The rise of the extreme commuter

[ASharpe]

I have tried switching to a long commute when I am working at my other office and just can't do it.

Bradford to Middlesbrough takes me over 3 hours each way by bus, train and taxi. I don't mind doing it for one day but for multiple days I stay in the Travelodge.

And that is almost always after getting a train from Guildford to Leeds the evening before where I stay with family.

I occasionally think about doing it in one day from Guildford to Darlington and back with a taxi to Middlesbrough but I don't think I would be able to keep awake for the full day. I now only rarely travel straight back to Guildford from Middlesbrough after I am done there.

My normal commute is just a 15 minute bike ride or 30-40 minute bus journey each way and that's how I intend to keep it.

 

[DeeGee]

I'm so lucky. My commute is 17 minutes by bike, 35 minutes running, or an hour and 5 by bus.

I never get the bus. If I were to do it by train, I hate to think how long it would take.

 

[Genocide]

I used to deal on a professional basis with a guy who worked in a senior position for the former First Centrewest operation in West London and commuted there daily from Birmingham.

I think we vaguely recognised each other from days of old anyway although neither of us was going to broach the subject until a break during a particularly arduous meeting during which I asked how he found it.

He produced his mileage list (this would be 1997/98). He'd cleared all of his WCML 86/2's for 20k and had one - 204 off the top of my head - around the 35k mark!

 

[alastair]

Another thing that I find a tad irritating is when someone chooses to commute from (say) Southampton to Waterloo and then whinges at the price £4996 for an annual season when if you break that down (assuming use 5 days a week and have 5 weeks holiday) its £21.25 a day,which looks like quite a bargain to me. Bear in mind that an anytime day return is £75.30 and even a super off-peak is £35.60.

It is ironic that these people presumably regard themselves as good customers of the railway when it could be argued that they are anything but, as a fairly substantial part of the expenses of running the railway(infrastructure,rolling stock provision,staff wages etc) have to be increased to cope with the demand from commuters. Of course I am not talking about inner or outer suburban services here,more what we used to call inter-city routes.

It could be argued that long distance commuters are in fact not paying nearly enough for their travel. What do others think?

 

[user15681]

Mine is around 1 hour 30 minutes each way by train and tube. I don't mind so much, I always get a window seat on the train so I sleep for most of the journey. Alternatively, if I have work to do, I can do it on the train and actually do something productive with my time when I would have otherwise been in bed.

 

[Bishopstone]

It could be argued that long distance commuters are in fact not paying nearly enough for their travel. What do others think?

I agree with you to some extent. Long-distance rail commuting is a bargain, by most measures. Those who say otherwise are just looking at the absolute cost, rather than the relative - ie they are ignoring comparison with daily/weekly peak fares, and also ignoring motoring/parking costs for an equivalent journey.

On the flip side, your Southampton commuter is giving £5k to SWT up-front, but only 'consuming' their services gradually over 12 months. Every annual season ticket represents an interest-free loan to the rail industry, and businesses love cash in advance.

 

[PeterY]

I did for a year, Hemel Hempstead to Headstone Lane and to be honest when the system worked well, it worked well but when it screwed up, it screwed up. :roll:

Couldn't hack commuting now.:cry:

 

[al78]

I agree with you to some extent. Long-distance rail commuting is a bargain, by most measures. Those who say otherwise are just looking at the absolute cost, rather than the relative - ie they are ignoring comparison with daily/weekly peak fares, and also ignoring motoring/parking costs for an equivalent journey.

There are other factors to consider apart from purely monetary ones.

If those commuters didn't use the train, they would probably drive, which externalises pollution and congestion costs onto other people, thus encouraging people to commute by train (via subsidies if necessary) may actually improve overall qualilty of life by reducing these externalities.

There is nothing wrong with subsidies, if what is being subsidised is contributing to a better environment/general quality of life.

 

[Bishopstone]

There are other factors to consider apart from purely monetary ones.

If those commuters didn't use the train, they would probably drive, which externalises pollution and congestion costs onto other people, thus encouraging people to commute by train (via subsidies if necessary) may actually improve overall qualilty of life by reducing these externalities.

There is nothing wrong with subsidies, if what is being subsidised is contributing to a better environment/general quality of life.

Most people commuting from Brighton, Southampton, Cambridge, Oxford etc to London will be 40% or 45% taxpayers.

People who couldn't afford to make that commute themselves, because they are in work but not earning enough, are subsidising through their taxes rail travel for those who could afford it anyway, without subsidy or with less subsidy.

In aggregate, rail subsidies have always represented a transfer from poor to rich, because rich people tend to use the railway more often and for longer distances than poor people, and some of the very poorest (eg Welsh hill farming communities) don't have any access to rail services.

By contrast, bus subsidies would be of much greater benefit to the working poor.

 

[Moonshot]

It is worth noting that the latest ORR figures show that TOCs overall do not recieve a subsidy, but actually contibute over £500 million to government coffers.

 

[edwin_m]

I do not understand why these people don't get a cheap hotel room, at least some nights a week.

Part of the problem is that (as mentioned by someone else) the season ticket is significantly cheaper than five peak time return tickets per week, so spending a night or two in London each week saves little or nothing on the ticket and adds a cost for the hotel. Perhaps the idea of a discount for people to travel two or three days a week, as suggested by one of the politicians recently, would help here. As would jobs with the flexibility to work longer days when staying over and shorter ones when travelling.

Also as far as I can tell a hotel in central London that isn't either a total fleapit or too noisy to sleep costs well over £100 per night or £5000 per year for one night a week. You probably have to find somewhere further out and commute...

 

[RJ]

I consider the nature of my commutes to be irregular - I have interests in various places so I don't necessarily commute between the same places. Some of the commutes on my list are;

Loughborough to Fulwell (3 hours)
Canterbury to Fulwell (2 hours)
Canterbury to the office I work at (75 minutes)
My yard to Fulwell (75 minutes)
My yard to the ticket office I normally work at (60 minutes)
My yard to the office I work at (26 minutes)

Long distance commuting is o.k. for someone like me - I'm 22 and don't have children yet. I do it because I get a very high degree of personal satisfaction from the jobs I do. There would be times I'd be at uni and I'd get a call to say there was overtime going - so I'd pay East Midlands Trains their money and leave at 7pm to commute the bus garage. I'd then drive the N3 or the party bus for the drunk revellers at another uni to their local nightclub. I'd often leave work at 03:30, get to St Pancras at 05:20 then get the 05:45 to my yard, getting into bed at 8am. I only did it because I loved it, once a week was quite enough for that however.

I doubt I'd find it worthwhile to be so productive if the TOCs didn't leave all those loopholes in the fare system open. Especially where I used EMT's 05:45 from St Pancras, on which I'm yet to have paid for a public or YP rate Anytime ticket for the expensive bit as far as Bedford. I prefer to use Off Peak tickets for use at that time.

 

[Bald Rick]

It is worth noting that the latest ORR figures show that TOCs overall do not recieve a subsidy, but actually contibute over £500 million to government coffers.

But only because Government chooses to send several billion a year directly to Network Rail, rather than putting it via the TOCs who would then want a margin on it. If the full cost of infrastructure was paid by the TOCs, all but 3 would be in subsidy.

 

[Moonshot]

But only because Government chooses to send several billion a year directly to Network Rail, rather than putting it via the TOCs who would then want a margin on it. If the full cost of infrastructure was paid by the TOCs, all but 3 would be in subsidy.

Correct.....however it has had the effect of shining a light on Network Rail resources directly over the last few years.

 

[Wolfie]

I have it on very good authority that they use as their ticket supplier an organisation which is routinely slammed on here for being more expensive that their adverts would lead you to think...

So, unfortunately, does the Civil Service.....

 

[Tetchytyke]

Many big companies use TheSheepLine because their business website is actually very good. Companies want to save on paperwork and petty cash advances, they want it all centralised, and TheSheepLine provide it for them (at a cost).

I was a trustee of a charity for a few years and we used TheSheepLine for many bookings, because they saved our Treasurer hours in accounting.

TOC websites are useless for business customers.

As for an extreme commute, most people in London have one. I live six miles from work and it's the thick end of an hour on the bus. I'll be moving further out fairly soon because of the cost of living in the centre; if I'm going to be paying north of a grand a month in rent, I'd rather have a garden and a parking space.

 

[All Line Rover]

Also as far as I can tell a hotel in central London that isn't either a total fleapit or too noisy to sleep costs well over £100 per night or £5000 per year for one night a week. You probably have to find somewhere further out and commute...

Not true. Premier Inn have many new and superbly clean hotels in central London from £69/night, central-ish London (Stratford International, Ealing Broadway) from £49/night and greater London (Croydon) from £29/night. There are no unnecessary perks such as a gym or pool but do they provide clean and comfortable rooms in good locations which, according to the reviews on TripAdvisor, is all that most people want.

Travelodge, on the other hand, would undoubtedly be closer to your description...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Part of the problem is that (as mentioned by someone else) the season ticket is significantly cheaper than five peak time return tickets per week, so spending a night or two in London each week saves little or nothing on the ticket and adds a cost for the hotel. Perhaps the idea of a discount for people to travel two or three days a week, as suggested by one of the politicians recently, would help here. As would jobs with the flexibility to work longer days when staying over and shorter ones when travelling.

I find the pricing for Crewe to Milton Keynes amusing. £158 for an Anytime Return. If you fancy a 7-day season, that'll be an extra 80p, at £158.80! This is not conductive to a part-time commute.

The reason for this anomaly is the regulatory pricing controls on the season ticket. If such pricing controls did not exist, the price would likely be significantly higher. And, whilst few would argue that those living in the London commuter belt or the Cardiff Valleys require regulatory protection on the price of their season tickets, do those commuting 200+ miles a day on intercity routes really need such protection?

EDIT: Even more amusing is that, after the fare increases on January 2nd, an Anytime Return, at £164, will cost more than a 7-day season, at £163.70!

 

[Moonshot]

Not true. Premier Inn have many new and superbly clean hotels in central London from £69/night, central-ish London (Stratford International, Ealing Broadway) from £49/night and greater London (Croydon) from £29/night. There are no unnecessary perks such as a gym or pool but do they provide clean and comfortable rooms in good locations which, according to the reviews on TripAdvisor, is all that most people want.

Travelodge, on the other hand, would undoubtedly be closer to your description...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I find the pricing for Crewe to Milton Keynes amusing. £158 for an Anytime Return. If you fancy a 7-day season, that'll be an extra 80p, at £158.80! This is not conductive to a part-time commute.

The reason for this anomaly is the regularly pricing controls on the season ticket. If such pricing controls did not exist, the price would likely be significantly higher. And, whilst few would argue that those living in the London commuter belt or the Cardiff Valleys require regulatory protection on the price of their season tickets, do those commuting 200+ miles a day on intercity routes really need such protection?

EDIT: Even more amusing is that, after the fare increases on January 2nd, an Anytime Return, at £164, will cost more than a 7-day season, at £163.70!

I ve been banging on about this for a while now......i would actually go the whole hog and remove regulated fares completely.

 

[westv]

Part of the problem is that (as mentioned by someone else) the season ticket is significantly cheaper than five peak time return tickets per week, so spending a night or two in London each week saves little or nothing on the ticket and adds a cost for the hotel. Perhaps the idea of a discount for people to travel two or three days a week, as suggested by one of the politicians recently, would help here. As would jobs with the flexibility to work longer days when staying over and shorter ones when travelling.

Also as far as I can tell a hotel in central London that isn't either a total fleapit or too noisy to sleep costs well over £100 per night or £5000 per year for one night a week. You probably have to find somewhere further out and commute...

Not true. Premier Inn have many new and superbly clean hotels in central London from £69/night, central-ish London (Stratford International, Ealing Broadway) from £49/night and greater London (Croydon) from £29/night. There are no unnecessary perks such as a gym or pool but do they provide clean and comfortable rooms in good locations which, according to the reviews on TripAdvisor, is all that most people want.

Travelodge, on the other hand, would undoubtedly be closer to your description...

The problem with places like Ealing or Croydon is that you'd also need to add on the cost of getting from there into central London - assuming the person worked there. Personally I have got myself a flat share for Monday to Thursday which I think works out at about £45 a night for me.
As regards tickets, I always go for AP tickets and the cost is currently roughly £200 a month for Hull to London.

 

[edwin_m]

Not true. Premier Inn have many new and superbly clean hotels in central London from £69/night, central-ish London (Stratford International, Ealing Broadway) from £49/night and greater London (Croydon) from £29/night. There are no unnecessary perks such as a gym or pool but do they provide clean and comfortable rooms in good locations which, according to the reviews on TripAdvisor, is all that most people want.

Travelodge, on the other hand, would undoubtedly be closer to your description...

Thanks for that. I will drop some hints to the people who book our hotels next time I need one. The Travelodge they found me last time was exactly what I was thinking of when making that post...

My last Central London Premier Inn (at Blackfriars) was as you say all I needed but cost well over £100. This was however only booked a day or so before.

 

[cjp]

I consider the nature of my commutes to be irregular

-Rovin' RJ's blog: Coming soon
.

Soon??

What time scale?

Leaves on the line delaying things?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

He produced his mileage list (this would be 1997/98). He'd cleared all of his WCML 86/2's for 20k and had one - 204 off the top of my head - around the 35k mark!

OMG - I thought my 2600 miles behind 87004 was good. I am an amatuer.

 

[All Line Rover]

The problem with places like Ealing or Croydon is that you'd also need to add on the cost of getting from there into central London - assuming the person worked there. Personally I have got myself a flat share for Monday to Thursday which I think works out at about £45 a night for me.
As regards tickets, I always go for AP tickets and the cost is currently roughly £200 a month for Hull to London.

The cost of travel from somewhere like Ealing (Broadway), at £3.20 (e.g. Ealing Broadway to Liverpool Street direct on the Central line), is little more than the equivalent journey from a London terminal, at £2.10.

Croydon is more expensive, I agree.

For certain journeys, such as yours and, as it happens, Crewe to Milton Keynes, booking Advance tickets is certainly productive and can work out considerably cheaper than the cost of a season ticket. Though given such Advance tickets are subject to market forces, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to base a house move around such a commute!

 

[PermitToTravel]

I did for a year, Hemel Hempstead to Headstone Lane and to be honest when the system worked well, it worked well but when it screwed up, it screwed up. :roll:

Couldn't hack commuting now.:cry:

Extreme? That's a half-hour journey

 

[All Line Rover]

My last Central London Premier Inn (at Blackfriars) was as you say all I needed but cost well over £100. This was however only booked a day or so before.

Blackfriars is always expensive because it is near the City and is one of their nicest hotels. Leicester Square is consistently the most expensive of all, followed by Waterloo and County Hall, because of the prime locations. Unless you are a tourist I don't believe such locations are essential.

Cheaper hotels, located close to tube/rail stations which are reasonably close to central London, include Ealing, Hanger Lane, Wembley, Hammersmith, Earl's Court and Harrow (not one of the best as it is older and there can be a lot of noise from the WMCL, but the proximity to the Bakerloo line is good).

 

[GodAtum]

I live in south london but unfortunately my company can send me anywhere. i refused to take an assignment so they put me up in a hotel during the week which was nice.

Atm my commute is around 2.5 hours: bus, train, train, bus. always sleep in the office which my boss has picked up.

The problem i find is in london its expensive to live and travel. Even though you only live 20 mins way from the office you can pay over £1000 a year.

 

[CalderRail]

I live in south london but unfortunately my company can send me anywhere. i refused to take an assignment so they put me up in a hotel during the week which was nice.

Atm my commute is around 2.5 hours: bus, train, train, bus. always sleep in the office which my boss has picked up.

The problem i find is in london its expensive to live and travel. Even though you only live 20 mins way from the office you can pay over £1000 a year.

It costs £1032 a year (WY Metrocard) for me to do a 24 minute commute in Yorkshire.

 

[Stats]

So, unfortunately, does the Civil Service.....

The civil service does not use that company. Redfern Travel is central government's contracted domestic travel supplier.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The problem i find is in london its expensive to live and travel. Even though you only live 20 mins way from the office you can pay over £1000 a year.

London is expensive to live but extremely cheap to travel by public transport in comparison to non-metropolitan areas.

 

[HSTEd]

It is worth noting that the latest ORR figures show that TOCs overall do not recieve a subsidy, but actually contibute over £500 million to government coffers.

Uh... yeah

This is because Network Rail is not the State.
Look at the Figures again including the 'Network Grant'.

The net subsidy is still huge.

 

[Moonshot]

Uh... yeah

This is because Network Rail is not the State.
Look at the ORR Figures again including the 'Network Grant'.

The net subsidy is still huge.

yes I know Ted......