The Obesity Epidemic - Causes and solutions.

[C J Snarzell]

I used to smoke and quit a while back. The menthol Sterling's I used to buy were all discontinued in May, again to discourage young people from smoking but all I've seen since is people putting vaper oil into the filter of a standard cigarette.

CJ

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Any merit in removing the ready salted bit from crisps and putting a salt sachet in the bag as happened many years ago? That way there is at least a choice.

 

[DelW]

Any merit in removing the ready salted bit from crisps and putting a salt sachet in the bag as happened many years ago? That way there is at least a choice.

Those are still around, though they seem to have been rebranded - I remembered them as Smith's not Walker's.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/254926817

(Tesco listing for salt and shake crisps)

No idea how well they sell vs ready salted though.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Salt ain’t good for health but I am not sure if there is a link with obesity.

 

[Techniquest]

Salt ain’t good for health but I am not sure if there is a link with obesity.

Isn't too much salt bad in the fashion of making you thirstier than you actually are, and helps retain water?

Cutting down to just 6 grams of salt per day is actually really difficult to do. I spent quite some time, and a LOT of effort, to cut right back on my salt intake earlier this year. It is much harder to do than you'd think, the average slice of pre-packed bread comes in around 7% of your daily salt intake on its own.

I often have 3 slices of thick sliced wholemeal bread as the core part of my breakfast, so I'm already on 21% of my daily salt intake. Given my average awake-time on a work day is 18 hours, if not more, then that leaves me with not a lot of room to have anything salty all day.

I'm terrible for adding salt to the veg I cook too, I don't measure it properly. I just go by the 'that'll do' eyeball measuring system. On the plus side, I don't add salt when cooking pasta, so I guess I'm not doing all that badly.

As for Salt & Shake crisps, they don't sell hugely well in my shop. Not helped by unpredictable availability and being on a high shelf.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Totally correct as far as diabetes is concerned. As far as obesity goes, complex carbs are almost as harmful as simple.

As far as obesity goes, any calories are basically the same, though simple carbs tend to cause insulin crashes which means you might end up eating more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Those are still around, though they seem to have been rebranded - I remembered them as Smith's not Walker's.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/254926817

(Tesco listing for salt and shake crisps)

No idea how well they sell vs ready salted though.

They were Smith's originally, but when Frito-Lay bought them out everything got rebranded Walkers, they then brought the Smiths brand back again and seem to have dropped it again.

 

[Techniquest]

Complex carbs are supposed to basically digest slower aren't they, thus keeping one 'full' for longer? Slow release energy or whatever it's called.

Porridge, wholemeal bread and wholewheat pasta are three examples of such food, but I could be wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Complex carbs are supposed to basically digest slower aren't they, thus keeping one 'full' for longer? Slow release energy or whatever it's called.

Porridge, wholemeal bread and wholewheat pasta are three examples of such food, but I could be wrong.

Yes, that's correct. In terms of the "calories in vs calories out" equation if you eat 1000 calories of porridge or 1000 calories of chocolate the effect on your waistline would be the same, but in reality if you eat the chocolate you'll carb-crash about an hour afterwards and want to eat more, whereas 1000 calories of porridge (that'd be a lot of it!) would probably keep you going most of the day.

It's this sort of thing that is a "modifier" of calories in vs out.

 

[Techniquest]

Oh good, I haven't got it all wrong then!

Agreed on the chocolate thing, the crash from it is not fun. Better than the come-down after a can of Rockstar wears off, but that is a whole different thing.

I keep trying to cut down my sugar, but that is exceptionally difficult to do. I need glucose from the sugar to keep the body going, especially as I'm a generally very active guy. Sitting around bores me too much, and that's usually when I get really bad sugar cravings because I'm bored!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agreed on the chocolate thing, the crash from it is not fun. Better than the come-down after a can of Rockstar wears off, but that is a whole different thing.

Probably very similar to one of the more calorific Starbucks drinks - it's a sugar and caffeine comedown. Personally I dislike energy drinks anyway, they taste horrid and I just don't see the point. From considerable experience of endurance events (e.g. long distance walking and running) I find tea (with sugar, though I normally have it without) is the best thing for keeping me going!

I keep trying to cut down my sugar, but that is exceptionally difficult to do. I need glucose from the sugar to keep the body going, especially as I'm a generally very active guy. Sitting around bores me too much, and that's usually when I get really bad sugar cravings because I'm bored!

I find I comfort eat if I'm not active, but I think that's more of a mental trigger than a physical one.

 

[Techniquest]

Energy drinks are certainly one of those things you either like or you don't. Rockstar Xdurance has 200mg of caffeine per 500mg can, and both times I've had one since the caffeine level was increased I've certainly been extremely energised by them! It delivers a massive kick of caffeine quickly, and once it's had time to digest, by cripes it turns me into the Energizer Bunny

As for the mental triggers with comfort food, I do have to agree. Of course, to a certain extent, it will be a physical thing since the body still needs sugars and fats as part of a daily intake. That does quickly become a mental trigger though, junk food is good at triggering positive feelings in the brain after all.

When I'm having what I call a 'woe is me, I don't feel well' kind of day, be it from an injury, a super exhausting day or whatever, comfort food is certainly desirable. When I had two seperate weeks off from work a while ago, with injured legs, I was naturally not doing an awful lot of exercise. An absolute ton of sitting/lieing around watching TV/YouTube and a megaton of junk food to cheer myself up. I had no real physical need for such an intake, but the boredom factor kicked in, and I would feel better mentally for devouring an entire bag of popcorn while binge-watching Scrubs, or an entire pack of 5 jam doughnuts while watching a driver's eye view video on Youtube.

Thankfully though, the whole experience gave me time to actually take on a better view with food intake, a whole new outlook on having rest days from exercising and so much more. Not that that lesson stayed with me forever, I recently caused part of my injury to flare up again after going way overboard with quads strengthening exercises and hill climbing training on the bike...

This time, however, I am confident that I've spent enough time creating new neurological links. A few more days of rest and modified exercise routines and I'll be back out there riding again Just I will actually listen to the need for a rest day this time! I've even modified my hill climbing training technique as I've typed this, so it goes to show what one can do with the right mindset.

Which leads me back to this thread's main topic. Getting fitter is all about the right mindset. If one wants to achieve a goal, getting into the right way of thinking has to be done first. We all have different ways of doing that though, and I can assure you my method would not work for the average person.

I've got to actually get ready for work, I've got a bit carried away with this reply!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Salt ain’t good for health but I am not sure if there is a link with obesity.

I'm pretty sure there isn't. Too much salt can lead to high blood pressure and therefore all the associated medical problems that are caused by high blood pressure (such as increased risk of a heart attack), but as far as I'm aware too much salt doesn't make you obese.

 

[najaB]

Too much salt can lead to high blood pressure...

While this statement is true at the extreme end, the conventional wisdom that lowering sodium intake increases health is one of those facts that has been brought into question of late, and the relationship isn't clear-cut.

For example, this article (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317099#A-new-look-at-sodium-and-blood-pressure) summarises a study that shows that very low sodium diets can be as harmful as very high sodium diets.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For example, this article (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/317099#A-new-look-at-sodium-and-blood-pressure) summarises a study that shows that very low sodium diets can be as harmful as very high sodium diets.

This is as probably as close to a universal truth in any form of nutrition. OK, there are things that are by definition bad (e.g. highly refined sugars and high-fructose corn syrup), but only a small number of them (and even those won't hurt you occasionally). Other than that, "everything in moderation in a balanced diet" is a very good guideline. Entirely cutting out something is only sensible if you're actually allergic to it.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

This is as probably as close to a universal truth in any form of nutrition. OK, there are things that are by definition bad (e.g. highly refined sugars and high-fructose corn syrup), but only a small number of them (and even those won't hurt you occasionally). Other than that, "everything in moderation in a balanced diet" is a very good guideline. Entirely cutting out something is only sensible if you're actually allergic to it.

Yes that seems an eminently sensible approach.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

The "everything in moderation" has always been my philosophy. Needless to say, sometimes I have had a bit too much of one thing or another - but who hasn't?

Sodium and potassium in balanced proportion is required for normal heart and neurological function. However, too much sodium means the body holds on to water which increases blood volume and thus, more fluid to pump around the body (hence the increased pressure needed).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A former boss of mine once said “ everything in moderation including moderation” . In other words now and again it is OK to splurge

 

[Bletchleyite]

A former boss of mine once said “ everything in moderation including moderation” . In other words now and again it is OK to splurge

Also true.

 

[Richardr]

The other position with salt is that it encourages over-consumption as far as I am concerned.

An easy example is a packet of nuts. Salted, and the packet lasts a fraction of the time an unsalted packet lasts. More than a handful of nuts is rarely needed.

 

[najaB]

This video from the BBC today is apropos: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...igners-it-s-not-just-about-eat-less-move-more

Body positivity campaigners: 'It’s not just about eat less, move more’
A new government strategy to tackle obesity is urging the country to lose weight to help beat coronavirus.
But body positivity vloggers Callie Thorpe, from Waltham Forest, and Lauren Talulah Smeets, from Hillingdon, think the strategy fails to acknowledge the part mental health can play in people’s eating habits.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The other position with salt is that it encourages over-consumption as far as I am concerned.

Agreed. In US Bars it is quite common to put out some "free" salty snacks. People eat them making them thirsty and order more booze which is the way they make their money. In the US they tend to order the full dinner as well as the salty snacks.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This video from the BBC today is apropos: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-en...igners-it-s-not-just-about-eat-less-move-more

The mental health aspect is an awkward one, and I'm not convinced "body positive" campaigners have it right. The point to be put across is to me (and including me, as I'm a bit fat) is that "you are a good person in a body that you need to sort out", or somesuch. Accepting people who are obese "for who they are" doesn't strike me as sensible.

The difficulty is it corrupts to "you're fat so you're a bad person" but that's not the same.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The mental health aspect is an awkward one, and I'm not convinced "body positive" campaigners have it right. The point to be put across is to me (and including me, as I'm a bit fat) is that "you are a good person in a body that you need to sort out", or somesuch. Accepting people who are obese "for who they are" doesn't strike me as sensible.

The difficulty is it corrupts to "you're fat so you're a bad person" but that's not the same.

I agree. I watched the video, and I have some sympathy for the two vloggers on it to the extent that they say they've tried losing weight and apparently not been able to do so. And maybe they do have a point about more mental health support being necessary. But at the same time, some of the video felt like they were both trying to make excuses for their weight and also misinterpreting a level of blame that simply isn't there in the Government's message. 'Eat less, move more' is exactly the correct message that people need to understand, and reminding people that that is what they need to do is not remotely the same thing as saying 'if you're overweight then we're going to persecute you and stand in perpetual judgement over you' - but the two vloggers on that video seem to be unable to understand the difference. A shame that the BBC simply presented their opinions without any question or putting across any differing views - that's definitely not a good example of balanced reporting.

 

[Techniquest]

I haven't watched the video, but I may do later. I do not, however, buy the concept that an obsese person cannot lose weight. It is perfectly possible, it is however necessary to find what works for that person. 'Eat less, move more' may not be the ideal methodology for that person, but only they can find what works for them. We can all give them ideas and advice, not to mention encouragement, but it may be that that person needs a variety of methods.

I've said it many times, whenever people ask me how I lost my excess mass, and it is worth repeating briefly here. There are certain things I found critical to achieving the mission:

Determination
Self-motivation
A clear goal of what is the ideal weight
Self-drive (not quite the same as self-motivation, the drive is to get started towards the goal, the motivation is to keep going once on that road)
A calorie-reduced diet, but otherwise sticking to the RDA for fats, carbs etc.
A strong support network from close friends
Patience
A BIG increase in cardio exercise
Cutting out dairy and fizzy drinks.

Otherwise, without all of the above, I'd have never managed it. What worked for me, and is strongly advised against, is a load of self-loathing. That does and will affect the mental state while working on the mission, but I found it useful. Things like "come on you fat fu***r, get the ***k on with it!" made it easier somehow to achieve the goal.

It is NOT for everyone though, you've got to be mentally strong to deal with it all. However, it worked and despite having put a fair bit back on (probably about a stone and a half), I have restored most of my muscular strength again so apart from the gut I'm now happy with what I have. And yes, I am working on the gut slowly!

 

[GRALISTAIR]

--------- whenever people ask me how I lost my excess mass, it is - ---- briefly here.

Determination
Self-motivation
A clear goal of what is the ideal weight
Self-drive (not quite the same as self-motivation, the drive is to get started towards the goal, the motivation is to keep going once on that road)
A calorie-reduced diet, but otherwise sticking to the RDA for fats, carbs etc.
A strong support network from close friends
Patience
A BIG increase in cardio exercise
Cutting out dairy and fizzy drinks.

I agree with most of this - the bits in bold. Definitely cutting out fizzy drinks was the 1st step for me. I personally did not need the big increase in cardio exercise. Just very regular long walks minimum 10000 steps per day was enough for me but over 12 months. PATIENCE - absolutely. It can be disheartening when hitting a plateau when hard work and low eating but seeing zero weight loss. The first 10 pounds is easy - after that patience and do not give up. Dairy - yes reduced, but I still had butter on toast and some cheese but cream and milk on cereals was out. Eggs I do not count as dairy. No sweets, deserts or chocolate but ice cream about once per month. Reduced beer but the odd glass of red wine.

 

[Techniquest]

I agree with most of this - the bits in bold. Definitely cutting out fizzy drinks was the 1st step for me. I personally did not need the big increase in cardio exercise. Just very regular long walks minimum 10000 steps per day was enough for me but over 12 months. PATIENCE - absolutely. It can be disheartening when hitting a plateau when hard work and low eating but seeing zero weight loss. The first 10 pounds is easy - after that patience and do not give up. Dairy - yes reduced, but I still had butter on toast and some cheese but cream and milk on cereals was out. Eggs I do not count as dairy. No sweets, deserts or chocolate but ice cream about once per month. Reduced beer but the odd glass of red wine.

This goes to show it can be done, it just depends how much you want it.

I found it harder to do until I saw the progress in the mirror 5 and a bit months or so into the mission. Of all places, it clicked into place while stepping out of the bath in my Novotel room in Toronto, and catching sight of my vastly reduced gut. Once the penny dropped, my good golly gosh that was a big boost to the morale.

A big reason for my cutting loads out (I did still have some beers, although it was not many over the 7 months) was that I wanted a quick result. I didn't have years to do it, I wanted it done fast. A pound or two a week wasn't enough, I was wanting more like a stone's worth every month. My primary reason for going after a quick result is no longer valid, but let's not go there.

There is one thing I forgot to mention though, and that is I had one piece of extremely good advice from one of my colleagues. Even now I have to agree with her, it's not a diet it's a lifestyle change. That certainly clicked into place very quickly and it helped no end.

Before I head off to do something more healthy than staring at my screen, I must add this thread has been very useful in spurring me onto getting back to a healthier lifestyle. I do still splurge on junk food, of course, but I am working on breaking that neurological link with junk food. I feel like I'm getting closer to success again there

 

[najaB]

Even now I have to agree with her, it's not a diet it's a lifestyle change.

Which leads to the question of when did the word "diet" come to mean a time-limited thing?

 

[Techniquest]

Which leads to the question of when did the word "diet" come to mean a time-limited thing?

This is a good question. I would say any time from when Diet Coke was first introduced (1982 I think) for certain. I'd also throw into the ring whatever year it was the Atkins Diet became a thing.

However I'm also fairly sure it would have been long before that.

 

[Meerkat]

I am very lazy and very greedy, but fortunately I am also very tight so the ridiculous cost (value not absolute) of chocolates and puddings etc puts me off.
The only way I keep the weight off is by just not buying anything nice. At home I have no biscuits, no cakes, no crisps, little cheese because I know they won’t last a day. Now if I am hungry (be that for real or out of habit/boredom) I can have some toast or an apple (and often the lack of nice stuff put me off eating anything extra)
When I needed to lose weight I gave up bread. Pasta might not be much better in itself but it doesn’t get covered in butter, jam, mayo, meat, cheeses etc, and portion control is easier - harder to boil more up than get another few slices of bread out.
Physically true or not I also consciously ‘shrank’ my stomach. I aimed to go to bed slightly peckish, and over time reaching this point took less and less food.
Based on observation at work/friends there is little correlation between income and obesity, but a lot of correlation between obesity and the lazy (lifts not stairs, parking as close as possible, etc etc) and/or those who never took responsibility for anything (always someone else’s fault or conditions ‘made them’ do it wrong).
I am very cynical about the fight against ‘fat shaming’ - sure it’s dangerous for some at the margins but it’s also motivational (not talking about flat out bullying of strangers here).
I listen to female friends/colleagues giving it the ‘no you look great’ (to their face anyway) whereas the blokes together immediately mention any belly increases (‘when‘s it due?!’). Sometimes you need someone to point such things out, especially weight gain which is so incremental you might not notice it yourself until you have to go up a waist size.
Is it my imagination or is there a distinct weight loss difference between men and women? Lots of women I know seem to be permanently on a depressing diet which evidence would suggest they aren’t keeping to, but blokes seem to split between staying ‘yeah I’m fat, not bothered, not trying’ and dramatic, fast, weight loss, which they broadly maintain (I have a theory that high beer consumption gives blokes an easy way to drop thousands of calories......)