The Times: Labour considering cuts to Restoring Your Railway and dropping HS2 Euston

[eldomtom2]

Buried in a longer Times article about Labour considering cutbacks is the claim that Labour are considering cancelling Restoring Your Railway projects outside of Northumberland and Camp Hill (Portishead is specifically called out as potentially at risk), as well as considering cancelling HS2 Euston:

Rachel Reeves ready to deliver the bad news: Britain is broke

The chancellor’s team have gone through the books and she says it is not pretty. She may have to raise taxes and cut projects to plug a ‘black hole’, blaming Tory profligacy, a claim disputed by her predecessor

www.thetimes.com

Among the schemes to be substantially cut back or scrapped, includes the previous government’s £500 million Restoring Your Railway Fund. Proposals to resurrect 45 rail lines scrapped under the Beeching cuts of the 1960s in order to boost “communities that have been left behind” were included in Boris Johnson’s 2019 manifesto.
Since 2020, just one line has been reopened, the Dartmoor line between Okehampton and Exeter. Several others are already under construction, including the Northumberland line and the Camp Hill line between Birmingham New Street and Kings Norton, which are due to open later this year and in autumn next year respectively. When the previous government published its most recent list of successful bids in October 2021, it did not include the amount of cash allocated to each project. Among the schemes likely to be at risk include those not yet under construction, including a service between Bristol and Portishead.
Ministers are also weighing up whether to scrap the Euston section of the HS2 project, which would mean high-speed rail trains would instead run from a new hub at Old Oak Common in west London’s suburbs rather than going all the way into the city centre with a new tunnel.
Commuters would have to use the Elizabeth Line to complete their journeys into central London on the Underground in an effor to save billions of pounds for the project. Last week, Louise Haigh, the transport secretary, said the plans with HS2 were “an absolute mess” which would take a “huge job” to correct.
Before the election, the Conservative government had privately agreed to fund the project using a Tax Increment Financing scheme, similar to the one successfully used by Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, to pay £1 billion for the Northern Line extension between Kennington and Battersea, which opened in 2021. A significant part of the funding came from property developers who believed the new link would boost residential demand in the area.

 

[Sprinter158]

what stupid ideas, its as though hs2 is just becoming a funky little side project with no real use now.

 

[brad465]

How many of the proposed schemes here actually had funding to go ahead? Obviously the ones already built did, but 45 rail lines is a lot of projects from one fund and I've not heard a great deal about them getting anywhere before the election. The HS2 to Euston "being weighed up for scrapping" could be one of two things: either preparing us for it being scrapped so it's less surprising, or giving us a pessimistic take on the project ahead of it not being scrapped and then we can think "oh it's not so bad after all".

 

[D Williams]

Chickens, well great big turkeys , coming home to roost. The need for HS2 is melting away in the face of advanced IT.

 

[Busaholic]

It was Rishi Sunak who first announced HS2 wouldn't get to Euston, later amended by spin doctors to say it could go aheadbut only private funding, so Reeves is entirely right to say that no government spending has been allocated to it thus far, confirmed by the National Audit Office.

 

[HSTEd]

Well Labours manifesto committed them to a bunch of very expensive policies (triple lock et al).

Now that they aren't trying to win the election, out comes the axe to pay for it all.

(As the IFS noted, claiming that the finances are worse than they thought is in no way a credible claim)

 

[Tezza1978]

Chickens, well great big turkeys , coming home to roost. The need for HS2 is melting away in the face of advanced IT.

You clearly don't travel on the WCML regularly - or use Euston- if you genuinely believe that.

 

[philosopher]

Chickens, well great big turkeys , coming home to roost. The need for HS2 is melting away in the face of advanced IT.

I am not sure of the stats, but I suspect intercity traffic on the WCML is dominated by leisure traffic, which advanced IT has very little impact on.

 

[Grimsby town]

I am not sure of the stats, but I suspect intercity traffic on the WCML is dominated by leisure traffic, which advanced IT has very little impact on.

You'd be right. Over 70% of overall long distance travel is leisure travel, with visiting friends and family being the biggest component of this.

Cancelling spending on infrastructure is crazy. The UK already spends comparatively little on infrastructure. Its a huge drag on economy and one of the main reasons productivity has stalled. Its also a false economy to cancel HS2 to Euston for the sake of £6 billion. It means that the £45 billion+ spent on the rest of phase 1 has far lower returns. HS2 needs to get to Euston, it needs to get to Crewe, and it really should be linked to the East Midlands to maximise return.

 

[swt_passenger]

How many of the proposed schemes here actually had funding to go ahead? Obviously the ones already built did, but 45 rail lines is a lot of projects from one fund and I've not heard a great deal about them getting anywhere before the election. The HS2 to Euston "being weighed up for scrapping" could be one of two things: either preparing us for it being scrapped so it's less surprising, or giving us a pessimistic take on the project ahead of it not being scrapped and then we can think "oh it's not so bad after all".

As you imply they only ever announced about 45 applications, discussions, consultations, and business case analysis. Anyone assuming there’d actually be 45 reopenings must never have read any of the details…

 

[14xxDave]

It's a Times article. Remember that this is a Tory newspaper!

 

[Class 170101]

Seems very short sighted to me and lacks joined up policy thinking

So lets take HS2 since this is a Rail Forum but in a roundabout way

East Anglia is currently considered a water stressed area and so housing development becomes challenging.

East of England faces huge water shortage without action - experts

Experts say the East of England faces a projected shortage of 800 million litres per day by 2050.

www.bbc.co.uk

The East of England faces "projected water shortages of 800 million litres" per day by 2050, according to a group looking at water security.

Water Resources East (WRE) said food safety was at risk unless scarcity issues were tackled.

However people still travel to London for work but have moved out of London to bigger places than in London as they were spending less during the pandemic including season tickets and, with mortgage rates low, were able to afford the deposit and the monthly re-payments.

However this area cannot keep building unless the water issues are resolved but now we are talking about power issues too with an unpopular 400KV power line proposed from Norwich to Tilbury.

In my experience (and others too) infrastructure has failed to keep up with house building NHS services, schools etc.

HS2 helps to keep a given journey time to London but increases the geographical area in which those homes can be built thus reducing the density and the amount of infrastructure needed in the SE of England. It should also be noted that it tends to rain more further north and west (for the water issues) but also windier where we seem to placing our power offering and so the housing is nearer to where the power is being generated. Housing also tends to be cheaper the further away from London and major centres you go.

Discuss

 

[Topological]

Seems very short sighted to me and lacks joined up policy thinking

So lets take HS2 since this is a Rail Forum but in a roundabout way

East Anglia is currently considered a water stressed area and so housing development becomes challenging.

East of England faces huge water shortage without action - experts

Experts say the East of England faces a projected shortage of 800 million litres per day by 2050.

www.bbc.co.uk

However people still travel to London for work but have moved out of London to bigger places than in London as they were spending less during the pandemic including season tickets and, with mortgage rates low, were able to afford the deposit and the monthly re-payments.

However this area cannot keep building unless the water issues are resolved but now we are talking about power issues too with an unpopular 400KV power line proposed from Norwich to Tilbury.

In my experience (and others too) infrastructure has failed to keep up with house building NHS services, schools etc.

HS2 helps to keep a given journey time to London but increases the geographical area in which those homes can be built thus reducing the density and the amount of infrastructure needed in the SE of England. It should also be noted that it tends to rain more further north and west (for the water issues) but also windier where we seem to placing our power offering and so the housing is nearer to where the power is being generated. Housing also tends to be cheaper the further away from London and major centres you go.

Discuss

A very important point to my mind.

It also ensures that the major UK centres of economic activity are connected. This is a big change from the last time we built a network when transport was hard and centres could be much closer in geographic terms.

I have long argued that we need to revisit the way we see the UK organised and think more regionally than "county" based. But, old habits die hard and HS2 is therefore viewed as only benefitting certain "counties".

IF the Times is Tory then there is not much left for Labour. I always think the Murdoch papers go whichever way they think the winner is going.

 

[JonathanH]

what stupid ideas, its as though hs2 is just becoming a funky little side project with no real use now.

The only reason HS2 phase 1 is being finished between Old Oak Common and Birmingham is because it was too embarrassing to pull the plug given the amount already spent on it. I suspect that the Labour Party would have breathed a huge sigh of relief if it had been cancelled completely last October.

The NAO report criticised the fact that no one has really got any view about the rail service that can be run once Phase 1 is built other than Old Oak Common to Curzon Street. Even then, there will still likely be 2tph from Euston to Birmingham via Weedon to continue Coventry having a fast service to London, 2tph on the Chiltern line and 2tph via Northampton, with lots of people from the West Midlands complaining that their Euston service has been slowed down.

 

[yorksrob]

I've not had much hope for reversing Beeching since Johnson was ousted TBH. I'm not aware of any proposals that have been commenced since then.

Obviously this is disappointing news if correct, particularly if Tavistock and Portishead don't go ahead.

We'll see how the current Government progresses with running the day to day railway.

 

[brad465]

I've not had much hope for reversing Beeching since Johnson was ousted TBH. I'm not aware of any proposals that have been commenced since then.

Given Johnson's record on announcing lovely-sounding projects that then get nowhere, I doubt many had much hope of Beeching being reversed when Johnson was PM.

 

[yorksrob]

Given Johnson's record on announcing lovely-sounding projects that then get nowhere, I doubt many had much hope of Beeching being reversed when Johnson was PM.

Well, there are definitely a few underway now, however this was never a Sunak priority from what I could see.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Well I still favour an increase in duty on fuel. HGVs have had an easy ride for too long. That will raise money quickly. I know it will push inflation up a little

 

[contrex]

I've had a feeling for a while that Portishead wouldn't happen.

 

[JonathanH]

I've had a feeling for a while that Portishead wouldn't happen.

How dependant is it on as yet unallocated central government funding, rather than regional money?

 

[Magdalia]

East Anglia is currently considered a water stressed area and so housing development becomes challenging.


However this area cannot keep building unless the water issues are resolved

The latest round of consultation on the Chatteris reservoir is ongoing.

Update – 30 May 2024 - Anglian Water - Fens Reservoir

Second phase public consultation for proposed reservoir in the Fens now open.

fensreservoir.co.uk

Update – 30 May 2024​

Second phase public consultation for proposed reservoir in the Fens now open.

Over the next ten weeks, communities are invited to provide feedback on the latest proposals for a new reservoir, which will supply enough water for around a quarter of a million homes, as well as protecting the environment by enabling a reduction in the amount of water taken from rivers and underground aquifers elsewhere in the region.​

Anglian Water, working in partnership with Cambridge Water, has launched a second phase of public consultation for a proposed reservoir in the Cambridgeshire Fens. Open from the 30 May to 9 August, the water companies are now welcoming feedback on their latest proposals and are set to host a series of in-person events across the region.

now we are talking about power issues too with an unpopular 400KV power line proposed from Norwich to Tilbury.

This is going to be a significant builders v blockers issue, see Prime minister's questions last week:

PM calls on Green MP to support pylons plan for East Anglia

Sir Keir Starmer challenges Adrian Ramsay during PMQs, urging him to "show some leadership".

www.bbc.co.uk

The prime minister has called on a Green MP to support plans for a massive pylon route across East Anglia.

Earlier this month Waveney Valley MP Adrian Ramsay asked for a “pause” in the “controversial” 114-mile (184-km) scheme that could run from Norwich to Tilbury in Essex.

Mr Ramsay said the infrastructure was needed, but other options should be considered, as the pylon proposal had stirred “huge local concern”.

At Prime Minister’s Questions on Wednesday, Sir Keir Starmer said it was “extraordinary” that Mr Ramsay was “opposing vital clean energy infrastructure”.

And the Sunnica solar farm on the Cambridgeshire/Suffolk border has already been given the green light.

Sunnica solar farm on Cambridgeshire-Suffolk border approved

The farm will power 172,000 homes and create 1,500 jobs during construction.

www.bbc.co.uk

A 2,500-acre solar farm has been approved by the secretary of state for energy.
Sunnica's £600m energy farm on the Cambridgeshire-Suffolk border has been given the green light.
A decision on the plans had been delayed several times, including most recently due to the UK general election.
The new energy security secretary, Ed Miliband, said solar power was "crucial to achieving net zero".
Mr Miliband added solar power would provide "an abundant source of cleaner, cheaper energy on the mission towards 2030".
"We will make tough decisions with ambition and urgency – all part of our plan to make the UK a clean energy superpower," he said.

This government is not against infrastructure investment, but it is against having to pay for it.

 

[poffle]

One thing about Euston is that the borough of Camden has been left with a lot of disruption and land sterilisation by the many changes and delays to the Euston project. The local MP for Holborn and St. Pancras will be quite familiar with all this. Although he recently moved home into a neighbouring constituency. (10 Downing Street)

HS2 has always been about relieving capacity congestion on the West Coast Main Line. The politicians came up with the high speed line gimmick as a great way to sell it.

The problem is that if a lot of the Euston tunnelling project needs to be completed before HS2 opens or the project may become much more costly.

 

[Tezza1978]

The thing is, leaving Euston as it is would be an act of monumental sabotage and abject idiocy. Would make zero sense given the scale of works already completed, the huge holes in the ground, the huge financial loss produced if the site isnt let to developers with the inclusion of the link. Plus the long term chaos /lack of capacity that would be at OOC on a perm basis.

Essentially this Times article is probably Tory press mischief making. Haigh has already said she wants Euston done, just cost effectively.

 

[12LDA28C]

Chickens, well great big turkeys , coming home to roost. The need for HS2 is melting away in the face of advanced IT.

IT must be very advanced indeed if it can replace the need for sending freight by rail. Impressive. Can we teleport goods now? And no doubt when you meet friends and family, you do it via Zoom, yes?

 

[Busaholic]

It's a Times article. Remember that this is a Tory newspaper!

Untrue! It came out for Labour in a leader prior to the Election, as it last had in 2005. I find no Tory bias in its reporting, otherwise I wouldn't have been reading it these last fifty years!

 

[Mikey C]

Untrue! It came out for Labour in a leader prior to the Election, as it last had in 2005. I find no Tory bias in its reporting, otherwise I wouldn't have been reading it these last fifty years!

Agreed. The Sunday Times was brutal towards the last government over many of its recent scandals.

And many road schemes are under threat as well. Louise Haigh may say what she likes, but ultimately it's down to Rachel Reeves and the Treasury, juggling the gaps in their number.

 

[Egg Centric]

Seems to me it's like when the RAF fancy making cuts - they just announce they're going to cut the Red Arrows plus XYZ. Press focusses on Red Arrows. A miraculous change of mind occurs. XYZ remains binned.

HS2 ain't going. Probably neither are rebuilding railways schemes that are in progress. But any future ones can say bye bye, and let's face it objectively compared to e.g. nurses they're really not all that, are they?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

This government is not against infrastructure investment, but it is against having to pay for it.

very succinct and to the point.

 

[Robertj21a]

Agreed. The Sunday Times was brutal towards the last government over many of its recent scandals.

And many road schemes are under threat as well. Louise Haigh may say what she likes, but ultimately it's down to Rachel Reeves and the Treasury, juggling the gaps in their number.

The number of *voters* driving cars, lorries etc massively outranks the - comparatively - smaller numbers of train users.
I think we know which way many decisions are likely to go.

 

[mike57]

To be honest there is nothing in that Times article that comes as a surprise. Covid and inflation mainly caused by events outside the UK, coupled with less than stellar management by the previous government has left things in a mess. (and to declare my own view I am a dissillusioned Conservative supporter).

HS2 is a disaster, and I suspect this government will want to bring it some sort of 'in use' but not finished to its originally envisaged state as quickly and cheaply as possible. For a while now I have suspected that it might not reach Euston for years if ever. I actually think loss of the more local reopening schemes is a bigger blow, as I think these schemes are much more relevent to people on a daily basis. However I realise the government will have some hard decisions to make, and so far they seem to be making the right noises.

What I do think it underlines is that talk of NPR and further Liverpool - Machester - Leeds upgrades are just pie in the sky. There is no public funding available, and the chances getting private investment seems to be close to zero.

My view is that coupled with this there needs to be a review of how best to make use of what we have. Rolling stock orders, which I understand do not contribute to public debt need to be sized to avoid the current situation where we have short units running on sections of the network that are at capacity.