The State Of Rail Travel In Lincolnshire

[Donny Dave]

The reason for the line which I'm not putting in any set route as I don't know the area well enough to come up with a concrete route but would have junctions towards Hull, Selby and Goole (for freight) would be used to avoid problems with the line from the canal crossing and Thorne. Transport patterns will change. HS2 and HS3 will make it quicker for passenger from Grimsby / Scunthorpe to travel via Leeds and not Doncaster. Sheffield can also be reached via Leeds once Hs2 and Hs3 have been built. I maybe didn't make myself clear but this also a way to link South Humberside into Hs3.

Right then, before I start, I'm going to estimate the journey time for Scunthorpe - Leeds via Selby at 1 hour and 10 minutes if your hypothetical route is built.

Scunthorpe - Sheffield currently ~1 hour. Via your new route, including the change at Leeds that goes upto ~ 2 hours. Same for Scunthorpe - York.

Scunthorpe - Newark again is approx. 1 hour. Via your new route it would be over 2 hours, with the possibilty of a further change at Doncaster!

Scunthorpe - Manchester is currently 1 hour and 55 minutes. Assuming the new service is direct with no change at Leeds, I'm still looking at a 15-20 minute increase on my journey time there ....

If this is to connect to the new HS2, then the only possible place I would be able to travel quicker to would be Edinburgh. Even London going via Leeds and HS2 would only see a 10-15 minute time saving, if that.

Besides, isn't HS2 planned to have a station at Meadowhall anyway? If so, then your proposed route is a non starter to begin with.

Crowle is used by around 30,000 people and Thorne South can either be served by an increased frequency or remain open as a terminus.

I'm not suggesting this is the best plan but this a problem which holds back South Humberside.

What would be the point of using Thorne South as a terminus? If your going to do that, you may as well shut the station and re-direct passengers to Thorne North ....

 

[Grimsby town]

The route would only be useful if High speed 3 is built. I maybe wasn't making myself clear but I did write Hs3 a number of times so I thought I had. Hs3 is meant to link Hull so the line would connect into this line which is likely to have higher line speeds with the kind of figures being branded around. Leeds and Manchester are more important cities than Sheffield. With Hs3 the time reductions will be reduced significantly. As long as Sheffield is linked directly by HS3 time shouldn't be much difference. Scunthorpe would sacrifice a direct connection to Sheffield for quicker journeys to Manchester and Leeds. Hull is still to have faster journeys to Sheffield with Hs3 so there must be a way to link into that line.

All the rest of the connection times would be maintained. I don't see were Newark to Scunthorpe comes in to it the travel patterns can't be significant.

If journey times to Leeds can be made similar todays journey time to Doncaster then having Leeds as a connecting station rather than Doncaster will make a huge difference. 7tph to York compared to 2tph. Once Hs2 has opened more trains to London and more to Newcastle.

Sorry Thorne I missed that Thorne could be served by an increase frequency via the Goole line.

This wouldn't make sense today but in the future it just might if Hs3 is anything more than a figment of George Osborne's imagination
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why would Crowle and Thorne South need to shut?
Northern could still run and just TPE on this route.
Personally I'd rather use the new track to link Brigg and Scunthorpe.
An alternative route to Doncaster does exist via Gainsborough anyway.
I suggest a look at JMP South Humber rail report.

I doubt the maintenance costs of the line can be justified just for the hourly northern service.

 

[lincolnshire]

With regards to the line going through the land being on a peat bog, I believe that Barnetby to Scunthorpe is also on similar land but the linespeed is planned to be increased to 75mph and doesn't see the same sinking as the line near the Keadby Canal.

The landslip at stainforth was a freak event but as I mentioned it seems there are speed restrictions again on the stretch between the Keadby Canal and Thorne.

The reason for the line which I'm not putting in any set route as I don't know the area well enough to come up with a concrete route but would have junctions towards Hull, Selby and Goole (for freight) would be used to avoid problems with the line from the canal crossing and Thorne. Transport patterns will change. HS2 and HS3 will make it quicker for passenger from Grimsby / Scunthorpe to travel via Leeds and not Doncaster. Sheffield can also be reached via Leeds once Hs2 and Hs3 have been built. I maybe didn't make myself clear but this also a way to link South Humberside into Hs3.

Crowle is used by around 30,000 people and Thorne South can either be served by an increased frequency or remain open as a terminus.

I'm not suggesting this is the best plan but this a problem which holds back South Humberside.

I think you will find that at Barnetby end of the line its built on chalk underground before moving onto not so good land from Elsham till it crosses the River Ancholme and then its onto Appleby. Appleby to Scunthorpe is built on Ironstone below, as there used to be underground ironstone mine at Santon just after the turn off to Santon Foreign Ore Terminal. I don,t think there has ever been any peat bogs under the area between Elsham and Appleby.

Crowle Moors, Goole Moors & Thorne Moors are all peat bogs from years ago and used to supply great quantities of peat for grow bags etc. Goole Moors also used to have its own narrow gauge railway system to bring the peat back form the digging area to the packaging plant.

Now that peat cutting has finished and the drainage of the land has changed to try and restore & re-establish the peat bogs it could be causing the problems with the line stability between Crowle and Thorne South.

It could be something else whats thats the problem or it might be another area of the line that now needs a job doing as they did before as its all the same sort of ground.

When you also stop and think how many trains use this line and weight of the trains be it passenger or freight it will need quite a bit of maintenance doing on it.

As for HS2 and HS3 I will believe it when I see it, don,t let Network Rail loose on it as they bill have spent the money before they start work on it, we have just seen what they have done with the electrification project, a lot put on hold.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Grimsby town, I made a map according to your comments. Please correct me if I made it different to your suggestion in any way.
Is this what you had in mind?

 

[Grimsby town]

I'd envisage something like this. New South Humber line would be a fairly small length of line with junctions to Goole (mainly for freight but could be used for Doncaster services), Hull and Leeds. The blue line is HS3 which would run at 125mph. I would only see the new line running at around 75mph but it would link into a line that runs at 125mph to Leeds, Hull and Manchester so journey times would be relatively short.

Perhaps the Geology could not support 75 mph. I'm not sure but this seems like a way to allow South Humberside to be part of Hs3 and remove a problem area.

 

[Donny Dave]

I'm still extremely uncertain as to what the benefits would be gained from building a new route from Scunthorpe (via Selby) to Leeds to connect with the new HS line would entail considering your map shows a connection at Meadowhall (served with 2tph from Scunthorpe, 1tph from Grimsby). For definate, there are no journey time improvements (based on my estimate in an earlier post) gained for regional, local and semi-regional traffic, and decimated local traffic. (who would want to sit on a train (including a change) for a near 2 hour journey from Scunthorpe to Doncaster? That is a journey of a mere 26 miles!)

In my opinion, you far over-estimate the solution for a (to be fair, not a small) problem, but what is required (and will be far cheaper) is Chat Moss style upgrade which will allow line speeds between 75-90mph between Scunthorpe and Hatfield and Stainforth, and a resignalling program between Lincoln/Scunthorpe - Barnetby - Grimsby which would allow higher line speeds and greater capacity.

In summary, your proposed route (and all the associated junctions) is a complete pie in the sky fantasy which benefits no one, with several villages completely cut off from the railway network. It would be a far greater benefit if the upgrades I detailed above could be implemented, as well as a single chord route* between Scunthorpe and Brigg built and an enhanced (Sheffield - ) Doncaster - Scunthorpe - Grimsby (via Brigg) service which could then be introduced.

* I've detailed in various posts in this topic that the line via Brigg is badly orientated. Instead of serving Grimsby and Scunthorpe (the 2 major leisure and employment centers for Brigg), the first notable place it serves heading West is Retford (for (poor) ECML connections).

 

[lincolnshire]

In my opinion, you far over-estimate the solution for a (to be fair, not a small) problem, but what is required (and will be far cheaper) is Chat Moss style upgrade which will allow line speeds between 75-90mph between Scunthorpe and Hatfield and Stainforth, and a resignalling program between Lincoln/Scunthorpe - Barnetby - Grimsby which would allow higher line speeds and greater capacity.

The quote from David above.

Well after Father Christmas has been this year Grimsby area, Barnetby, Wrawby Junction and Elsham and Appleby through to Scunthorpe will all be resignalled as it planned for no trains from Christmas Day through to sometime in January while they commission the new signalling, so we may see an increase in line speed afterwards. The existing signalling between Scunthorpe and Stainforth is now 40 years old and could do with upgrading as the trains that did run un-fitted freight, old mineral wagons of lower speeds have now all gone and been replaced by higher speed all fitted trains so an increase in line speed would help all trains running on the line.

 

[Grimsby town]

I'm still extremely uncertain as to what the benefits would be gained from building a new route from Scunthorpe (via Selby) to Leeds to connect with the new HS line would entail considering your map shows a connection at Meadowhall (served with 2tph from Scunthorpe, 1tph from Grimsby). For definate, there are no journey time improvements (based on my estimate in an earlier post) gained for regional, local and semi-regional traffic, and decimated local traffic. (who would want to sit on a train (including a change) for a near 2 hour journey from Scunthorpe to Doncaster? That is a journey of a mere 26 miles!)

In my opinion, you far over-estimate the solution for a (to be fair, not a small) problem, but what is required (and will be far cheaper) is Chat Moss style upgrade which will allow line speeds between 75-90mph between Scunthorpe and Hatfield and Stainforth, and a resignalling program between Lincoln/Scunthorpe - Barnetby - Grimsby which would allow higher line speeds and greater capacity.

In summary, your proposed route (and all the associated junctions) is a complete pie in the sky fantasy which benefits no one, with several villages completely cut off from the railway network. It would be a far greater benefit if the upgrades I detailed above could be implemented, as well as a single chord route* between Scunthorpe and Brigg built and an enhanced (Sheffield - ) Doncaster - Scunthorpe - Grimsby (via Brigg) service which could then be introduced.

* I've detailed in various posts in this topic that the line via Brigg is badly orientated. Instead of serving Grimsby and Scunthorpe (the 2 major leisure and employment centers for Brigg), the first notable place it serves heading West is Retford (for (poor) ECML connections).

You seem to be stuck on the fact that all passengers go to Sheffield or Doncaster. Travel patterns change and vastly improved times to Manchester and Leeds will far outweigh building a line to Brigg. I do agree the rail line would be better serving Brigg but similar problems exist at Immingham.

Perhaps the best way to serve North Lincolnshire is an upgrade to the current line as is planned. I was merely trying to stimulate conversation on solutions to the current route. Yes the route is complete fantasy as I made it up in my head as a solution to the current route failings and to link Grimsby to Highspeed 3.

From what I have read the signal upgrades will lead to speed increases between Wraby and Scunthorpe but not west of Scunthorpe.

 

[lincolnshire]

You will get an increase in the amount of trains you can run between Wrawby and Scunthorpe as there will be more signals installed than whats there at present. The new signalling will have been designed for the trains that are running today. At present there is big block sections with running time in each section of minutes between signals. It may also allow and increase in speed too.
The section between Scunthorpe and Doncaster was designed for running trains 40 years ago and maybe will not permit an increase in speed as I believe its all 3 aspect colour light signalled between Thorne Junction and Scunthorpe. May be when control of this section is moved over to the York ROC things might get upgraded or it might be 40 year old installation controlled by York ROC instead of Scunthorpe Power Box.

We will just have to wait and see what happens.

Years ago there was a train from Cleethorpes to Leeds direct avoiding Doncaster, it left the line at Stainforth and went up the avoiding line direct to Leeds. We could think about reinstating that again? with the additional cost of drivers, guards route learning the route through to Leeds. Every thing these days is down to money .

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

According to the JMP Report "Economic Impacts of Rail on the South Humber:
A 10mins time reduction to Doncaster would boost the local economy by £5.1million.
A half houry service from Cleethorpes would add £4.6million.
And reduced connection times to Leeds would add £2million to the South Humber economy.

The report also states expected changes in passenger numbers and most interestingly the loss that would have happened if TPE was lost.
A new line to Leeds as Grimsby town suggests would be great, but they'll always be a need for direct Sheffield trains for tourism in Cleethorpes and connections and shopping in South Yorkshire, I don't see why direct trains should stop as a result. The Church Fenton ECML bypass is a good example of a redundant line still getting services, so Crowle could keep it's too.

 

[Donny Dave]

You seem to be stuck on the fact that all passengers go to Sheffield or Doncaster.

Whoa! Hold on a minute! I didn't not say all passengers go to Sheffield or Doncaster, just that they are the main flows for passengers from Grimsby and Scunthorpe.

Building a new line to Leeds from just West of Scunthorpe and closing or severely reducing the frequency between Scunthorpe and Doncaster will not be a benefit to passengers from either Scunthorpe or Grimsby.

25 minutes by train from here (Scunthorpe) is a perfectly good main line station with good connections to Leeds, York and further North as well as London.

50 minutes from here is a major shopping center and local transport interchange (Meadowhall), also the site of a planned future HSL connection.

55-60 minutes from here is another mainline interchange station with connections for the Midlands and South West/Reading.

1 hour and 50 minutes from here is a major Network Rail owned and managed station with very good transport links to the West Midlands and North West.

Why forsake all that for a longer journey to Leeds with less interchanges along the way with increased journey times to reach most destinations from here, especially London?

If it came to a choice of being force to travel via Leeds by rail to get anywhere, or just jump in my car for a short drive to Doncaster, then my car would win every time ....

 

[lincolnshire]

The Church Fenton ECML bypass is a good example of a redundant line still getting services, so Crowle could keep it's too.

The quote above by Grimsby Pacer has me a bit puzzled, as Church Fenton is not and has never been on the East Coast Mainline, its on the York / Leeds line.
When they brought in the ECML diversion there was no stations between York and Doncaster on the old line except Selby which lost a great number of services and connections to Doncaster. Its only in later years that since Hull Trains goes by Selby to Doncaster and Northern have a few services that go between Hull and Doncaster via Selby regained a decent service to Doncaster again.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What would be the point of using Thorne South as a terminus? If your going to do that, you may as well shut the station and re-direct passengers to Thorne North ....

You coulds always have a Thorne East (which could be built at the top end of Chuch Balk). Get the services to terminate there and it would mean that the station would be a lot closer to the town centre.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The Church Fenton ECML bypass is a good example of a redundant line still getting services, so Crowle could keep it's too.

The quote above by Grimsby Pacer has me a bit puzzled, as Church Fenton is not and has never been on the East Coast Mainline, its on the York / Leeds line.
When they brought in the ECML diversion there was no stations between York and Doncaster on the old line except Selby which lost a great number of services and connections to Doncaster. Its only in later years that since Hull Trains goes by Selby to Doncaster and Northern have a few services that go between Hull and Doncaster via Selby regained a decent service to Doncaster again.

Sorry, I worded that badly. What I ment to say was that trains from Hull still run the long way around when heading to York through a rural area despite the closer ECML. So I don't understand why Crowle should close when the Scunthorpe to Selby line opens in Grimsby town's plan. The Hull to York and Scunthorpe to Sheffield trains both use Pacers, these trains using the current line rather than the longer newer one, would allow faster Leeds trains from South Humberside.

 

[Grimsby town]

The current Scunthorpe to Thorne line could be kept open as maintence costs could be reduced a lot if freight stops going that way.

Whoa! Hold on a minute! I didn't not say all passengers go to Sheffield or Doncaster, just that they are the main flows for passengers from Grimsby and Scunthorpe.

Building a new line to Leeds from just West of Scunthorpe and closing or severely reducing the frequency between Scunthorpe and Doncaster will not be a benefit to passengers from either Scunthorpe or Grimsby.

25 minutes by train from here (Scunthorpe) is a perfectly good main line station with good connections to Leeds, York and further North as well as London.

50 minutes from here is a major shopping center and local transport interchange (Meadowhall), also the site of a planned future HSL connection.

55-60 minutes from here is another mainline interchange station with connections for the Midlands and South West/Reading.

1 hour and 50 minutes from here is a major Network Rail owned and managed station with very good transport links to the West Midlands and North West.

Why forsake all that for a longer journey to Leeds with less interchanges along the way with increased journey times to reach most destinations from here, especially London?

If it came to a choice of being force to travel via Leeds by rail to get anywhere, or just jump in my car for a short drive to Doncaster, then my car would win every time ....

What I'm proposing is linking the new line into a 125mph line from Hull to Leeds reducing the journey time to Leeds and Manchester significantly. Leeds would become the new interchange station instead of Doncaster as Scunthorpe to Leeds would become a similar journey time to Scunthorpe to Doncaster today. This plan does require Hs3 to be implemented. Leeds has better connections than Doncaster and is a larger, more important city than Sheffield.

Upgrades are more likely to happen I admit but I'm not sure how much time can be saved from Scunthorpe to Sheffield as we all no upgrades are disruptive and expensive.

According to the Hs3 diagram Hull is to have a service to Sheffield via Leeds in 50 mins and one option to achieve this is running via Leeds and Hs2 so Scunthorpe and Grimsby could keep a fast service to Sheffield if this how Hs3 unfolds.

 

[Donny Dave]

What I'm proposing is linking the new line into a 125mph line from Hull to Leeds reducing the journey time to Leeds and Manchester significantly. Leeds would become the new interchange station instead of Doncaster as Scunthorpe to Leeds would become a similar journey time to Scunthorpe to Doncaster today. This plan does require Hs3 to be implemented. Leeds has better connections than Doncaster and is a larger, more important city than Sheffield.

Upgrades are more likely to happen I admit but I'm not sure how much time can be saved from Scunthorpe to Sheffield as we all no upgrades are disruptive and expensive.

According to the Hs3 diagram Hull is to have a service to Sheffield via Leeds in 50 mins and one option to achieve this is running via Leeds and Hs2 so Scunthorpe and Grimsby could keep a fast service to Sheffield if this how Hs3 unfolds.

Ok, I'll bite ....

Scunthorpe to Leeds in a similar time to the current Scunthorpe - Doncaster service? You'll not manage that on a 125mph alignment with the slow approach to Leeds, and the canal bridge at Keadby ....

Hull - Sheffield via Leeds in 50 minutes ?!?!?!? hock: Now I know your living in cloud cookoo land! To achieve that, a HS line would need to be built between Hull and Leeds as well as the proposed HS line that comes up from London and connects Leeds and Sheffield.

It doesn't matter how big and important a city is. If a station or 2 along the current route can provide (very) good links to where people want to go, then why change things for a handful of passengers who want to go to Leeds, at massive expense, and a longer journey?

I'll re-iterate what I've said previously. The only things needed are signalling and capacity improvements, plus some improved line speeds. It wouldn't take much to knock a reasonable amount of time out of the current South TPE service. A 75mph line speed (where possible) between Grimsby and Hatfield & Stainforth (instead of the current 55/60mph) would save 10-15 minutes, more if the line speed could be improved further to 90 mph. The other side of Doncaster is trickier though, as there isn't much scope to increase the line speed around Conisborough (50 mph through the tunnel IIRC). The only way to reduce the journey time further is to allow the class 185s to run at HST/SP differentials, which would make quite a difference over the Hope Valley (and save another minute or so between Swinton and Meadowhall).

 

[DeeGee]

I haven't had the chance to see how the new FTPE and Northern franchises are going to affect northern Lincolnshire.

Do we have any news on these as yet, or is it too early to know?
.What's happening to the Barton line?
.Is anything happening to the Brigg Line?
.Are we getting out peak-time through Manchester train back?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

For TPE:
Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town and Scunthorpe stations will have refurbishment.
The current trains will be refitted with wifi.
For Northern:
Pacers willbe replaced.

No improvements for Brigg, Barton.
No extra Manchester train again.
Sorry but it's the West & Mid North with the biggest benefits and little for the East. Hull also is largely ignored.

 

[DeeGee]

For TPE:
Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town and Scunthorpe stations will have refurbishment.
The current trains will be refitted with wifi.
For Northern:
Pacers willbe replaced.

No improvements for Brigg, Barton.
No extra Manchester train again.
Sorry but it's the West & Mid North with the biggest benefits and little for the East. Hull also is largely ignored.

"Refurbishment?". Cleethorpes could use a thorough rethink, but I'm not sure what Grimsby Town needs other than a lick of paint?

 

[Grimsby town]

I didn't expect anything from the Northern or the TPE franchises for the area but seeing what other areas have got makes me think the area has been left out. Even places like Bridlington will see a better service than Grimsby after improvements.

All that can be hoped for the area now is that Alliance get paths for their London service and the East Midlands franchises delivers some improvements. After seeing the Northern improvements an hourly service on the Lincoln Line seems fair but at the very least a 2 hourly clockface service is needed.

I hope who ever runs the Barton Line runs it with d trains(should be maintainable at Cleethorpes, better accleration), has enough drivers to run the service and has a spare unit at Cleethorpes. The reliablity has been terrible and that makes it hard to increase regular ridership.

With the Brigg Line I have come around to the idea of it being run by East Midlands perhaps using D trains based at Cleethorpes. Even if it is only a shuttle to Redford/Worksop using one unit, it would be a start for the Line.

I'd hope that First would work with the Council to develop a bus station next to cleethorpes station in the current car park subject to to the car park being replaced.

 

[backontrack]

Do you think that there is much demand for new services to Immingham?

 

[tbtc]

For TPE:
Cleethorpes, Grimsby Town and Scunthorpe stations will have refurbishment.
The current trains will be refitted with wifi.
For Northern:
Pacers willbe replaced.

No improvements for Brigg, Barton.
No extra Manchester train again.
Sorry but it's the West & Mid North with the biggest benefits and little for the East. Hull also is largely ignored.

The "new shelter at Scunthorpe" appears to be the only improvement along the South TPE corridor (yes, new 125mph trains and electrification for the North TPE corridor, but at least there'll be a shelter at Scunthorpe ).

Seriously though, Hull does quite well out of the announcements, with

• The Scarborough service beefed up to hourly
• More services to Bridlington too
• A doubling of the service to Leeds (with a new hourly Northern service)
• Hull to York becomes increased to hourly
• The hourly Sheffield service will get new stock as well as an extension to Chesterfield (best on a Thursday, for the markets)...

I'd settle for those kind of improvements

 

[DeeGee]

I'd hope that First would work with the Council to develop a bus station next to cleethorpes station in the current car park subject to to the car park being replaced.

It's no huge hardship to go from the Pier to the Station, though. It's certainly no worse than other similar towns.

 

[mac]

Do you think that there is much demand for new services to Immingham?

How would you have a service to Immingham?

 

[Grimsby town]

Last time I looked all TPE trains were given the same timing between Grimsby and Barnetby no matter if they stopped at Habrough or not. So stopping more TPE trains is easy enough. A bus link between Habrough and Immingham might increase the amount of users. Increasing car parking would be easy enough as well.

More expensive, fanciful solutions to Immingham would either to provide a parkway station at the B1210 crossing which will soon have a link to the A180 and is on the current Immingham to Grimsby bus route. The other solution would to build a tram train route through Immingham joining the mainline near Stallingbrough and then running through to Cleethorpes. I doubt either of these will happen.

On a side note I wonder if Linespeeds will be increased between Grimsby and Scunthorpe after the resignalling. From what I've read Barnetby to Wrawby junction will see an increase from 30mph to 50 mph. Wrawby to Scunthorpe will be resignalled to allow 75mph but the track won't currently allow this. Is there any reason why Grimsby to Barnetby can't be increased to 75mph or higher?

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Do you think that there is much demand for new services to Immingham?

Usage has increased on some Barton Line stations like Healing.
A train could run hourly to Habrough with one to Barton, and one to Immingham train shed. The 5m bus runs there and it's close to the MIC plant and docks, but it's a 15min walk from the County Hotel. A station at South Killingholme would also be possible. Passenger trains last ran to Immingham Dock in 1980. The tramway was the last in England to shut, and was making a profit when last used (BR didn't want a tram).

But it's only a mile from the mainline, it muse be cheaper to link the town with a new line than similarly sized Louth or Weighton??
The Parkway idea is one I'm not sure about.
Since Habrough isn't well served by TPE now anyway.

As for Cleethorpes bus station, that is a good idea.
But I want one in Grimsby first!
Those Victoria/George/Town Hall street bus stops are plain silly.

I think a hourly Barton/Newark to Cleethorpes all stops service pattern would be the easiest improvement for the railway.

 

[lincolnshire]

I did see in the Scunthorpe Telegraph website that Brigg station has got its new footbridge, don,t think the passenger numbers will wear it out.

 

[DeeGee]

I think a hourly Barton/Newark to Cleethorpes all stops service pattern would be the easiest improvement for the railway.

One way to Lincoln, one way to Barton (with onward bus for Hull and through ticketing), early enough in the morning and late enough at night to be of some use, and AM and PM trains at Barnetby to allow pax going to and coming from the KLM flights at Kirmington to get home without having to take a £25 taxi. A shuttle bus service to Barnetby like the one I got the other month in Modlin would be brilliant!

 

[Grimsby town]

Usage has increased on some Barton Line stations like Healing.
A train could run hourly to Habrough with one to Barton, and one to Immingham train shed. The 5m bus runs there and it's close to the MIC plant and docks, but it's a 15min walk from the County Hotel. A station at South Killingholme would also be possible. Passenger trains last ran to Immingham Dock in 1980. The tramway was the last in England to shut, and was making a profit when last used (BR didn't want a tram).

But it's only a mile from the mainline, it muse be cheaper to link the town with a new line than similarly sized Louth or Weighton??
The Parkway idea is one I'm not sure about.
Since Habrough isn't well served by TPE now anyway.

As for Cleethorpes bus station, that is a good idea.
But I want one in Grimsby first!
Those Victoria/George/Town Hall street bus stops are plain silly.

I think a hourly Barton/Newark to Cleethorpes all stops service pattern would be the easiest improvement for the railway.

Grimsby bus station is a complete joke and it is terrible that the council moved away from their original pull in, reverse out indoor hub, that so many cities have adopted, on the grounds of safety and ending up with one that is hugely impractical and hardly safe with buses having to drive on pavements.

Anyway back to the railways. Habrough, Great Coates and Stallingborough are seeing significant growth. Satllingborough has seen an increase from 8000 in 2004/2005 to over 13,000 in 2015/2016. Healing and Great Coates have seen similar rises over the period. I don't think the Barton Line deserves an increased frequency at the moment but this could be re-evaluated after reliability has been improved consistently.

The Lincoln line service could be made hourly with the alternate hour to Barton service calling at all stations. Another issue is that the last train out of Cleethorpes is at 9:15 and doesn't call at all stations. If there was a service that left an hour later it would allow more people to have an evening at Cleethorpes which has developed a thriving evening economy with restraunts, bars and the cinema.

 

[Harpers Tate]

.....onward bus for Hull and through ticketing

This is the one thing I think should have been present on the Barton Line right from the day the ferry closed: a bus operated by the Railway forming part of the timetabled Railway service, rather than the fragmented situation that exists at present. There were, briefly, integrated "Humberlink" through tickets from north to south but the bus was always separately operated. It should always have been a virtual train, with connections guaranteed.