The Times: Labour considering cuts to Restoring Your Railway and dropping HS2 Euston

[birchesgreen]

I'm not sure that the Tories can afford to be so complacent about that in the future. Is there much evidence that the upcoming cohort of 'new old people' are going to have the same prejudices as (many of, but far from all - I'm one) today's old people?

Yes the conveyor belt of people becoming Tory as they get older has largely ground to a halt.

 

[Mikey C]

The Welsh Government would much rather Swansea was electrified before North Wales. The business case is much better and the £1bn promised for North Wales electrification was unlikely to be enough.

I hasten to add that I never saw the Holyhead electrification scheme as being anything other then a back of a fag packet headline, but some people in North Wales would suggest that the Welsh Government has a South Wales bias...

From a wider perspective, does the North Wales line have more strategic use than extending the wires to Swansea?

 

[aar0]

'The demographics' are delivering too few babies (future taxpayers) to look after we who have 'never had it so good'.

As someone who’s recently had their first child (and put off trying for several years until I was earning somewhat decent money) there is very little help forthcoming despite complaints from the last gov that my generation weren’t having kids!

 

[Energy]

but some people in North Wales would suggest that the Welsh Government has a South Wales bias...

Yes, you can see the promise from the political angle.

From a wider perspective, does the North Wales line have more strategic use than extending the wires to Swansea?

There's some merit for electrification to Chester but beyond that electrifying North Wales would only help the North Wales line. There are other lines (Snow Hill, Bristol both ways, Swansea, Oxford, Exeter...) which make more sense to do first. While it would release some rolling stock (197, 805) other lines would release larger quantities of good stock at a shorter electrification length (Snow Hill).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I hasten to add that I never saw the Holyhead electrification scheme as being anything other then a back of a fag packet headline, but some people in North Wales would suggest that the Welsh Government has a South Wales bias...

From a wider perspective, does the North Wales line have more strategic use than extending the wires to Swansea?

I should imagine that the use of fag packets on which to make new change ideas has greatly diminished over recent years.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

that is my interpretation of the message. IMO a lot of money has been wasted on studies for lines that weren't going to get built. The reversing Beeching angle was simply to play to the Tory base.

Keeps the consultants busy though although you had to bid to even get 50-100k to undertake a half baked feasibility study. What really needs to stopping is the likes of Portishead where the local authority has already expended over 30m and has nothing to show for it. The whole systems needs overhauling and the wider changes proposed to planning may help alleviate a lot of these studies as well as the time and cost that goes with them.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Keeps the consultants busy though although you had to bid to even get 50-100k to undertake a half baked feasibility study. What really needs to stopping is the likes of Portishead where the local authority has already expended over 30m and has nothing to show for it. The whole systems needs overhauling and the wider changes proposed to planning may help alleviate a lot of these studies as well as the time and cost that goes with them.

Is the plan to greatly reduce the cost of such consultants in future years as part of Governmental savings?

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Is the plan to greatly reduce the cost of such consultants in future years as part of Governmental savings?

In the supporting document from HM Treasury there targeting £500m across all spending departments.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

From a wider perspective, does the North Wales line have more strategic use than extending the wires to Swansea?

Not sure what 'strategic' means in this context, but seems unlikely that the North Wales line would have a better case for electrification. Cardiff to Swansea goes through much more urban area and generally sees higher frequencies, so you'd expect that £ for £ spent on electrification would give a much greater reduction in pollution where more people live. It probably has more scope for further frequency improvements in the future too. On the other hand, West of Llandudno Junction has barely an hourly-ish service much of the day, so it's not like electrification there is going to make that much difference. I could see more case for electrification of that route if it was just, Crewe to Llandudno, and rely on bi-modes for the rest of the line to Holyhead.

I'd guess the main argument for prioritising the North Wales line is the political one - that it shows more stuff being done in the North.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Lousie Haigh has commissioned Transport infrastructure review which was referenced in Reeves speech yesterday.

The financial inheritance this government has received is extremely challenging. The previous administration has left a £22 billion public spending gap this year alone – £2.9 billion of which is unfunded transport commitments. Communities up and down the country have been given hope for new transport infrastructure, with no plans or funds to deliver them. This government will not make that mistake.

This of course includes road schemes and Stonehenge alone is 1.7B so maybe less worrisome than the number suggest for rail. Although it then goes onto say

In recent weeks, the gap between promised schemes and the money available to deliver them has been made clear to me. There has been a lack of openness with the public about the status of schemes – some of which were cancelled or paused by the previous government, without proper communication to the public.

This could imply bad news yet to emerge on some schemes thought to be in play.

Says it will be done quickly with help of external advisers (hang on Reeves said they need to cut consultants spend!). This reeks of the Hendy review in 2015!

 

[ac6000cw]

My take on what the Labour party and government have said and done so far re. railways is that they intend to reduce the cost to the taxpayer by efficiency savings (e.g. nationalising the TOCs and then merging at least the TOC 'back office' functions) and I suspect increasing fares revenue during the process of 'simplifying' them. Together with the on-going squeeze on NR costs its starting to feel like a version of cash-strapped BR is where the railway is heading (but with more youthful rolling stock and somewhat improved stations, for the most part).

 

[Purple Train]

As stated previously, Tavistock already has a bus service every 20 mins to Plymouth, and it passes Derriford Hospital and Marjon University, which no train will ever do!

Of course if private sector developers of housing (or more accurately their purchasers) in and around attractive Tavistock were to stump up the considerable sums for RYR via Section 106 or Community Infrastructure Levy (or their successors) perhaps their viability or value for Money may be worthy of review. Alternatively designation of Tavistock as a New Town with suitable provision of much-needed social housing (perhaps as overspill for circumscribed Plymouth) might prompt reconsideration.

The number 1 bus is very well-used and convenient, albeit unreliable. Any rail service would be hourly at best and inconvenient for a not insignificant proportion of the town, assuming the plans remain to put the station a little way outside it.

The idea of designating Tavistock as a New Town raised a smile - not because it's a bad idea per se, but a very old stannary town with a rather large array of historic buildings for a town of its size doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would find such a prospect agreeable. But there are thatched cottages in Milton Keynes, after all...

I remain optimistic that this government will place greater emphasis on rail - so far, my hopes haven't been entirely dashed, which is a reasonably good sign.

 

[uglymonkey]

I can't see them ever doing Tavistock (4 miles?) Never mind Portishead.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Not a fan of the Labour Government so far, I have to say. Not giving a good impression to start with. Railways would be part of UK regeneration, yet the hatchet falls on them straight away.

By chance, this just appeared on my timeline.

Italy’s vintage trains are a solution to the county’s mass tourism hotspots

Italy’s ‘Timeless Tracks’ project takes tourists to forgotten parts, offering an alternative to the fast-paced mjaor cities concerned by overtourism – Giulia Segreti finds out more

www.independent.co.uk

 

[BrianW]

The number 1 bus is very well-used and convenient, albeit unreliable. Any rail service would be hourly at best and inconvenient for a not insignificant proportion of the town, assuming the plans remain to put the station a little way outside it.

The idea of designating Tavistock as a New Town raised a smile - not because it's a bad idea per se, but a very old stannary town with a rather large array of historic buildings for a town of its size doesn't strike me as the kind of place that would find such a prospect agreeable. But there are thatched cottages in Milton Keynes, after all...

I remain optimistic that this government will place greater emphasis on rail - so far, my hopes haven't been entirely dashed, which is a reasonably good sign.

Maybe if Okehampton Parkway gets built it could be a focus for Okehampton New Town

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

My take on what the Labour party and government have said and done so far re. railways is that they intend to reduce the cost to the taxpayer by efficiency savings (e.g. nationalising the TOCs and then merging at least the TOC 'back office' functions) and I suspect increasing fares revenue during the process of 'simplifying' them. Together with the on-going squeeze on NR costs its starting to feel like a version of cash-strapped BR is where the railway is heading (but with more youthful rolling stock and somewhat improved stations, for the most part).

There needs to be a reopener of NR CP7 settlement otherwise all the cuts will fall on services ie the right balance needs to be struck for the greater good of the industries long term future.

 

[1D54]

Disappointment as reopening of railway line halted​

Image caption,The Ivanhoe Line was among projects under the now scrapped Restoring Your Railway programmeArticle information

• Author,Isaac Ashe
• Role,BBC News, East Midlands
• 30 July 2024, 09:06 BST

The restoration of a passenger rail link through the Midlands has been stopped in its tracks.
A business case for reopening the Ivanhoe Line rail link from Burton-upon-Trent to Leicester had been submitted before the election, with campaigners hopeful that work could begin in 2024.
But on Monday, Chancellor Rachel Reeves said the Treasury needed to find £5.5bn of savings in 2024 and a further £8.1bn in 2025.
Speaking in the House of Commons, the Chancellor said that the previous government's entire Restoring Your Railway programme would be scrapped, saving £85m.
She added individual schemes could be assessed by Transport Secretary Louise Haigh - but for now, the Ivanhoe Line and other projects yet to progress to their building stages had been halted.
The Ivanhoe line was one of the branch lines that closed as part of the infamous Beeching Cuts of the 1960s.

'Very disappointing'​

Campaigners previously said that if backed by the government, the restoration project would be split into three phases.
The first, backed by Network Rail, would connect Coalville to Derby via stops at Ashby, Castle Gresley and Burton.
The eventual aim would be to link Coalville to a new station in south Leicester, and then finally on to the Midland Main Line.
Douglas McClay, from Campaign to Reopen the Ivanhoe Line group (CRIL), told the BBC on Tuesday that the news was "very disappointing".
"The project was just on the verge of being funded to the next stage when the election was called and the case that was put forward by Network Rail and ourselves was considered to be very strong," he said.
He said the review of transport projects by Ms Haigh was an avenue the campaign would "explore", and that the Ivanhoe Line would "produce exceptional benefit in an area that has received very little government funding".
In total, the government’s halting of what it called “unaffordable road and railway schemes” will save it a projected £785m.

 

[Topological]

Quote from the IFS on the BBC: 'We'll have to increase taxes', says Reeves

This includes £6.4bn on the asylum system, including the Rwanda deportation scheme, a number that IFS director Paul Johnson called "huge".

However, he added "half of [the] spending 'hole' is public pay over which government made a choice and where pressures were known".

Labour has already confirmed some tax rises and the chancellor has previously alluded to "difficult decisions" needing to be made.

 

[Tezza1978]

This could imply bad news yet to emerge on some schemes thought to be in play.

Says it will be done quickly with help of external advisers (hang on Reeves said they need to cut consultants spend!). This reeks of the Hendy review in 2015!

Looks like all individual rail schemes will be tested for value for money/potential for growth. If Hendy/other rail industry people are involved rather than just Treasury mandarins then could be positive for some of these. Capex spending /borrowing still allows the fiscal "rules" to be kept to....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Is the plan to greatly reduce the cost of such consultants in future years as part of Governmental savings?

In the supporting document from HM Treasury there targeting £500m across all spending departments.

My best guess is yes- consultant usage will be reduced.

 

[12LDA28C]

Covid did mess a lot up.

However, the debate about borrowing for investment is a big one. Nominally, I would not be in favour as a smaller state person, but I can see that there is sense in recessions to use borrowing for targetted investment. Many of the projects cancelled yesterday would have survived in such a world.

The biggest problem with means testing is the boundaries, there are some very big drops that get created as a result.

Did it? Or was it the Government's response to it that 'messed a lot up'?

 

[Busaholic]

Is the plan to greatly reduce the cost of such consultants in future years as part of Governmental savings?

They're going out to consultation on that.

 

[brad465]

They're going out to consultation on that.

"Consultancy, if not you're part of the solution, there's a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem."

 

[BrianW]

Is the plan to greatly reduce the cost of such consultants in future years as part of Governmental savings?

The Chancellor's statement, as recorded in Hansard, includes:

.... measures to stop all non-essential spending on consultancy

and in response to a question form Jim Shannon MP:

We have committed ourselves to back-office efficiency savings of 2% in all Government Departments, and a reining in of consultancy and Government communications spending. Those things got out of hand under the last Government, and we will rein them in.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

"Consultancy, if not you're part of the solution, there's a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem."

You beat me to it! I was just going to post that.

The Chancellor's statement, as recorded in Hansard, includes:

.... measures to stop all non-essential spending on consultancy

and in response to a question form Jim Shannon MP:

We have committed ourselves to back-office efficiency savings of 2% in all Government Departments, and a reining in of consultancy and Government communications spending. Those things got out of hand under the last Government, and we will rein them in.

Well I am glad. The problem has been recognized and they are going to try and do something about it. (I am a traditional conservative voter btw) but Labour deserve a chance and this is good.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Well I am glad. The problem has been recognized and they are going to try and do something about it. (I am a traditional conservative voter btw) but Labour deserve a chance and this is good.

Agreed. I think what impresses me about this is that the waste of money on too many consultants is not a problem that is widely recognised amongst the public or that has attracted a lot of political attention: It's more like, the kind of thing you notice if you're paying lots of geeky attention to how individual projects are progressing. (Hence why so many people on railforums have noticed it: Lots of us pay close attention to what's happening with re-openings etc.) So the fact that Labour have so quickly picked up on it suggests to me that they have done their research and are thinking seriously about how to make Government more efficient: They're not just chasing populist headlines.

 

[Xavi]

A distinction should be drawn between traditional construction consultants and management consultants. One offers value-for-money, the other generates fantasy ideas and is paid a fortune.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

A distinction should be drawn between traditional construction consultants and management consultants. One offers value-for-money, the other generates fantasy ideas and is paid a fortune.

Fair enough. On railways though, with all the staff they have at the DfT I am surprised they still need consultants.

 

[deltic]

Fair enough. On railways though, with all the staff they have at the DfT I am surprised they still need consultants.

Because in most cases the staff are generalists with no operational knowledge.

 

[Magdalia]

"Consultancy, if not you're part of the solution, there's a lot of money to be made in prolonging the problem."

I've not heard that one, and I like it.

In my day we used to say that consultants borrowed your watch to tell you the time.