the most over the top restrictions introduced

[Bletchleyite]

Due to some local restrictions being introduced later today in Wales, people from Wales will be unable to climb Snowdon but people from the rest of the world will. The First Minister of Wales requested Bozzo to impose some restrictions, especially with the high incidence of cases in the not so far away North West of England primarily in mind, but was met with a refusal.

They still have laws in place allowing them to close particular footpaths or open public land which they used to close the mountains to tourists last time - they can use those again if they want.

Much of the Snowdonia range is in Conwy so is now inaccessible anyway. With all the students in Bangor I can't imagine Gwynedd will be far away from restrictions.

 

[Howardh]

Finally Bolton - with it's current lockdown of bars and restaurants closed - can return to abnormal and join the likes of Manchester, bars open until 10 etc. Why it's taken over a week i don't know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Finally Bolton - with it's current lockdown of bars and restaurants closed - can return to abnormal and join the likes of Manchester, bars open until 10 etc. Why it's taken over a week i don't know.

It strikes me these local lockdown areas are being forgotten. Bet they wouldn't if it was Westminster.

They really should publish the criteria for releasing them.

 

[Bantamzen]

Indeed. This big picture is getting utterly lost.

I'm a very positive person, and I've been getting through this year knowing it will be over soon. But last week's announcement has hit that for six, and I'm feeling really drained about it all now. I know a couple of people who got COVID, but they are absolutely fine, and only had 1-2 miserable days (but we all have with various bugs in the past). But I know many more people who have lost jobs (three this week alone), others are really suffering with mental health and loneliness, and yet another person (a former colleague) who was recently diagnosed with terminal cancer in her 40s, despite suffering symptoms all year but only getting checked properly in late summer due to delays getting appointments. It would probably have been treatable had she been seen earlier in the year.

I'm really lucky in that I have my health, a stable job that I can work from home with, and I live with my other half, so I don't want to complain too much. My issues are very 'First World Problems' - just little things like now having secret chats with certain groups of only 6 people so we can meet up without offending others we would normally be with, or not just being able to eat out spontaneously, or constantly having travel plans cancelled this year, or even worrying I can't see my parents in Scotland this Christmas (normally I will be booking it by now). And seeing so many people I care about in not a great place, all because of something that I just can't justify in my mind makes all this necessary. It is really really draining. It was justified in April when we didn't know what we were dealing with, but surely the statistics show now that this infringement on our daily lives is really not necessary?

Likewise, my issues would generally be considered first world issues. But as a species we strive to better ourselves, to make life more bearable, to best use the limited time we have on this rock. So I get annoyed when people just say "suck it up" or that we should reduce our expectations & enjoyment because someone, somewhere else can't do what we do, or worse still because of someone else's fear of being blamed for the virus. We should be striving for a world where everyone can enjoy a first world lifestyle, not actively making it worse. All these limitation, restrictions & guilt being loaded on to us are going to have a terrible effect for decades to come I fear.

 

[Richard Scott]

You not only "live with the risk" (to yourself and to others), but you also risk getting cautioned, fined etc., if you break the current laws on movements. The only bit that I care about is the risk to others, which could 'wreck their lives'.

That's not what I was saying, my point was if you want to live with restrictions be my guest, the rest of us would be more than happy with a relaxation if these and take the risk with the virus.

No, the restrictions aren't "wrecking" the lives of the majority.

Oh sorry, wasn't aware you'd asked me if my life was being wrecked or not, have you asked everyone else too? I think you find eventually the majority of lives will be wrecked with a struggling economy, mass unemployment, worse public services and standard of living.

 

[Howardh]

It strikes me these local lockdown areas are being forgotten. Bet they wouldn't if it was Westminster.

They really should publish the criteria for releasing them.

The criteria was the local Tory MP's getting letters asking them to fix this or resign from the tories "people or party first?". If hospitality closed down permanently and jobs lost, it would be on their shoulders, and they are the ones in governemnt. So they fixed it. If Bolton had three Labour MP's things might have got worse.

 

[AM9]

That's not what I was saying, my point was if you want to live with restrictions be my guest, the rest of us would be more than happy with a relaxation if these and take the risk with the virus.


Oh sorry, wasn't aware you'd asked me if my life was being wrecked or not, have you asked everyone else too? I think you find eventually the majority of lives will be wrecked with a struggling economy, mass unemployment, worse public services and standard of living.

Apart from those closest to you what evidence do you have that the majority are having their lives "wrecked"? Bear in mind that a majority means well over 33million people in the UK, not just a majority of those making a noise on social media.

 

[DustyBin]

Likewise, my issues would generally be considered first world issues. But as a species we strive to better ourselves, to make life more bearable, to best use the limited time we have on this rock. So I get annoyed when people just say "suck it up" or that we should reduce our expectations & enjoyment because someone, somewhere else can't do what we do, or worse still because of someone else's fear of being blamed for the virus. We should be striving for a world where everyone can enjoy a first world lifestyle, not actively making it worse. All these limitation, restrictions & guilt being loaded on to us are going to have a terrible effect for decades to come I fear.

Absolutely. Social mobility is about to go into reverse....

 

[DB]

We should be striving for a world where everyone can enjoy a first world lifestyle,

Except that's impossible, for many reasons - not least the vast increase in pollution and natural resources which would result. It's more a case of needing to meet somewhere in the middle for there to be any chance of not rendering the planet uninhabitable (by humans, at least), and even then the culture of consumption would need to decrease drastically.

 

[kristiang85]

Apart from those closest to you what evidence do you have that the majority are having their lives "wrecked"? Bear in mind that a majority means well over 33million people in the UK, not just a majority of those making a noise on social media.

The economic long-term consequences will be felt by everyone.

I read the other day that our national deficit is already below the point at which 10 years of austerity was introduced. I'm pretty sure over the next 10 years, the fallout from this year is going to affect pretty much everybody.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Regarding the hour exercise "limit" - clearly entirely unenforceable and utterly daft - did the government fail to realise that many people's preferred forms of exercise inherently take longer than that?

Not according to the wife, they don’t

 

[takno]

The economic long-term consequences will be felt by everyone.

I read the other day that our national deficit is already below the point at which 10 years of austerity was introduced. I'm pretty sure over the next 10 years, the fallout from this year is going to affect pretty much everybody.

The deficit is strictly irrelevant, since that's a one-off event. The increase in the national debt as a share of GDP is more relevant. In fact the national debt as a share of GDP was already higher after 10 years of austerity than it was before it, because austerity is a catastrophically stupid reaction to the situation we were in in 2010. We will find ourselves in a desperately difficult situation as a result of the Covid measures though, because the government has spent unprecedented amounts, GDP has fallen, and we have crushed entire sectors which we normally look to drive a recovery. Hopefully nobody will compound the error this time though with more austerity.

 

[adc82140]

Number of people I know personally who have been ill enough to go to hospital with Covid-- zero. Number of people I know (or knew) personally who have died of other things since March- four (two cancer, one heart disease, one who was just very old) Number of people I know who have lost their jobs and are now on the dole since March- eleven. One of them was today, a cousin of my wife who works in the leisure industry received her P45 as the company has folded.

Puts things into perspective. Yes, people have died with Covid as the main cause, and will continue to die, but many more people die of other things, and we don't have draconian rules to stop that. The most obvious being that smoking is still allowed, despite conclusive evidence that it causes many deaths and puts enormous strain on the health service. I am not advocating dropping all restrictions, but some common sense is needed.

 

[Bantamzen]

Except that's impossible, for many reasons - not least the vast increase in pollution and natural resources which would result. It's more a case of needing to meet somewhere in the middle for there to be any chance of not rendering the planet uninhabitable (by humans, at least), and even then the culture of consumption would need to decrease drastically.

It isn't impossible, we can still lead good lives, travel and enjoy ourselves. We just need to learn how better to gather, store & use energy and food. But that's for another thread.

 

[DB]

It isn't impossible, we can still lead good lives, travel and enjoy ourselves. We just need to learn how better to gather, store & use energy and food. But that's for another thread.

It is impossible at the current norms! For it to work would require vast changes in westernised lifestyles.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

Various toilets at Reading are still locked shut. Seems to be those that are attached to waiting rooms. When I eventually found one that worked, there was a sign stating one person at a time. Inside there was one urinal and one cubicle. Having wandered around for several minutes to find a toilet, do they really think that someone will wait outside if there is someone in the cubicle? Who dreams up this stuff? They must know that it will be ignored.

On the subject of waiting rooms, will they be reopened when cooler weather arrives or will people be expected to shiver on the platform?

Actually, some toilets in Reading station are open now. I know because last time I went there (Tuesday this week) I needed to go to the toilet, and the toilet was open.

 

[Bantamzen]

It is impossible at the current norms! For it to work would require vast changes in westernised lifestyles.

Sorry but I disagree, however this is way off topic. I would be happy to discuss it if you opened a thread on the 'Other' forum though.

 

[py_megapixel]

Not really an over-the-top restriction but still inkeeping with the spirit of this thread: today I witnessed the pump handle falling off a sanitiser dispenser due to overuse..

 

[Richard Scott]

Apart from those closest to you what evidence do you have that the majority are having their lives "wrecked"? Bear in mind that a majority means well over 33million people in the UK, not just a majority of those making a noise on social media.

The fact we have just spent £300 billion and counting. You'll find life changes drastically when government realises we have to pay for this at some point.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The fact we have just spent £300 billion and counting. You'll find life changes drastically when government realises we have to pay for this at some point.

Only if they take the bad choice of austerity to pay for it. Increased taxes, and a shift in views towards paying the going rate for quality public services, would not have that effect.

Mind you, it is the Tories.

 

[Richard Scott]

Only if they take the bad choice of austerity to pay for it. Increased taxes, and a shift in views towards paying the going rate for quality public services, would not have that effect.

Mind you, it is the Tories.

Doesn't matter who is in power, we still owe the money.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Doesn't matter who is in power, we still owe the money.

We do, but there are different ways to pay it.

 

[Richard Scott]

We do, but there are different ways to pay it.

Don't remember being offered different ways of paying off my credit card except those that cost more money. Don't recall either most recent Labour or Conservative party managing to reduce debt, seems to consistently grow whatever we do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Don't remember being offered different ways of paying off my credit card except those that cost more money. Don't recall either most recent Labour or Conservative party managing to reduce debt, seems to consistently grow whatever we do.

Nationally, it's a choice between raising taxes and spending less. We've already done austerity to the hilt, so I vote for raising taxes.

Preferably Income Tax and being honest about it rather than random "sly" taxation.

 

[telstarbox]

Not a restriction as such, but pubs and cafes where you have to order via an app/website. Twice it's failed for me (using a modern smartphone) so someone had to come over anyway and write down what I was after.

 

[takno]

Don't remember being offered different ways of paying off my credit card except those that cost more money. Don't recall either most recent Labour or Conservative party managing to reduce debt, seems to consistently grow whatever we do.

It's very important not to make the same mistake as George Osborne and think that the national debt works like your credit card. Essentially to deal with the nation debt you have three options:
- Austerity. This probably won't work - all the experience of the last 10 years is that it just strangles growth and leaves you even worse off
- Tax Rate Rises. This might work, as long as the people paying more tax currently have the money lying around. If you tax people who cut back on their spending as a result than you just strangle growth and that leaves you even worse off
- Grow out of it. This immediately makes things better by increasing tax take and reducing the amount spent on benefits through lower unemployment. In addition it makes the National Debt as a proportion of GDP fall, meaning investors will be more confident in your ability to avoid defaulting on your debts, and the debt can be financed at lower interest rates.

It's really a no-brainer to go for growth in all circumstances. The determination to plough on with HS2 and other infrastructure projects suggests that the current government get that at least on some level, although there are plenty of proto-Osbornes in the party desperate to run the whole economy as a small business and wreck it. Labour in general tend towards growth over austerity at all times, so hopefully they'd be taking the same approach.

The only real problem is that the sheer scale of damage to the economy and government finances means that the next few years are going to be extremely uncomfortable for a large proportion of the population whatever you do.

Not a restriction as such, but pubs and cafes where you have to order via an app/website. Twice it's failed for me (using a modern smartphone) so someone had to come over anyway and write down what I was after.

I've found that they can usually seem to dig a paper menu and notepad out from somewhere. You just need to give them a completely bewildered look when they start chuntering on about installing an app to order.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not a restriction as such, but pubs and cafes where you have to order via an app/website. Twice it's failed for me (using a modern smartphone) so someone had to come over anyway and write down what I was after.

Yeah, most of them are a right poorly designed faff.

Here's another one - my local Spoons requires both NHS Track and Trace scanning and their own contact tracing! What a pointless waste of time.

 

[AM9]

Yeah, most of them are a right poorly designed faff.

Here's another one - my local Spoons requires both NHS Track and Trace scanning and their own contact tracing! What a pointless waste of time.

From what I've seen of Tim Martin's exploits, I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a contact details harvesting exercise.

 

[DelayRepay]

Not a restriction as such, but pubs and cafes where you have to order via an app/website. Twice it's failed for me (using a modern smartphone) so someone had to come over anyway and write down what I was after.

I had lunch at a pub earlier this week. They have what they call an app but is really a website. They also have instructions on the table that, if you cannot access the website, you should place your order by phoning the pub's landline. I guess this achieves the same result as using the app, but seems a little OTT. Anyway, I ordered online but they'd run out of what I ordered, so someone still had to come to my table to ask what I wanted instead.

Here's another one - my local Spoons requires both NHS Track and Trace scanning and their own contact tracing! What a pointless waste of time.

I've seen that too (not Spoons, I don't go there now), and the waitress was insistent you had to do both.

But I will raise you spoons and give you a local Costa, who have both the NHS QR code and their own QR code (that they used before the NHS app launched) on display next to each other. Much confusion amongst people who are probably only just getting to grips with QR codes.

 

[MattA7]

I see they are now claiming that even a vaccine won’t be enough for things to return to normality