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The Times: Labour considering cuts to Restoring Your Railway and dropping HS2 Euston

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JonathanH

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Would it not be attractive for those wanting to get to Heathrow?
How many people need to get to Heathrow or places in West London, relative to other destinations? As there is no plan (or money) to link up the Overground or Central Line, the connections to West London aren't all that great either.

As for Euston it's such an ugly mess that if HS2 didn't run there in the end, all that extra space could be used to make it a first-class terminal?
Not very lucrative though, relative to selling it off to the highest bidder.
 
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snowball

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As far as I know Delta junction construction is ongoing, but how far north of that has been paused I am unsure.
Recent video of active construction works of viaducts at the north corner of the triangle (south of the "Leeds" turnoff) can be seen in post #244 of this the HS2 Birmingham area construction thread:


The northernmost point at which recent major active work has been observed is where the line will go under Streethay road junction, at the north end of the A38 Lichfield bypass, just south of where the Handsacre spur will turn off from the main line leading to phase 2a. See the videos in post #241 in the same thread:


They seem to be intending to complete the retained cutting here.

There does not seem to be much current activity between the two above sites, but two big jobs that have been done on that section are the bridges under the WCML and the Lichfield-Derby line.
 
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Busaholic

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I think the best way to describe The Times is it is "pro establishment" rather than pro any one political party.
It sees itself as ''the paper of record'', which may sound pompous but is a reflection of the position it's held for the majority of the two and a bit centuries it's existed. Now, whether you regard that as ''pro-establishment'' is a matter of opinion. but I'd agree it veers towards that stance on the whole: it certainly couldn't be described as ''anti-establishment'' though. The danger of a proprietor trying to alter this balance is real, but so far it's not happened. The danger could be when Rupert Murdoch's long life ends, particularly if that coincides with a Trump presidency. Now we have a Labour government, at least they should be alert to the possibility, so long as Keir Starmer doesn't go mad and invite Nadine Dorries to join the party as a working peeress!

Is the ENCTS pass system not to be ended?
That costs the government nothing directly. Most passholders rarely or never use them anyway, especially since regular bus services have disappeared from swathes of the country.
 
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The exile

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23 proposals reached SOBC stage and would've been funded for that. As well as the Okehampton (delivered) and Northumberland (delivering) lines, work was advanced on the next 2 to start (the Portishead rail link and the Ivanhoe Line), there are also 10-15 stations on existing routes included as part of this (e.g. Haxby, Wellington, Cullompton, White Rose etc)
But there’s no way £85 million would cover delivery of all of those - even accounting for money that can’t be saved because it’s already been spent.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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That costs the government nothing directly. Most passholders rarely or never use them anyway, especially since regular bus services have disappeared from swathes of the country.
Since the new Government assumed power, have they made any statements about improving the bus service provision?

In the large city areas, I am told that the issuing bodies of ENCTS passes see much take-up in their administered area. In Greater Manchester, for an annual £10.00 surcharge, holders of TfGM issued ENCTS passes can have access to the entire Manchester Metrolink network and rail services that run in the administered TfGM area at certain times at the morning rush-hour Monday to Friday and all day Saturday, Sunday and Bank Holidays.
 

Busaholic

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It costs ~£880m per year.
It's not an astronomical amount but it is hardly nothing.
I did say directly. The government neither issues bus passes nor deals with recompensing the bus companies for their use. How the accounting of the £880m is dealt with I don't know, but I wouldn't think it's on a Chancellor's radar.

In the large city areas, I am told that the issuing bodies of ENCTS passes see much take-up in their administered area. In Greater Manchester, for an annual £10.00 surcharge, holders of TfGM issued ENCTS passes can have access to the entire Manchester Metrolink network and rail services that run in the administered TfGM area.
A bit like the Freedom Pass in London then, but the extra benefits aren't funded by central government.
 

yorksrob

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In what year was that tunnel constructed and was the stated matter of "rot" that was mentioned in the earlier posting note in the run up to the eventual closure.

One sectional tunnel collapse that is well known to me if that of the "Black Harry tunnel" constructed in 1850 that ran from Molyneaux Brow to the Patricroft area in in the 1950s.
A ventilation shaft section supported by heavy baulks of timber collapsed owing to the rotting of those baulks over a long period of time. Two semi-detached houses in the Swinton area that had been built over the shaft area in question collapsed into the cavity, in the night, killing a number of those residents.

Tyler Hill was built in 1838 I think, so very early. I guess a collapse is the nearest a tunnel gets to "rotting away".
 

HSTEd

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I did say directly. The government neither issues bus passes nor deals with recompensing the bus companies for their use. How the accounting of the £880m is dealt with I don't know, but I wouldn't think it's on a Chancellor's radar.
The state issues the bus passes and reimburses the bus operators, which particular department of the state is responsible makes no real difference.

Local government has, for the most part, little by way of actual revenue raising powers and exists primarily as a delivery body for central government policy.
I don't really think trying to draw divisions between local government and central government truly reflects the reality of how government works in the UK.
 

BrianW

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A successful move by the Chancellor; wins on multiple front, including:

- points finger at 'previous administration', as expected

- cancels two major road projects which already had major 'concerns'- landscape, archaeology, 'Green' credentials, ...

- buys time on restoring Your railway- longer term review which may/not report in tiime for Budget on 30 October

- buys time too for review of more major projects- HS2, Euston (PM's constituency), 'the North'- no mentions of these today

- meanwhile Secretary of State concentrates on government's first Bill- 'Public ownership' of Rail

- and Tory leadership candiidates fight like rats in a sack

In passing- where was Sunak today?
 

The exile

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A successful move by the Chancellor; wins on multiple front, including:

- points finger at 'previous administration', as expected

- cancels two major road projects which already had major 'concerns'- landscape, archaeology, 'Green' credentials, ...

- buys time on restoring Your railway- longer term review which may/not report in tiime for Budget on 30 October

- buys time too for review of more major projects- HS2, Euston (PM's constituency), 'the North'- no mentions of these today

- meanwhile Secretary of State concentrates on government's first Bill- 'Public ownership' of Rail

- and Tory leadership candiidates fight like rats in a sack

In passing- where was Sunak today?
How many of the RYR projects will resurface conditional upon the relevant authority accepting xyz extra new homes?
 

Shrop

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The only reason HS2 phase 1 is being finished between Old Oak Common and Birmingham is because it was too embarrassing to pull the plug given the amount already spent on it. I suspect that the Labour Party would have breathed a huge sigh of relief if it had been cancelled completely last October.

The NAO report criticised the fact that no one has really got any view about the rail service that can be run once Phase 1 is built other than Old Oak Common to Curzon Street. Even then, there will still likely be 2tph from Euston to Birmingham via Weedon to continue Coventry having a fast service to London, 2tph on the Chiltern line and 2tph via Northampton, with lots of people from the West Midlands complaining that their Euston service has been slowed down.
You've hit the nail on the head with the word "embarrassing", but this context goes back a lot further. HS2 was planned to benefit Heathrow from the outset, but then right back in 2009, the "Heathrow imperative" was downgraded. However, by then a great deal of planning had already gone into the Chiltern route (as necessitated by running close to Heathrow), and it was too embarrassing to change the route to the far more sensible M1 corridor.

Many of the consultants who undertook feasibility studies for the route choice, were working to a brief which had the Chiltern route already written as the route of choice, which meant they needed to find reasons why the M1 route was not cost effective. As part of this, the justification for running out through West London was put on to Crossrail, but Heathrow was the original reason, and it was the embarrassment of not wanting to be seen to have made the wrong route choice that compounded it all.

The M1 corridor would of course have removed all of this nonsense about whether or not to run into Euston. It's been a terrible couple of decades for rail development in the UK, and now Rachel Reeves appears to be putting the tin lid on HS2 running into Euston, having inherited Rishi Sunak's damaging rail stance and instead of repairing it, she seems to be damaging it yet further.
 

Vinnym

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Can’t believe that she has punished pensioners re winter heating allowance on the same day announcing 22% rise for doctors.
 

JonathanH

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Can’t believe that she has punished pensioners re winter heating allowance on the same day announcing 22% rise for doctors.
It isn't a one off rise of 22% for doctors, but the compounding of different increases. Pensioners have had similar increases when compounded up.

Remember that everyone eventually needs a doctor at some point, particularly in an ageing population.
 

John Luxton

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Really concerned that Tavistock gets the chop. I imagine the vindictive lot will turn the knife here given they were not able to dislodge Geoffrey Cox. Labour has never been a friend of the Railways wrecked them in 48 and now they want to cut the Restoring Railways plans.

Very disappointed but hardly surprised.
 

Ianigsy

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The protected views are regarded as being of National not just local importance. I don't know the view from Primrose Hill, but I do know the view from Parliament Hill. It is spectacular, and I recommend it.

A similar example is the proposed Norwich-Tilbury pylon line, which goes underground through Constable Country to protect views that are regarded as being of National not just local importance. People don't want to go to Flatford Mill to see where Constable painted the Haywain and find that there is a pylon in the background.
Perhaps the answer is to have rather than a tower, an archway in the La Défense style which would frame St Paul’s and also reference the Doric Arch at Euston.
 

GRALISTAIR

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I suspect Labour were going to receive hefty criticism either way in relation to everything going on here, so have taken the approach of getting it over with all at once at the very beginning of the parliament, which is the least worst option. All of these issues were clearly present so any dither and delay would have increased the financial and political cost.
Correct and a good approach in my opinion.
 

geoffk

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I suppose concessionary bus passes are on her radar also, well for Seniors & not travellers with disabilities. Who knows though anything is possible :s
And free prescriptions? Perhaps the qualifying age will be increased, as has happened with the bus pass.
 

Ivor

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And free prescriptions? Perhaps the qualifying age will be increased, as has happened with the bus pass.
Good shout I forgot about that, I qualify being an oldie & I had a face to face with a doctor last week my first in six years, a prescription that for me now would be ‘free’ he suggested I could buy the medication OTC & that helps save the NHS money, I was lost for words, well the words that were in my head I kept there.
 

1D54

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I suppose concessionary bus passes are on her radar also, well for Seniors & not travellers with disabilities. Who knows though anything is possible :s
And although alot was made by Starmer before the GE about getting people on the buses i can definitely see the £2 fares being scrapped which if course will have the opposite effect.
 

Bletchleyite

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And although alot was made by Starmer before the GE about getting people on the buses i can definitely see the £2 fares being scrapped which if course will have the opposite effect.

They'll need increasing at some point even if the concept of a subsidised flat(ish*) fare is retained.

* Paid £1.90 for Bedale to Leeming Bar on Friday, first sub £2 one I've come across.
 

12LDA28C

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Limiting to RA3 makes sense if you don't expect any significant traffic above that. I imagine for the Borders railway having lighterweight structures was quite helpful given the terrain, however in other areas it'd make little different to put thicker beams in.
Charters, engineering and test trains can run under specific conditions (such as going slowly over bridges) to remain within RA3. However if you built Northumberland line to RA3 you'd cause all sorts of issues for freight.

Charter trains have run on the Borders railway and indeed another one is planned for October this year. Locos used were 47s which are RA6 so dispensation must have been gained for those trains to run.
 

jfollows

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And free prescriptions? Perhaps the qualifying age will be increased, as has happened with the bus pass.
The Conservatives proposed it, had a consultation, then dropped it.
Main question was about making free prescriptions the same as pension age immediately or gradually.
I’d hope the latter, not so much because of the ££ but because I did the paperwork thing with the annual fee and now I don’t have to (I’m 62) and I don’t want to do it all again.
But of course “gradually” doesn’t raise immediate money.
 

JamesT

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And although alot was made by Starmer before the GE about getting people on the buses i can definitely see the £2 fares being scrapped which if course will have the opposite effect.
As I understand it, they don’t need to do anything to scrap it. The current cap is defined until the end of the year, they would have to actively do something to extend it further.
 

johncrossley

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a prescription that for me now would be ‘free’ he suggested I could buy the medication OTC & that helps save the NHS money, I was lost for words, well the words that were in my head I kept there.

I'm surprised you were even allowed to get it for free. There was a clampdown a few years back after lots of people were wasting NHS time and money by insisting on prescriptions for paracetamol. Maybe this was just in Scotland where everyone gets free prescriptions.

We already have taxes such as capital gains tax which apply when someone sells their shares and actually gets the money.

I'm not advocating wealth taxes, but an increasing number of people have questioned the generosity of ISAs. Given that the allowance is £20,000 per annum, most people can't afford to save anything like that much per year. That effectively means hardly anyone needs to pay capital gains tax.
 
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1D54

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As I understand it, they don’t need to do anything to scrap it. The current cap is defined until the end of the year, they would have to actively do something to extend it further.
Yep, poorly worded by me but it must be costing a good amount of money so it has to be doubtful it will be extended, especially as much of the money is going in to the pockets of foreign owned companies.
 
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