The viability of social distancing, and confusion over whether it should be 1m or 2m

[Yew]

As an extreme example of that impression, i saw someone gloating on social media earlier that his friends in Leicester wouldn't be able to "celebrate" the end of the pandemic in the pub on Saturday like everyone else. The government / parts of the media have given the impression its over...

I mean, by their criteria of stopping the NHS being overwhelmed, it should have been over a long time ago..

 

[CaptainHaddock]

One of the big problems I think we have at the moment comes down to communication and peoples expectations of how long this will go on for. Back in March there was no clear messaging that this was a year or more and so people thought that after a short period of heavy restrictions things would largely be back to normal.

If you look round this forum, and others, some people seem to have the impression that Social Distancing will come to an end by the Autumn and with that we will be able to forget about endless queues, masks and perspex everywhere.

The sad reality, and I wish those in power were more honest about this and had been since the get-go, is that we are in this for the long haul. There is almost no possibility of restrictions not being in place well into next year and that is without the potential for a second wave in the winter. At least a Socially Distant Christmas gives you an excuse to avoid any family you don't like.

Oh dear, we appear to have a lockdown enthusiast on the thread.

I'd be interested to know how you developed your ability to see into the future and also how you came to such a gloomy conclusion. There really is no evidence to support your claims that any form of restriction will last much beyond the end of summer; people simply won't stand for it now the pandemic is as good as over and death rates are falling so consistently.

It's obvious that the virus does not spread out of doors and that the only two areas where infections are still a concern are care homes and food processing factories. The recent outbreaks in the latter seem to be under control, be that in the form of short term localised lockdowns or the track and trace systems now in place.

By all means stay locked up in your own home if you're terrified but please don't spread your fear and negativity on more rational forums like this one!

 

[Class 33]

Come 4th July and the reduction of social distancing to "1m+", I don't think it's actually going to make too much difference really. The official guidance is still remain 2 metres away from others if possible, if not then 1 metre.

When passing people in the street or wherever, I have been sticking to 2 metres so far. But come 4th July I will be sticking to 1 metre instead. But I think a lot of people will still stick to 2 metres.

On TV like the news and studio based programmes like Good Morning Britain and The One Show, I bet we'll still see the hosts, news reporters and the people they're talking to being 2 metres apart.

In supermarkets/shops, train stations, etc where they've got all these "Stay 2 metres apart" notices and floor markings, I reacon they'll still keep all those 2 metre notices and markings!

Also businesses such as hairdressers/barbers, beauty salons, and gyms have been preparing for re-opening by having to have expensive work down to their properties to accommodate the 2 metre social distancing guidance. So they'll stick to that. I can't see them having to amend all their work to accommodate 1 metre social distancing instead.

Nope I don't think it's going to make too much difference really. The change we really need is to get social distancing scrapped altogether as soon as possible.

 

[Huntergreed]

One of the big problems I think we have at the moment comes down to communication and peoples expectations of how long this will go on for. Back in March there was no clear messaging that this was a year or more and so people thought that after a short period of heavy restrictions things would largely be back to normal.

If you look round this forum, and others, some people seem to have the impression that Social Distancing will come to an end by the Autumn and with that we will be able to forget about endless queues, masks and perspex everywhere.

The sad reality, and I wish those in power were more honest about this and had been since the get-go, is that we are in this for the long haul. There is almost no possibility of restrictions not being in place well into next year and that is without the potential for a second wave in the winter. At least a Socially Distant Christmas gives you an excuse to avoid any family you don't like.

This will destroy our economy for good if we insist on continuing with this approach. You’re correct that we weren’t given a rough estimate of how long lockdown would be needed for, but I believe that if people were initially told that the lockdown would last for as long as it already has, and it has no end in sight yet, they wouldn’t have complied quite as readily. I had no idea when the lockdown began that:

3.5 months later in Scotland we’re STILL not allowed further than 5 miles from our home (changes Friday)

3.5 months later in Scotland we STILL have all pubs, hospitality and tourism closed.

3.5 months later in Scotland, we’re STILL not allowed to use public transport unless we’re a “key worker”.

I had no idea that when I walked out of the doors of my university on March 15th, I wouldn’t be returning to it in the year 2020 (we got told yesterday everything is going to be online until Christmas).

I didn’t think schools would be shut for as long as they have been, nor did I think that when they reopened they would require such over the top, restrictive measures which will be completely impractical and were obviously written by people with no experience in the setting.

If I was told all of this in that speech on March 23rd, I wouldn’t have been nearly as happy to comply. It is looking genuinely like 2 of the best years of my life (1st and 2nd year of university) will be completely ruined by these restrictive measures and I’ll never be able to get these back. If the government put out a vote and gave me a choice between “risk catching the virus and go back to normal” and “continue with the current approach”, I, and I think many, many others, would vote for the former and would do anything just to get back to normal life.

 

[Smidster]

Oh dear, we appear to have a lockdown enthusiast on the thread.

I'd be interested to know how you developed your ability to see into the future and also how you came to such a gloomy conclusion. There really is no evidence to support your claims that any form of restriction will last much beyond the end of summer; people simply won't stand for it now the pandemic is as good as over and death rates are falling so consistently.

It's obvious that the virus does not spread out of doors and that the only two areas where infections are still a concern are care homes and food processing factories. The recent outbreaks in the latter seem to be under control, be that in the form of short term localised lockdowns or the track and trace systems now in place.

By all means stay locked up in your own home if you're terrified but please don't spread your fear and negativity on more rational forums like this one!

I am absolutely not a lockdown enthusiast at all - I personally think that the current risk is really low and current restrictions are disproportionate to our current infection rates (with the potential exception of making sure we protect the most vulnerable) I am also not at all "scared" of the disease - As I say the risk is very low

But look at the information that is currently available from the different National Governments or key advisors - What have they said that gives you hope that this will all be over in 6 / 10 weeks? Chris Whitty has said SD is going to be around for a long time (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ancing-until-at-least-end-of-year-says-whitty) and Phase 4 (the final phase) of the Scottish plan still talks about distancing until a vaccine or therapeutics are found and we have been advised that working at home until next year is likely.

Believe me I will be taking advantage of the small bits of liberty we are going to get but really don't see much evidence that things will change dramatically for a long time after Saturday.

 

[scotrail158713]

I didn’t think schools would be shut for as long as they have been, nor did I think that when they reopened they would require such over the top, restrictive measures which will be completely impractical and were obviously written by people with no experience in the setting.

To be fair the Scottish government are trying to avoid this if possible

 

[Huntergreed]

To be fair the Scottish government are trying to avoid this if possible

The Scottish government are getting them back full time, but still considering mandating/encouraging PPE, keeping children in one classroom and using a “bubble” system and staggering break/lunch times (at least that is my local authorities interpretation of the guidance)

 

[Class 33]

Come 4th July and the reduction of social distancing to "1m+", I don't think it's actually going to make too much difference really. The official guidance is still remain 2 metres away from others if possible, if not then 1 metre.

When passing people in the street or wherever, I have been sticking to 2 metres so far. But come 4th July I will be sticking to 1 metre instead. But I think a lot of people will still stick to 2 metres.

On TV like the news and studio based programmes like Good Morning Britain and The One Show, I bet we'll still see the hosts, news reporters and the people they're talking to being 2 metres apart.

In supermarkets/shops, train stations, etc where they've got all these "Stay 2 metres apart" notices and floor markings, I reacon they'll still keep all those 2 metre notices and markings!

Also businesses such as hairdressers/barbers, beauty salons, and gyms have been preparing for re-opening by having to have expensive work down to their properties to accommodate the 2 metre social distancing guidance. So they'll stick to that. I can't see them having to amend all their work to accommodate 1 metre social distancing instead.

Nope I don't think it's going to make too much difference really. The change we really need is to get social distancing scrapped altogether as soon as possible.

See what I mean. There's been hardly any difference! All the "Stay 2 metres apart" notices and floor markings still present in the supermarkets, shops, train stations, etc, etc. On the TV news and studio based programmes, everyone is still 2 metres apart! It should have been reduced to a straightforward 1 metre for real progress of easing social distancing, before hopefully being scrapped fully by 1st September providing new cases of Coronavirus and deaths are still consistently declining.

 

[Bletchleyite]

See what I mean. There's been hardly any difference! All the "Stay 2 metres apart" notices and floor markings still present in the supermarkets, shops, train stations, etc, etc. On the TV news and studio based programmes, everyone is still 2 metres apart! It should have been reduced to a straightforward 1 metre for real progress of easing social distancing, before hopefully being scrapped fully by 1st September providing new cases of Coronavirus and deaths are still consistently declining.

The problem with 1m is that it just isn't enough. 1m is a normal distance between people in most settings, and people catch stuff at that distance all the time.

 

[Huntergreed]

The problem with 1m is that it just isn't enough. 1m is a normal distance between people in most settings, and people catch stuff at that distance all the time.

May I ask, in that case, how the many countries who have employed 1m without mitigation as their social distancing guideline are coping without a significant increase in transmission and a second lockdown?

 

[Bletchleyite]

May I ask, in that case, how the many countries who have employed 1m without mitigation as their social distancing guideline are coping without a significant increase in transmission and a second lockdown?

Possibly because of other mitigations, e.g. masks?

 

[westv]

I've found recently on my health since having to wear a face mask for travel and work is that I seem to develop frequent headaches - the annoying sort of ones you would associate with a hangover but I haven't drank alcohol in at least 2 months...maybe not related to the face mask but it does seem coincidental timing

In fact just this morning I got off the train and felt an immediate sense of nausea coming on, I felt like I was going to just collapse to the floor and pass out but luckily there was a nearby bench I managed to stagger to and sit down which brought me back round a bit after 15 minutes, although I then had a splitting headache for most of the day!

Reduction in oxygen??

 

[DB]

Possibly because of other mitigations, e.g. masks?

The evidence for masks making a difference is as weak and unproven as the evidence for 2m making a difference.

 

[DB]

Reduction in oxygen??

Or just finding the situation very stressful? That's sufficient to induce headaches in many people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reduction in oxygen??

More likely anxiety/claustrophobia, i.e. panicking due to feeling it is happening as it's physically slightly harder to breathe.

 

[Enthusiast]

More likely anxiety/claustrophobia, i.e. panicking due to feeling it is happening as it's physically slightly harder to breathe.

In which case he can take advantage of an exemption.

 

[Want2BDriver]

Unfortunately even what the experts seems to change almost daily, very fluid situation to keep up with!

 

[Scrotnig]

In which case he can take advantage of an exemption.

The trouble is, the more prevelant mask wearing becomes, the harder it will be for exempt people to even go out at all. Having to endlessly explain your exemption isn’t fun, nor is dealing with abuse from simple people who can’t or won’t understand.

 

[Huntergreed]

A very stern statement from Nicola Sturgeon today in her briefing that “we should not expect physical distancing to disappear anytime in the next few months”, she consistently said that “physical distancing must stay with us until we mitigate the risks through a vaccine” and that her approach would remain “cautious and stay focused on getting the virus as close to elimination as possible”.

Sounds like social distancing is, at least for a while, here to stay in Scotland

 

[MikeWM]

A very stern statement from Nicola Sturgeon today in her briefing that “we should not expect physical distancing to disappear anytime in the next few months”, she consistently said that “physical distancing must stay with us until we mitigate the risks through a vaccine” and that her approach would remain “cautious and stay focused on getting the virus as close to elimination as possible”.

Sounds like social distancing is, at least for a while, here to stay in Scotland

A cynic would have to wonder how much this is about a virus at all anymore, and how much is about politicians revelling in having found a bit of power over how people live their lives. Or worse.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

A very stern statement from Nicola Sturgeon today in her briefing that “we should not expect physical distancing to disappear anytime in the next few months”, she consistently said that “physical distancing must stay with us until we mitigate the risks through a vaccine” and that her approach would remain “cautious and stay focused on getting the virus as close to elimination as possible”.

Sounds like social distancing is, at least for a while, here to stay in Scotland

I wonder how many potential visitors have been put off holidaying in Scotland this summer by Nanny Sturgeon's increasingly hysterical hyperbole? Let's hope Scotland's voters bear this in mind when they have the chance to vote her out next May.

 

[HSTEd]

I wonder how many potential visitors have been put off holidaying in Scotland this summer by Nanny Sturgeon's increasingly hysterical hyperbole? Let's hope Scotland's voters bear this in mind when they have the chance to vote her out next May.

Doubtful, her narrative is designed to stir up atavistic fear and hatred of the English, which is already learning to other the English given Scotland's tuition fee policy essentially ensures no Scots go to university outside of Scotland.
That's why she wants to install border posts, she wants Scottish people to think English people are dirty and dangerous.

 

[MikeWM]

I wonder how many potential visitors have been put off holidaying in Scotland this summer by Nanny Sturgeon's increasingly hysterical hyperbole? Let's hope Scotland's voters bear this in mind when they have the chance to vote her out next May.

I overheard a conversation between two groups of older ladies who were having a coffee at outside tables while I was waiting for a bacon roll for lunch (from somewhere that was cash only

They had wanted to visit their families in Scotland and were extremely unhappy that they hadn't been allowed to. What they said about Sturgeon is mostly unprintable! Gave me a good grin though.

 

[Bikeman78]

A very stern statement from Nicola Sturgeon today in her briefing that “we should not expect physical distancing to disappear anytime in the next few months”, she consistently said that “physical distancing must stay with us until we mitigate the risks through a vaccine” and that her approach would remain “cautious and stay focused on getting the virus as close to elimination as possible”.

Sounds like social distancing is, at least for a while, here to stay in Scotland

Two questions spring to mind. How long will it be before we know if a vaccine is possible or not? What will she do if it becomes clear that a vaccine will never come?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Two questions spring to mind. How long will it be before we know if a vaccine is possible or not?

A few months I think.

What will she do if it becomes clear that a vaccine will never come?

Good question. Elimination and border quarantine is an option (allowing travel without quarantine from other countries that had eliminated it, and possibly with testing in some form) but she'd have to get England to agree. However much bleating there may be about it, a hard border between England and Scotland isn't really a viable step.

 

[Bikeman78]

A few months I think.



Good question. Elimination and border quarantine is an option (allowing travel without quarantine from other countries that had eliminated it, and possibly with testing in some form) but she'd have to get England to agree. However much bleating there may be about it, a hard border between England and Scotland isn't really a viable step.

Agreed. There are around 25 roads across the border that would have to be manned around the clock for a start.

 

[Huntergreed]

Agreed. There are around 25 roads across the border that would have to be manned around the clock for a start.

Indeed, and 3 rail routes.

We simply don't have the staff to do this.

 

[sheff1]

I wonder how many potential visitors have been put off holidaying in Scotland this summer by Nanny Sturgeon's increasingly hysterical hyperbole? Let's hope Scotland's voters bear this in mind when they have the chance to vote her out next May.

I know at least 10 (myself included). If Scotland doesn't want us, then fine ... plenty of other places which do.

 

[Huntergreed]

I know at least 10 (myself included). If Scotland doesn't want us, then fine ... plenty of other places which do.

Make that 15!

Sadly I do think that this may cause a split between others, which will still give SNP the overall majority due to the hardcore nationalists that support it. Whether this actually happens or not however remains to be seen.

 

[philosopher]

I wonder how many potential visitors have been put off holidaying in Scotland this summer by Nanny Sturgeon's increasingly hysterical hyperbole? Let's hope Scotland's voters bear this in mind when they have the chance to vote her out next May.

I was potentially considering Scotland for a holiday in September, however as she has not ruled out imposing a quarantine on English visitors, I think I will give it a miss. Even at the start of this crisis, one part of the UK even considering quaranting visitors from the rest of the UK was something I thought would be out of the question.