, maintainance staff training, spares aquisition and possibly clearance runs (a formality I'm sure), It's a lot of effort to go to. Oh and they'd probably need two (like they did with the slam door stock) so that is paying for a train to sit around doing nothing all day.

Much easier and cost effective to use a unit they already have.
 

jopsuk

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455s go down to Bournemouth for some of their maintenance quite often, don't they? Still not a great plan, but not as insurmountable as you might think- the clearance, training etc would only be needed for the branch, and it might be possible to swap the unit regularly as part of the visit schedule.
 

Schnellzug

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I think the reason is simply that they don't have any Desiros spare, and I expect the same applies to 455s (which are surely used to capacity during the week at least) and to allocate anything else, something completely new, would need staff training & so on.
 

starrymarkb

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I believe the additional 158s were squired for a new service that didn't happen (a shuttle Exeter to Honiton in connection with the new town of Cranbrook*) - Cranbrook was due for completion in 2010 (and would have had a new double track station). Construction has only just begun (so far there are 3 houses by the old A30) but the station has been scaled back to single platform with no passing loop (but space provided to double later)

*I believe the station and shuttle was a condition of planning permission, though I've also heard BRT being mooted.
 

Aictos

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Even if Southern for example were able to supply two of their 313s to run the shuttle service, it will never happen which is a shame as using a DMU on a fully electrified line when it's obvious that the operator does have surplus DMUs which are needed urgently elsewhere by other operators.
 

starrymarkb

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But they don't have surplus EMUs (unless you propose digging a 508 out of long term storage), a DMU on a non electric line might be a waste in some eyes, but so would using a 4 car EMU when only 2 coaches are needed. That EMU would be better used to strengthen the London services
 

swt_passenger

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I believe the additional 158s were squired for a new service that didn't happen (a shuttle Exeter to Honiton in connection with the new town of Cranbrook*) - Cranbrook was due for completion in 2010 (and would have had a new double track station).

In a discussion with management at Salsibury a few years ago they mentioned that the overall number of 158s leased was to allow for a further 10 car Salisbury - Waterloo service in the peaks, ie to extend a service currently running as a pair of 159s - 3+3+2+2. A number of platforms were extended to allow for 10 car services, but currently only one train runs as ten car in the am peak up direction.

But as we've discussed before, they aren't the only 158s SWT use solely over the third rail, just this one comes in for the most criticism - because it replaced the slammers. They should ideally have about half a dozen extra four car EMUs to release 158s from other uses.
 

4SRKT

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But as we've discussed before, they aren't the only 158s SWT use solely over the third rail, just this one comes in for the most criticism - because it replaced the slammers.

Maybe not, but it is the only fully electrified line operated 100% by diesel units, which is slightly different.
 

swt_passenger

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Maybe not, but it is the only fully electrified line operated 100% by diesel units, which is slightly different.

It's relevant to the economics of the 'small subfleet of unusual traction long way from depot' feature of the debate. Taking on an extra 455 or equivalent to cover one route comes up with that obvious problem. But taking on 10 or so 455s from SN if they became available, would either allow for ALL those odd 'South Hants Local' peak extras to be run with similar stock (based in the area), or for the Wimbledon based fleet to be increased to cascade 450s westwards.

I think treating it as a 'single unit' issue is the wrong way of achieving change. To the politicians, the day to day use of a single unit is well below the radar, but a reasonable number of 158/159s would be very useful in those mainly DMU operated areas, such as Bristol, or up with Northern or EMT.
 

4SRKT

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I agree about the sub-fleet thing. SWT are quite right to use a 158 on this line, and should do so at weekends as well as I can't believe a 450 is cheaper to operate. Is switching off the third rail an option, effectively mothballing the eletrification?
 

starrymarkb

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I agree about the sub-fleet thing. SWT are quite right to use a 158 on this line, and should do so at weekends as well as I can't believe a 450 is cheaper to operate. Is switching off the third rail an option, effectively mothballing the eletrification?

It's more because the 450 fleet has a lot more slack at the weekend (and Northam is nearer then Salisbury). I guess a 450 would also be spare between the peaks, but then you'd have to swap out the 158 mid morning and have it back on the branch mid afternoon for the 450 to go back to London for the evening rush. It makes more sense to leave the 158 there all day and do the current arrangement, the weekend gives a good opportunity to swap units (especially as the unit from Sailsbury arrives on a Monday attached to an early ECS move for a Diesel Peak Extra)
 

swt_passenger

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Where does the sole remaining morning Totton reverser come from ECS and go to please?

Fratton Depot at 04+45 - once it's left Totton at 0612 for Redbridge it is basically the first of the trains in the normal Salisbury to Romsey diagram and continues all day, and goes back to Salisbury at close of play. Out of interest the first train off Salisbury is an odd one, because it continues from Romsey in the Chandlers Ford direction, so the service starts in an off pattern way in both directions...

I think there are still the two 158s stable overnight at Fratton, one of which does a South Hants diagram that returns to Fratton and the other comes off the 0030 Eastleigh to Portsmouth Harbour service, that latter diagram would have started from Salisbury earlier in the day.
 
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BestWestern

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I think there are still the two 158s stable overnight at Fratton, one of which does a South Hants diagram that returns to Fratton and the other comes off the 0030 Eastleigh to Portsmouth Harbour service, that latter diagram would have started from Salisbury earlier in the day.

There are indeed usually a couple of dirty diesels asleep at FTN of an evening :)
 

swt_passenger

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On the rare occasions that the branch 158 has failed during the week, they've usually brought out a 450 as a replacement. Just to aid any conspiracy theories... :D
 

TEW

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They haven't got any 458s spare either. They're used pretty intensively on weekdays.
 
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