The two strike fail rule

[SPADTrap]

I may be thick for asking and I do apologise but can somebody tell me what "Debunked" means!!???? lol


also would it be possible for someone to find me a safety critical role anywhere that doesn't require some form of psychometric testing or assessments!!???........quite simply so I can avoid it like the plague!

Are you not already a trainee driver? Or is that said in jest? lol

 

[red2005]

yes definitely a list i'd like to see
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you not already a trainee driver? Or is that said in jest? lol

lol definitely jest....just a word I very rarely hear lol

 

[ComUtoR]

I'm sorry, but most of your "debunks" are themselves easily debunked. Have you sat the tests yourself or are you inferring these points based on what you've read so far?

Thanks for posting but to put your fears to rest. I was posting what was said throughout the thread because red2005 had asked...

has anyone on this thread actually found out why this is supposed to be unfair yet!!?????? lol

I also stated that they had already been debunked but thanks for adding your additional perspective.

Have I sat the tests ? I'm not sure that it matters either way. I haven't posted in favor of either side of the debate.

I mentioned the long term cost way back on page 5 and the investment that a TOC puts in to each Driver. When your sitting there in your whistle all sweaty and nervous you don't think abut the long term implications. At what point does the TOC make a decision on a financial basis. Assessment> interview> rules training> manual handling> ? If the assessment is showing suitability and aptitude for training etc would it be "fair" to limit chances based on cost and potential costs ?

As I've mentioned before I have sat there interviewing people. I Had my tick sheet in front of me and asked all the structured questions but some candidates just couldn't respond in the way that was required regardless of how much I prompted. How many times should you sit a standard job interview let alone one for a safety critical role ?

You think its fair when you pass and unfair if you fail. Its very emotive.

 

[red2005]

Thanks for posting but to put your fears to rest. I was posting what was said throughout the thread because red2005 had asked...



I also stated that they had already been debunked but thanks for adding your additional perspective.

Have I sat the tests ? I'm not sure that it matters either way. I haven't posted in favor of either side of the debate.

I mentioned the long term cost way back on page 5 and the investment that a TOC puts in to each Driver. When your sitting there in your whistle all sweaty and nervous you don't think abut the long term implications. At what point does the TOC make a decision on a financial basis. Assessment> interview> rules training> manual handling> ? If the assessment is showing suitability and aptitude for training etc would it be "fair" to limit chances based on cost and potential costs ?

As I've mentioned before I have sat there interviewing people. I Had my tick sheet in front of me and asked all the structured questions but some candidates just couldn't respond in the way that was required regardless of how much I prompted. How many times should you sit a standard job interview let alone one for a safety critical role ?

You think its fair when you pass and unfair if you fail. Its very emotive.

yes but so is life!....we all think things are unfair when they happen to us....not so much when it happens to others......but all in all that does not make the system unfair!

the thing about "systems" is that they generally have to cater for everyone.....not just individuals.....else that would truly be unfair and somewhat discriminatory!.........I think that is where a few on this thread are becoming lost....this may be a "bugger" it may be " a shame" it may be a "b**ch".........but it certainly is not unfair....there is a big difference!

 

[danchoochoo]

I think the tests are fair because everyone does them.

 

[387star]

What about people who have passed all assessments like me but no closer to a driving job? I passed mine first time around but I do not feel resentful I haven't got on a training course rather I look forward to improving my interview technique for the managers

Currently applying internally passed online tests and completed a telephone interview

However I wonder whether all applications should be standardised with people who pass assessments being placed on a national talent pool?

I wonder what percentage pass all assessments and never get a driving job possibly quite high?

 

[SPADTrap]

What about people who have passed all assessments like me but no closer to a driving job? I passed mine first time around but I do not feel resentful I haven't got on a training course rather I look forward to improving my interview technique for the managers

Currently applying internally passed online tests and completed a telephone interview

However I wonder whether all applications should be standardised with people who pass assessments being placed on a national talent pool?

I wonder what percentage pass all assessments and never get a driving job possibly quite high?

Out of interest why haven't you got a course? Did your TOC pull it?

 

[red2005]

What about people who have passed all assessments like me but no closer to a driving job? I passed mine first time around but I do not feel resentful I haven't got on a training course rather I look forward to improving my interview technique for the managers

Currently applying internally passed online tests and completed a telephone interview

However I wonder whether all applications should be standardised with people who pass assessments being placed on a national talent pool?

I wonder what percentage pass all assessments and never get a driving job possibly quite high?

so many things have gotta be in place to get one mate.....especially luck!.......I passed mine first time in 2007 privately with DB and thought I was on the home straight!......low and behold 7 years pass with 3 further assessment passes (all different versions of) and I finally get one!

I had everything from qualified driver redundancies from freight freezing trainee recruitment nationwide to failing at paper sift stages to failing final manager interviews get in my way!

persevere....stick with it and you will get there!

when you say a national talent pool do you mean people who pass can then get put forward for any driving jobs across the country no matter where they live?

 

[387star]

Yeah didn't pass managers interview

National pool based on your location

Did your answers for the structured interview change at all with the retakes and how did it compare to the MMI?

 

[red2005]

Yeah didn't pass managers interview

National pool based on your location

Did your answers for the structured interview change at all with the retakes and how did it compare to the MMI?

well the good thing is that is an area that can always be improved! failing one ain't as bad as it seems as you know what to put right the next time!

no my answers didn't change at all!...I am quite lucky because I have an emergency services and a HGV backround so I had quite a few answers/examples that I can give!......not saying it was easy though far from it lol.

I think the only struggle with that would be is despite these tests being national etc the likes of TPE and Northern would still avoid certain people if they don't have a certain pass mark as neither of those accept borderline passes so by their "logic" they would probably avoid the poor soul that's been sat in the pool 3 years with a borderline pass and go straight to the applicant with the higher pass mark who's been there 2 minutes lol.

that is the ONLY real part of the testing I can see as a tad "unfair" because in the world I was brought up in " a pass is a pass" however like I say if a company has a standard and you don't meet it.......well there you go!........I suppose their excuse is a pass just means you have met the minimum standard and not much else!......brutal lol

 

[afc]

I passed the assesment day with Southern in February of this year, and was given a date at the end of the day for a situational judgement interview??

I arrived at Selhurst for my interview, confident that I had brushed up on my technique and also the answers I had given on the assesment today - only to be told that I was in fact now having my line manager interview!!

Now, I realise you have to be adaptable and suseptable to change, but I thought this was a bit harsh. I had no time to prepare any questions or my examples for inevitable questions.

I thought my interview went well, and I seemed to get a rapport going with my interviewees, and left after an 1hr 15mins feeling quite confident.

I phoned a week later to get some feedback, to be told that I was unsucessful, the reason given was that some of my answers were inconsistent with their questioning strategy?? same question asked a different way.... what gets me is, I told the truth all the way through :roll:

I asked why I had been thrown in to a line managers interview, when I was expecting the SJI and was told that it was possibly an admin error, but none the less you're still unsucessful

I'm unsure now as to where I am when I next apply for a trainee drivers job with my pass mark, as I haven't had this SJI . I have also passed the extra bit that Southern add on for fault finding etc but it means nothing to other TOCs.