The rise of the extreme commuter

[HSTEd]

And as to Extreme Commuting... I don't see any reason why its bad for people to do it if they chose to.
It is worth nothing that should decarbonisation fo the electricity supply proceed according to Government targets the journey from Manchester to London on HS2 will end up coming out comparable in carbon emissions to about 15-20km in a car.

 

[Bald Rick]

And as to Extreme Commuting... I don't see any reason why its bad for people to do it if they chose to.
It is worth nothing that should decarbonisation fo the electricity supply proceed according to Government targets the journey from Manchester to London on HS2 will end up coming out comparable in carbon emissions to about 15-20km in a car.

Unless it's an electric car...

 

[HSTEd]

Unless it's an electric car...

Well Electric Cars are a long way away from being a mass fleet vehicle.
Current sales rates will lead to them equilibriating at a few percent of the fleet at best.
And Electric Cars might be advancing but so are Petrol and Diesel ones (especially the latter).

 

[Goatboy]

What would the cost of regular tickets look like if season tickets for bonkers-long journeys were not very very cheaply priced on a per-day basis I wonder?

£158 for 7 days unlimited travel between Milton Keynes and London... bargain.

 

[LTJ87]

I've done a long commute nearly that was nearly two hours door to door each way for five days a week most weeks.

When it's part of your daily routine, you get used to it but I was so relieved when I stopped and my life returned to normality.

Getting up early in winter and walking to the station in the dark when the temperature is freezing is miserable. Not being able to enjoy warm summer evenings to the full is miserable.

As well as the tiredness which ultimately eats into your weekend as you recover from a week of commuting, the cumulative loss of time in your evenings adds up.

What was probably worst of all was having your schedule dictated by the rail timetable. Having to always get up at a certain time in the morning and having to watch the clock at work rather than leaving the office when you felt your work was done for the day was the most frustrating aspect.

In hindsight I wished I had asked for 1 day working a week from home (it was only when I started in the position that I had a stronger negotiating position than I thought). Staying in a hotel 1-2 nights a week is an option - if you build a contact with a particular property manager you should be able to negotiate a rate for guaranteeing a certain number of nights a year.

 

[Moonshot]

I've done a long commute nearly that was nearly two hours door to door each way for five days a week most weeks.

When it's part of your daily routine, you get used to it but I was so relieved when I stopped and my life returned to normality.

Getting up early in winter and walking to the station in the dark when the temperature is freezing is miserable. Not being able to enjoy warm summer evenings to the full is miserable.

As well as the tiredness which ultimately eats into your weekend as you recover from a week of commuting, the cumulative loss of time in your evenings adds up.

What was probably worst of all was having your schedule dictated by the rail timetable. Having to always get up at a certain time in the morning and having to watch the clock at work rather than leaving the office when you felt your work was done for the day was the most frustrating aspect.

I m actually of the opinion that more and more people are realising the points made above.....commuting is dead time and adds nothing to quality of life. I can see a day coming up when growth in rail travel suddenly flatlines

 

[fowler9]

I m actually of the opinion that more and more people are realising the points made above.....commuting is dead time and adds nothing to quality of life. I can see a day coming up when growth in rail travel suddenly flatlines

I'd love to see more people commuting by rail, just over much shorter distances. I struggle to see what kind of quality of life someone commuting 90 minutes each way has, and I've done it. My last job was a 20 minute commute, ish. I walked around the corner to West Allerton. 10 to 15 minute train ride in to the city centre then a 5 minute walk to my office in a nice part of town. It was my dream job.

 

[island]

EDIT: Even more amusing is that, after the fare increases on January 2nd, an Anytime Return, at £164, will cost more than a 7-day season, at £163.70!

Does that mean impartial ticket clerks must offer the season ticket if asked for a return ticket when both journeys will be within 7 days and in peak?

 

[Be3G]

I used to commute for two hours each way to university, four days per week. The journey would go something like this:

• 2-minute walk
• Five-minute bus journey
• 25-minute train journey
• 3-minute tube journey
• 5-minute tube journey
• 35-minute train journey
• 5-minute bus journey

That doesn't total two hours of course because of the need to wait for buses etc. The chopping and changing was a bit annoying when tired at the end of a long day (awake at 5:30am for a 9am lecture…) but I quite enjoyed it too. The university was in a quiet slightly rural setting which people who lived there found utterly boring, but which for me made a nice daily change from the grime of my home location. It also meant I had the flexibility to, say, pop in to a big bookshop or library on the way home if I needed something. Furthermore, the commute wasn't dead time: on the two long-ish train journeys I was able to do work on my laptop, look through printouts for exam revision, or just sit and enjoy the view with some music playing in my ears.

There was one time though when I had to do the commute for eleven days in a row (Monday to Thursday week) – that was a tad gruelling.

 

[RJ]

Does that mean impartial ticket clerks must offer the season ticket if asked for a return ticket when both journeys will be within 7 days and in peak?

I probably would if I spotted it. More often than not I wouldn't, as I type in origin and destination then filter by single, return or period.

 

[Goatboy]

Rubbish like that needs sorting out. Either increase the price of the season - significantly - or reduce the price of the Anytime return - significantly. It is ridiculous that 7 days unlimited travel between two stations costs less than a single use anytime return between those two stations.

Is there not a case for fixing the price of a 7 day season at 2-3 times the price of an Anytime Return with longer periods being a discounted multiple of the new figure?

Huge potential revenue loss there for TOC's which, if they were able to harvest, might allow them to keep fingers off the prices of the single journey tickets..

 

[island]

Is there not a case for fixing the price of a 7 day season at 2-3 times the price of an Anytime Return with longer periods being a discounted multiple of the new figure?

I would have expected in a lot of cases this to result in the season ticket rocketing in price rather than the SOR going down

 

[Moonshot]

Rubbish like that needs sorting out. Either increase the price of the season - significantly - or reduce the price of the Anytime return - significantly. It is ridiculous that 7 days unlimited travel between two stations costs less than a single use anytime return between those two stations.

Is there not a case for fixing the price of a 7 day season at 2-3 times the price of an Anytime Return with longer periods being a discounted multiple of the new figure?

Huge potential revenue loss there for TOC's which, if they were able to harvest, might allow them to keep fingers off the prices of the single journey tickets..

Or in other words.......remove the regulation on fares.

 

[Goatboy]

Or in other words.......remove the regulation on fares.

It seems like the inevitable result about cherry picking fares to regulate. If they had either regulated all of the fares or none of the fares this sort of stupid pricing descrepency probably wouldn't exist. I wonder if we'd infact end up with lower fares for a large number of journeys as they wouldn't have had the need to repeatedly pummel the unregulated fares with high percentage increases in order to fund the cushy cheap travel season ticket holders enjoy?

 

[Moonshot]

It seems like the inevitable result about cherry picking fares to regulate. If they had either regulated all of the fares or none of the fares this sort of stupid pricing descrepency probably wouldn't exist. I wonder if we'd infact end up with lower fares for a large number of journeys as they wouldn't have had the need to repeatedly pummel the unregulated fares with high percentage increases in order to fund the cushy cheap travel season ticket holders enjoy?

I would say you are correct......

 

[HSTEd]

You are in fantasy land if you think they will not raise ticket prices by the largest they can get away with.
Any increases in season price will be as well as singles, not instead of.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It seems like the inevitable result about cherry picking fares to regulate. If they had either regulated all of the fares or none of the fares this sort of stupid pricing descrepency probably wouldn't exist. I wonder if we'd infact end up with lower fares for a large number of journeys as they wouldn't have had the need to repeatedly pummel the unregulated fares with high percentage increases in order to fund the cushy cheap travel season ticket holders enjoy?

Why wouldn't they?
They want as much money as possible.
It does not appear that travel is being significantly reduced by fare increases and thus fares should be increased more to reach the maximum income result.

Companies have no responsibility other than making the best return on investment possible.

 

[Moonshot]

You are in fantasy land if you think they will not raise ticket prices by the largest they can get away with.
Any increases in season price will be as well as singles, not instead of.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why wouldn't they?
They want as much money as possible.
It does not appear that travel is being significantly reduced by fare increases and thus fares should be increased more to reach the maximum income result.

Companies have no responsibility other than making the best return on investment possible.

Which is the principle underpinning free market economics.....

 

[bennorthyork]

At the end of January I'll be ending 4 months of long commuting. It's slightly over 3 hours each way every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday with the bulk of the journey being York - Kings Cross with a drive of 30 minutes at the York end and approx 30 minutes tube plus walk from Kings Cross.

So the question is why?

I was told I was being made redundant and couldn't find another job in York. I'd only 6 months ago moved house with my young family out of York into the countryside. So when I was offered a job (with the same company) in London I took it as there was no obvious alternative. I hoped it wouldn't be long term and that I would find another job in York at some point. We'd agreed if I hadn't found another job in York after a year then we'd all move to near London. As luck would have it I've now found another job back in York so I'm very pleased and the long commute will end at the end of January.

The next question then is why not stay overnight in London?

It's a question of time with the family. Yes, I don't see them much in the evening, probably only for a coupld of hours, but I do see them. My son gets very upset if I stay away overnight. My daughter is only 18 months old and can be a handful so even an hour in the evening with her gives my wife a break.

Is it ideal? Absolutely not but sometimes needs must. Luck has been on my side and it's only been a few months.

On the plus side you find on a regular 2 hour train journey that you do all the things you'd do at home like read the paper, eat, phone friends, catch up with e-mails and also do more work. I have been able to keep my hours in the office down to about 7 or 8.

 

[island]

At the end of January I'll be ending 4 months of long commuting. It's slightly over 3 hours each way every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday with the bulk of the journey being York - Kings Cross with a drive of 30 minutes at the York end and approx 30 minutes tube plus walk from Kings Cross.

York to Kings Cross? That's only 1 stop on the fast trains

 

[westv]

The last thing I want to do when travelling to work on the train is work LOL!

On another point, is it my imagination or does the north of England have some huge differences in travelling times to London from areas of similar distance?

 

[bennorthyork]

York to Kings Cross? That's only 1 stop on the fast trains

Unfortunately the 06.00 is not a fast train. The 17.00 return however is thankfully!

 

[fowler9]

At the end of January I'll be ending 4 months of long commuting. It's slightly over 3 hours each way every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday with the bulk of the journey being York - Kings Cross with a drive of 30 minutes at the York end and approx 30 minutes tube plus walk from Kings Cross.

So the question is why?

I was told I was being made redundant and couldn't find another job in York. I'd only 6 months ago moved house with my young family out of York into the countryside. So when I was offered a job (with the same company) in London I took it as there was no obvious alternative. I hoped it wouldn't be long term and that I would find another job in York at some point. We'd agreed if I hadn't found another job in York after a year then we'd all move to near London. As luck would have it I've now found another job back in York so I'm very pleased and the long commute will end at the end of January.

The next question then is why not stay overnight in London?

It's a question of time with the family. Yes, I don't see them much in the evening, probably only for a coupld of hours, but I do see them. My son gets very upset if I stay away overnight. My daughter is only 18 months old and can be a handful so even an hour in the evening with her gives my wife a break.

Is it ideal? Absolutely not but sometimes needs must. Luck has been on my side and it's only been a few months.

On the plus side you find on a regular 2 hour train journey that you do all the things you'd do at home like read the paper, eat, phone friends, catch up with e-mails and also do more work. I have been able to keep my hours in the office down to about 7 or 8.

Hey mate, I hope that after some of my previous comments about long commutes you don't think I was criticising your parenting or life etc. Some times you have to do what you have to do.

 

[al78]

Which is the principle underpinning free market economics.....

Wealth /= happiness.

 

[Golden Gripper]

Having worked for the railways for 30 years I heard quite a few commuting stories from various colleagues. One involved a person who lived in Doncaster (where he had family ties) and worked in York. He then got a job at the ond BRB HQ ay 222. This was in the 1980s, and the HST had just been introduced on the ECML, so he could get to work in 2 hours.

However, his boss thought this was too much, and he was told he must move to the south east. So he looked around and suggested that he move to the Southampton area. They were happy with this, in spite of it still taking 2 hours to get to work. It's all a matter of perception!!!

 

[cuccir]

Examples such as Ben's above have become increasingly common as young professionals are expected to be highly mobile, and to take short-term contracts early in their career.

In my industry, academia, people who have finished their PhD are now often expected to work on short term contracts, ranging from one term to three years. This may be to work on one research project, or to cover teaching for while more senior academics go on research leave (we'll leave the question as to whether this provides good value for money for students paying £9K a year for another time). This results in a lot of people commuting long distances, even if often only for a few months. While individually they may not be 'extreme commuters' for a long time, the cumulative effect in this and similar industries must add up.

 

[Hyphen]

I too did a period of extreme commuting, although I'm rather glad it wasn't daily. The below response is partly to do with commuting, although more in response to:

Examples such as Ben's above have become increasingly common as young professionals are expected to be highly mobile

During my university days I got a part-time job with a company in Swansea, looking after their local IT. I was aware there was an outsourced IT function for the (fairly small) group it was part of, but I was told to have nothing to do with it and that they were happier with local support, if part-time.

At the time I finished university, a shuffle-up in the group meant IT was being moved in-house and that my skills would be welcomed for the group. I was offered a full time position, but was told my desk would be in Sheffield! However, I wasn't expected to move and was told the company would pay for my travel and put me up in the company lodge, which I shared with some of the directors as necessary. If the lodge was full, I'd be sorted out with a hotel. I retained access to a hot-desk in Swansea as I'd spend some weeks there. A third site I was responsible for in Grimsby didn't keep a desk for me although that was a fairly easy day commute from Sheffield.

So for a good year and a half, most weeks I was leaving Swansea early on the Monday morning and travelling to Sheffield, arriving around 1/2pm. I'd work through until Friday early afternoon then would do the same trip back, usually getting home around 6/7pm. (This was the period in which I developed my deep-rooted hatred of Voyagers - I still attempt to avoid them like the plague today)

Having no family to worry about, the constraints of being away didn't really bother me too much - in fact, I think I quite enjoyed it at the start. At the time I was living in a house-share with people I knew from uni, most of whom were staying on to do PhDs. However, after a year or so of this, by which point I mostly had the lodge just to myself, I was starting to feel fairly isolated in that I didn't really see anyone during the week apart from colleagues.

This carried on for another 6 months, and due to another group shuffle (and a review of spending on travel) I was moved away from a group role and I was re-contracted with the Sheffield site. So I moved up north, although I moved to Chesterfield as an old school friend was just starting a job in Mansfield and I flat-shared with her.

After another year and a half, when the group sold the Sheffield business, I was moved once again back to a group role, based again in Swansea, to where I moved once more. :roll:

 

[PHILIPE]

I notice that a member has started another thread today on this topic which can only cause confusion due to duplication and uncertainty where to post any inputs to the Forum.

 

[VauxhallandI]

The civil service does not use that company. Redfern Travel is central government's contracted domestic travel supplier.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
London is expensive to live but extremely cheap to travel by public transport in comparison to non-metropolitan areas.

A large proportion of Central Gov also have international travel too so they will use HRG (Lot2) rather than Redfern.

HRG's online train tool is a certain train line tool

 

[fowler9]

I notice that a member has started another thread today on this topic which can only cause confusion due to duplication and uncertainty where to post any inputs to the Forum.

Its not that confusing mate. This kind of post just results in people getting there comments moved all over the shop and trying to work out what they said to who and why.

 

[work-traveller]

I think it's a fairly well established that there are a decent number of people who make weekly commutes from various parts of the Highlands and West Country to central London. Quite a nice way to go about it - for a period of time anyway.

Separately, I know someone who used to make a weekly commute from London to central Paris for work. Something that happens in the other direction as well no doubt.