the most over the top restrictions introduced

[trebor79]

Oh my, what a lot of whinging about being made to wait outside a shop.

It's not exactly the greatest hardship in the world, is it? Certainly nothing I'd describe as "over the top". Especially considering that it sounds like the person serving asked very professionally and politely, and had a good reason to do so.

He had no reason to do so. It took the number of individuals (and "bubbles") in the shop down from 7 to 6. There's no close contact between customers, and certainly not for 15 minutes or more.
It's facile.

Here's another. We were going to stop at Highclere on our way home, just somewhere for the kids to stretch their legs, have a bite to eat etc. Checked their website. Guess what, limited places available. Doesn't matter if you want to go in the house or not. Apparently it's impossible to maintain distancing on a 1,000 acre estate.
If you did want to go in the house, you are allocated a morning or afternoon slot. The morning slot runs from 10am to 1pm. You have to be out of the house by 1pm. So basically everyone is going to arrive for 10. How does that help manage queues?

In the end we stopped at a Wildlife Trust site that had plenty of room to exercise, toilets and a cafe. Free other than donations, no nonsense about booking slots. Enjoyed by the whole family.

It's just absurd. People who know nothing about public health and infection control have been given carte blanche to make up a load of nonsense that we are meant revere and respect. Distancing in outside spaces is absolutely simple. People manage to sort themselves out on the beach and on country walks. It's not difficult and doesn't need a load of petty rules and regulations, especially as at Highclere where they are counterproductive.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Went in a small bakery. 5 staff and 1 other customer.
Young lad serving "Are you in the same bubble? Would you mind waiting outside then please?"
Absolutely ludicrous. Only the other customer masked, none of the staff working cheek by jowl masked, all from different families so mixing of "bubbles" anyway.
Actually yes I did mind, because it's facile.

They clearly have doughnuts in that bakery

 

[trebor79]

Crabbing banned at Felixstowe because two people think that they weren't distancing from the queue for the ferry.

Felixstowe Ferry crabbing banned as people 'get too close'

A harbour master says crabbers have been getting too close to passengers waiting for a foot ferry.

www.bbc.co.uk

The children's pastime of catching crabs on lines from jetties has been banned at a river harbour because people were not social-distancing.

The owners of the Felixstowe foot ferry in Suffolk said they were forced to apply for the council ban on safety grounds.

"It is a working jetty and crabbers were not obeying the Covid restrictions," the operator said.

Article goes on to explain the council imposed the ban after representations from the ferry operator and harbour master. They must be soulless people.

And we descend a little further into absurdity.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I am aware of one care agency which:

a) Won't allow their staff ( i.e. the carers ) into the homes of the people who they call "service users" ( you can tell straight away from that the sort of politically correct nonsense the senior management place great store in! ).

b) Will, however, allow those staff into the gardens of their "service users". Which means the peron they are caring for has to open the side gate to let them through.

c) Will also - and this is the crazy bit - allow the carers to visit coffee shops with the "service users".

Translation: They won't allow a visit into the home, but they are quite happy for both their staff and their charges to ssit and talk in a shop full of random members of the public...

It's complete nonsense devised by morons isn't it?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I am aware of one care agency which:

a) Won't allow their staff ( i.e. the carers ) into the homes of the people who they call "service users" ( you can tell straight away from that the sort of politically correct nonsense the senior management place great store in! ).

b) Will, however, allow those staff into the gardens of their "service users". Which means the peron they are caring for has to open the side gate to let them through.

c) Will also - and this is the crazy bit - allow the carers to visit coffee shops with the "service users".

Translation: They won't allow a visit into the home, but they are quite happy for both their staff and their charges to ssit and talk in a shop full of random members of the public...

It's complete nonsense devised by morons isn't it?

How does the carer dress, medicate or toilet the 'service user' from the garden? Even basic tasks such as cleaning cannot be done without entering the house!

 

[3rd rail land]

I am aware of one care agency which:

a) Won't allow their staff ( i.e. the carers ) into the homes of the people who they call "service users" ( you can tell straight away from that the sort of politically correct nonsense the senior management place great store in! ).

b) Will, however, allow those staff into the gardens of their "service users". Which means the peron they are caring for has to open the side gate to let them through.

c) Will also - and this is the crazy bit - allow the carers to visit coffee shops with the "service users".

Translation: They won't allow a visit into the home, but they are quite happy for both their staff and their charges to ssit and talk in a shop full of random members of the public...

It's complete nonsense devised by morons isn't it?

Truly ludicrous. What if the 'service user' lives in a flat without any outdoor space? Anyway some of the essential tasks of a carer can only be done from inside the property.

As for the coffee shop thing I guess they want the 'service user' to be able to get out and about with the aid of the carer. What about going to the park or other suitable outdoor space nearby instead?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How does the carer dress, medicate or toilet the 'service user' from the garden? Even basic tasks such as cleaning cannot be done without entering the house!

Truly ludicrous. What if the 'service user' lives in a flat without any outdoor space? Anyway some of the essential tasks of a carer can only be done from inside the property.

As for the coffee shop thing I guess they want the 'service user' to be able to get out and about with the aid of the carer. What about going to the park or other suitable outdoor space nearby instead?

Exactly my thoughts, both of you - and for a month or so during the lockdown they weren't even doing any visits at all and simply offering remote support by means of telephone calls. This agency is quite clearly a clueless joke - and it did already have a reputation amongst both the clients and the care staff for incompetent management.

Yes, they are able to go for walks in the park and other open spaces, but that doesn't change the fact that being allowed to go to a coffee shop but not in the houses is beyond ridicule. They really should know better how to judge the respective risk levels shouldn't they?

 

[bramling]

Not sure about “over the top”, however with schools going back and some time off work, we have attempted to restart being active again in terms of doing stuff.

So initially prompted by the notion of the Severn Valley’s diesel day, which to be fair wasn’t too much hassle to book, and whilst it could be seen as a little pricey they have done their best to give something tangible for the money - I like the idea of a totally reserved compartment for the whole day, and it actually releases time as one doesn’t have to worry about things like being on the train ages before departure, et cetera. So full marks there.

However...

We then looked at what else we could do locally, and here the fun starts. Firstly for all the places we were interested in booking is necessary, with a very specific arrival time-slot required, with dire warnings that latecomers will be turned away. Needless to say it’s all non-refundable too.

So to do three things we’ve now essentially ended up with no fewer than *six* bookings, as we decided to get hotel accommodation and do one thing each day - to be fair the hotels are dirt-cheap so it’s a bit of a no brainier if one has the time to spare. Otherwise there’s too much risk of getting held up in transit and missing the slot.

To be honest it’s not wonderful, and over time places are going to have to do better than this. We now have an itinerary which is essentially planned to the minute, and elements of it being non-refundable so we stand to lose money should something unforeseen occur. There’s no flexibility to vary things according to weather, so we could get lumbered with the outdoor elements being during poor weather, as whilst we’ve attempted to dovetail to the weather forecast in reality we know it’s highly likely weather can change.

I shall be glad when we do the disused railway tunnel which we’re hoping to fit in to all that - at least one doesn’t have to book and worry about masks with *that*! Yet in theory this is possibly the riskiest thing we’ll actually be doing.

And of course all this assumes the area doesn’t go into local lockdown right in the middle of all this.

 

[oldman]

My local piece of woodland is on to its third different set of notices on how to be safe. They seem to have given up on the walkers, now it's just the cyclists who need help.

And today I had to provide name and contact number to enter a botanical garden - I was under cover for less than a minute, most of which was spent filling in the form.

 

[DelayRepay]

We then looked at what else we could do locally, and here the fun starts. Firstly for all the places we were interested in booking is necessary, with a very specific arrival time-slot required, with dire warnings that latecomers will be turned away. Needless to say it’s all non-refundable too.

I had the same experience over the bank holiday weekend. My sister and her kids came to visit, and I booked a day out at a local attraction. An arrival time had to be selected, with the dame dire warnings not to be late. We selected 11am thinking that it was not too early, but would give us time to see everything before they closed at 5pm.

We arrived, and found that lots of other people had also chosen 11am. The slots were hourly, so people were certainly not staggered and there was a crowd/queue in the car park before they opened the gate for 11am arrivals. Then, because they also had a one way system, everyone was moving round together in a big crowd and it took quite a while before people had dispersed.

I think their two measures (forced arrival times and one way system) actually meant that there was less distance between families/group than there would normally be. It's not the most over the top restriction I've seen, but it's a badly thought through one. I do sympathise with the management though - they are a new business and I think government/official guidelines are the cause of the problem, not the local management.

The only positive thing was their gift shop is closed (due to Covid!), so we didn't get pressured into spending a fortune on overpriced plastic tat by the kids on the way out, as usually happens.

 

[birchesgreen]

This is my main beef with one way systems, you remain near to the same people for minutes instead of passing people for a split second.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I am aware of one care agency which:

a) Won't allow their staff ( i.e. the carers ) into the homes of the people who they call "service users" ( you can tell straight away from that the sort of politically correct nonsense the senior management place great store in! ).

b) Will, however, allow those staff into the gardens of their "service users". Which means the peron they are caring for has to open the side gate to let them through.

c) Will also - and this is the crazy bit - allow the carers to visit coffee shops with the "service users".

Translation: They won't allow a visit into the home, but they are quite happy for both their staff and their charges to ssit and talk in a shop full of random members of the public...

It's complete nonsense devised by morons isn't it?

All part of this ludicrous world now - I think it's called "collective madness"

Be interesting to learn who this agency is. How can the "service users" receive personal care if the agency don't allow their staff in their homes?

I would be putting in a serious concern/complaint to the Care Quality Commission (CQC) regarding this disgusting practice

 

[adc82140]

Heard this one second hand, so caveats apply re accuracy.

Matalan seem to have removed mirrors from their stores. Apparently when challenged by the person reporting this to me they were told that it was to discourage people holding clothes up against themselves. How come other clothing stores are able to have changing rooms open, and just spray disinfect anything that has been tried on. The USP of clothing stores over online is that you can handle and try on the merchandise. Lose that USP and you lose out to Amazon.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Heard this one second hand, so caveats apply re accuracy.

Matalan seem to have removed mirrors from their stores. Apparently when challenged by the person reporting this to me they were told that it was to discourage people holding clothes up against themselves. How come other clothing stores are able to have changing rooms open, and just spray disinfect anything that has been tried on. The USP of clothing stores over online is that you can handle and try on the merchandise. Lose that USP and you lose out to Amazon.

Eventually, they may understand this point. Probably just as the administrators / receivers / liquidators pull up in the car park!

Just placed my 39th on-line order following the introduction of compulsory face-coverings in shops. Mr Royal Mail and Ms Amazon are very busy bees indeed!

 

[talldave]

Armed police at Bluewater shopping centre today bullying shoppers into mask wearing. That's in addition to yet more additional signage all over the place and Bluewater's own hi-vis mask gestapo hassling non-wearers. Unbelievable. Any pleasure from sauntering around a shopping centre has gone, along with a number of retailers it would seem, since there are endless empty units.

 

[Richard Scott]

Armed police at Bluewater shopping centre today bullying shoppers into mask wearing. That's in addition to yet more additional signage all over the place and Bluewater's own hi-vis mask gestapo hassling non-wearers. Unbelievable. Any pleasure from sauntering around a shopping centre has gone, along with a number of retailers it would seem, since there are endless empty units.

I'd have less of a problem with this is there was a scientifically proven valid point to face coverings but there isn't and also if this virus was the deadly killer we've been led to believe but it isn't. It's all ridiculous hype to allow some people who've never had power to exert their authority. If I'd made a film about all this a year ago people would have said 'how far fetched'.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Armed police at Bluewater shopping centre today bullying shoppers into mask wearing. That's in addition to yet more additional signage all over the place and Bluewater's own hi-vis mask gestapo hassling non-wearers. Unbelievable. Any pleasure from sauntering around a shopping centre has gone, along with a number of retailers it would seem, since there are endless empty units.

Was it busy regardless of the police presence? Were they bullying or asking politely? It is, after all, the law and the police exist to prevent crime.

To anyone bothered by it all (which includes myself) the answer is simple. Vote with your feet and don't go to the shops. The previous limits on supermarket deliveries to the shielded only seem to have been relaxed and slots seem readily available. Amazon and Argos seem to be delivering at their usual standards. Some of the others I have used seem to be struggling a little (Wilkinsons / Hermes and Dunelm / DHL).

If it really bothers someone, make sure you let the retailer know that you deliberately avoided their shop (or indeed whole shopping centre) and why.

 

[mailbyrail]

The plastic barriers used for pavement widening that I reported on in post #140 have mysteriously now disappeared. Traffic is back to normal, parking bays restored and pedestrians back to just the normal pavement. Which is all brilliant news, but I'm left asking myself "what changed?". Which particular statistic have the Council's little hitler brigade been monitoring in order to determine that occasional widened pedestrian space is no longer required? Or perhaps the claims for twisted ankles as pedestrians negotiated the kerbs and tarmac blobs on and off the carriageway have got too high?

The Government had some obscure covid grant scheme to local governments (counties, unitary authorities??) for schemes they judged would effectively reduce traffic flow and improve distancing, cycle routes and whatever other criteria were specified. All councils drew up plans and then had their homework checked. Most councils seemed to use the plastic bollards to put their proposals in place.
Councils that were judged to have got it right were then give money and expected to implement their plans. Those that didn't get approval simply packed away the plastic bollards and got no money
In Derbyshire an example was in Ashbourne where roads were made one way and footpaths widened to take over roadside parking. Derbyshire got the government approval so now the plastic bollards will become permanent changes. Of course there were many other examples across the county beside Ashbourne.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Was it busy regardless of the police presence? Were they bullying or asking politely? It is, after all, the law and the police exist to prevent crime.

You don’t think using armed police to enforce a law mandating bits of cloth over the face is not a ridiculous overreaction? Especially when anyone confronted can just state ‘I’m exempt’ and - legally - not be required to provide proof (as written in said law)?

 

[bramling]

I had the same experience over the bank holiday weekend. My sister and her kids came to visit, and I booked a day out at a local attraction. An arrival time had to be selected, with the dame dire warnings not to be late. We selected 11am thinking that it was not too early, but would give us time to see everything before they closed at 5pm.

We arrived, and found that lots of other people had also chosen 11am. The slots were hourly, so people were certainly not staggered and there was a crowd/queue in the car park before they opened the gate for 11am arrivals. Then, because they also had a one way system, everyone was moving round together in a big crowd and it took quite a while before people had dispersed.

I think their two measures (forced arrival times and one way system) actually meant that there was less distance between families/group than there would normally be. It's not the most over the top restriction I've seen, but it's a badly thought through one. I do sympathise with the management though - they are a new business and I think government/official guidelines are the cause of the problem, not the local management.

The only positive thing was their gift shop is closed (due to Covid!), so we didn't get pressured into spending a fortune on overpriced plastic tat by the kids on the way out, as usually happens.

Glad to have read this, as it gives a possible foretaste of what tomorrow will bring!

Anyway we’re in the hotel now, so far so good apart from an utterly bizarre zig-zag system round the reception area, which needless to say we had to walk round even though we were the only people there!

Successfully completed the two disused railway tunnels - no social distancing / booking / masks required there!

 

[MikeWM]

You don’t think using armed police to enforce a law mandating bits of cloth over the face is not a ridiculous overreaction?

I think having armed police at a shopping center is a ridiculous idea to begin with - having them try to enforce mask rules (presumably because there wasn't anyone for them to shoot!) just verges on the surreal. 2020, eh?

I'm getting quite a long list of reasons now to avoid shopping centers. Wasn't expecting armed police though...

 

[Skimpot flyer]

I think having armed police at a shopping center is a ridiculous idea to begin with - having them try to enforce mask rules (presumably because there wasn't anyone for them to shoot!) just verges on the surreal. 2020, eh?

Yes, I don’t know how the police can achieve compliance on face-coverings.
I guess there’s no silver bulllet they could use

 

[Bantamzen]

I think having armed police at a shopping center is a ridiculous idea to begin with - having them try to enforce mask rules (presumably because there wasn't anyone for them to shoot!) just verges on the surreal. 2020, eh?

I'm getting quite a long list of reasons now to avoid shopping centers. Wasn't expecting armed police though...

Having armed police enforcing mask wearing in this country is not only over the top, it verges on authoritarian. What next, tazer someone if they refuse, point the gun at them? This is truly a worrying development.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

You don’t think using armed police to enforce a law mandating bits of cloth over the face is not a ridiculous overreaction? Especially when anyone confronted can just state ‘I’m exempt’ and - legally - not be required to provide proof (as written in said law)?

I see armed police all the time, particularly around potential terrorist spots such as transport hubs and er, major shopping centres. I don't expect them to leave their weapons in the car, then run to fetch them when something kicks off, sort of defeats the point in having them. In other countries, armed police are the norm.

Were people having guns pointed at them and the officer saying 'wear your masks or else'? I suspect not.

 

[MikeWM]

I see armed police all the time, particularly around potential terrorist spots such as transport hubs and er, major shopping centres.

I don't believe I've ever seen armed police in a shopping centre, and I've been in a lot of them over the past few years all around the country. I'd be leaving the shopping centre as quickly as possible if I did see them, as it implies to me that something is badly wrong. It's the same principle as avoiding pubs that have bouncers on the door.

Sadly, I have seen their presence grow over the last few years at major railway stations (and airports).

In other countries, armed police are the norm.

Why are we now welcoming all the things that we used to be proud to say differentiated us from other countries?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I don't believe I've ever seen armed police in a shopping centre, and I've been in a lot of them over the past few years all around the country. I'd be leaving the shopping centre as quickly as possible if I did see them, as it implies to me that something is badly wrong. It's the same principle as avoiding pubs that have bouncers on the door.

Sadly, I have seen their presence grow over the last few years at major railway stations (and airports).



Why are we now welcoming all the things that we used to be proud to say differentiated us from other countries?

I assume you avoid all the major London rail terminii then, and airports, as the presence of armed police 'implies something is badly wrong'.

I didn't say I welcomed their presence, but it is a fact of life.

 

[takno]

I see armed police all the time, particularly around potential terrorist spots such as transport hubs and er, major shopping centres. I don't expect them to leave their weapons in the car, then run to fetch them when something kicks off, sort of defeats the point in having them. In other countries, armed police are the norm.

Were people having guns pointed at them and the officer saying 'wear your masks or else'? I suspect not.

Not having armed police all over the place is one of the few ways in which this country is definitively better than most of abroad. Whilst police with prominent guns have sadly become more common in this country, they are still mostly confined to airports or specific potential targets, which for most of the country doesn't include shopping centres.

If they are going to be around somewhere, then tbh I'd very strongly rather they restricted themselves to looking out for the threats that are leading them to carry guns, rather than starting conversations about anything else with the public. Masks are a sensitive area, and a significant proportion of people not wearing masks are likely to have anxiety-based exemptions. Being questioned on these by somebody carrying a gun will not help

 

[Ianno87]

Armed police were present in Manchester City Centre's shopping areas for a few weeks after the 2017 Arena bombing

It's not unheard of.

 

[py_megapixel]

It seems that for some of the "Maximum X customers in shop at one time" signs, X is decided by the roll of a dice.

Example: In one street local to me there is a very small Debra shop, and a large Oxfam shop. The Oxfam shop is maximum 2 customers, and the Debra shop is maximum 6 customers??

 

[MikeWM]

I assume you avoid all the major London rail terminii then, and airports, as the presence of armed police 'implies something is badly wrong'.

Unfortunately I can't, but I don't like it one bit. Their presence doesn't reassure me at all, quite the opposite.

I didn't say I welcomed their presence, but it is a fact of life.

Is it? Someone is accountable and responsible for whether they are there or not; why can't we influence that? This is supposed to be a free country, after all (though I increasingly have my doubts).