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The worst European train you have travelled on

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class387

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IC? Railjet? TLK? You lot are kidding right? Try a run out in one of these horrors......

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppe...e:Nádraží_Jílové_u_Prahy,_vlak_ve_stanici.jpg

Dingy, uncomfortable, damp, rattly, stifling in summer, unpleasantly noisy lighting (yes, really) vinyl and formica mobile cesspits.......

Are those these trains by any chance? Because if they are I might have to break my 'all double deckers are welcome' rule.

http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/CZ/CD_Bmto.php
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A further search brings me onto these trains:

http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/PL/PKP_Bhp.php

I think it's time to break my rule now. :)
 
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Zamracene749

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Are those these trains by any chance? Because if they are I might have to break my 'all double deckers are welcome' rule.

http://www.vagonweb.cz/fotogalerie/CZ/CD_Bmto.php

Those are the ones- where they found photos that nice I don't know! Actually, I think some of these may have had a light refresh lately.

I've never had the pleasure of the Polish version, but they look to have a similar 'prison truck' ambience.....

I've broken my personal 'All old trains are cool' rule for these heaps ;)
 
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WestCoast

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Don't really understand the sharp distaste for the Railjet, sure it isn't a perfect train but it does have some very attractive features when compared to UK stock (e.g. proper buffet, GPS location screens, Business Class).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I remember not liking these much....
mav-bzmot-345-mit-bdzx-788023.jpg


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/CD_810_431_interior.JPG/440px-CD_810_431_interior.JPG
 
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class387

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Well... the worst European train I haven't been on has to be the notorious high speed V250...

I that case I will contribute the ETR470 of Cisalpino. Stylish, fast and comfortable (well as comfortable as a gen. 1 Pendolino can be anyway)... right up until the moment it broke down at Lugano. I don't think my case was I one-off either. <(

Still, at least I got to change onto a Re420 Ersatzzug.

(Not my photo)
 

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Bletchleyite

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Still don't see how it can be the worst train though. You don't hear many people saying "The worst train I've ever been on is a high-speed, Austrian train with 2+1 leather seats!". There are lots of trains where the seats don't recline and/or have no back support.

I have never been on any other train where the recliners on all of the seats in First Class were broken such that you couldn't lean your weight back on it without fully reclining it. Only on ageing, poorly maintained airliners have I experienced that problem. The cause appeared to be a design flaw (because it affected all of the seats) in a pneumatic recline mechanism that meant it leaked and so would not resist pressure from your back.

They would have been better if they didn't recline. Despite having a First Class ticket, had Standard not been full I'd have gone and sat there.

I felt thoroughly ripped off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Are those these trains by any chance? Because if they are I might have to break my 'all double deckers are welcome' rule.

DB have/had some slightly similar Eastern European ones that are/were equally terrible. Though the newer Western-design ones (curved roofline, aircon) they have are quite good.

If we are after more terrible DoStos, the Swiss IC2000 is a nasty train. Tiny windows and seats so narrow that I can't put the centre armrest down in 2nd and can only just do so in First Class, and those stupid kneeroom-destroying little bins at each bay. A real bean-counter's supposed InterCity train compared with the superb quality and excellent views from the ubiquitous EW IV hauled coaches.
 
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317666

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Everyone moaning about bench seats and no air-con, I'd take that any day over a Bombardier Talent 2! A potentially very good EMU ruined by horrendous seats and horrendous window alignment!
 
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Bletchleyite

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Those are probably bimdz coaches and are former Interregio (IR) coaches, now repainted in Intercity (IC) colors.

The idea of those odd layouts was to more closely resemble peoples' cars and allow the ideal of a group of seating per travelling party, I think.
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Przewozy Regionalne used to be part of PKP. But because of EU rulings PKP had to be broken up.

Was this yet another misinterpretation of an EU regulation? DB and SNCF have not been broken up, so I don't see why PKP needed to be in that way.
 

class387

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I have never been on any other train where the recliners on all of the seats in First Class were broken such that you couldn't lean your weight back on it without fully reclining it. Only on ageing, poorly maintained airliners have I experienced that problem. The cause appeared to be a design flaw (because it affected all of the seats) in a pneumatic recline mechanism that meant it leaked and so would not resist pressure from your back.

They would have been better if they didn't recline. Despite having a First Class ticket, had Standard not been full I'd have gone and sat there.

I felt thoroughly ripped off.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


DB have/had some slightly similar Eastern European ones that are/were equally terrible. Though the newer Western-design ones (curved roofline, aircon) they have are quite good.

If we are after more terrible DoStos, the Swiss IC2000 is a nasty train. Tiny windows and seats so narrow that I can't put the centre armrest down in 2nd and can only just do so in First Class, and those stupid kneeroom-destroying little bins at each bay. A real bean-counter's supposed InterCity train compared with the superb quality and excellent views from the ubiquitous EW IV hauled coaches.

Fair enough on the Railjets. I've only had them in standard so can't give my full view. But I still think it is just a dsign fault causing a potentially bad interior and not a ruined and awful train.

The M5 coaches in Belgium also have the flat roofline though that is compensated for on the refurbished ones with 2+1 seating throughout on the top deck.

I actually don't mind the IC2000s even though I can't say that I like them. Though they are quite warn (I've had ones with etched glass, torn seats, stinky toilets etc.) I don't think there is anything a half-decent refurbishment can't fix. I'm quite like the refurbished ICNs so something like that will do. The seats are fine for me (though I am not tall and quite thin) just a bit narrow. The window size is the main problem - it is one of the only trains where the single deckers offer a better view on the same route.

The EW IVs are excellent as you say and the older EW I/IIs are just as good. They are almost perfect trains and I always try to get one over a IC2000.
 

Spamcan81

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Seems like a decent unit to me. What exactly was wrong with it?

Meanwhile, the station looks to fit the defenition of the word 'dump'.


Positively spiffing compared to some of the stations I came across during my 1990 tour of Poland.
Carriages on the rural services were a bit crap but when you're being hauled by a 2-6-2 or a big 2-8-2, the quality of the rolling stock is not of great important. :)
 

johnnychips

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Naples' circumsevia (sp) lines aren't great. They're okay on quiet lines, but when they get rammed full of tourists going to Pompeii, they are sweaty horribly affairs. Then there's beggars, or even a band playing (until people stop giving them money). The seats are plastic so just keep getting hotter. A lot of trains and stations are also covered in graffiti.

However, it's par for the course in Napoli, and I'm still not convinced it was any worse than a leaky bus-seated Pacer in January...

Hear, hear! I think you meant 'Circumvesuviana', but the ones going west on the Cumana lines are just as bad - uncomfortable, sweaty, covered in graffiti, dodgy stations.

Whether the First Class seats recline properly or not on some trains, as discussed above in the thread, rather pales into insignificance! :)
 
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F Great Eastern

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Was this yet another misinterpretation of an EU regulation? DB and SNCF have not been broken up, so I don't see why PKP needed to be in that way.

It did everyone a favour though - PKP were truly awful back then and very old fashioned and behind the times, one of the worst operators I'd used anywhere across Europe at that time and whilst the competition from PR was limited, it at least forced PKP to do something more than nothing.

Trouble with PR was that they could have invented the sun the moon and the stars and they'd always have been suffocated with their competitor also being the company that was setting the track access charges, that's before all of the other issues they encountered in ticket sales, station access and path rights.
 
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DaiGog

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I would echo previous comments about the Circumvesuviana. Awful things, compounded by the timetable (they stop everywhere, no fast services at all).

The Czech / Slovakian wheeliebins as depicted in the picture further up are strange things too. I would also second the vote for CD non-air con double deck stock - and their former east German equivalent in service with DB.

As for RailJets, they are quite smart and swanky, but I always find them a little too stuffy, no matter what the time of year. In second class they suffer from the same problem as the GWR HSTs, in that the seats are ok for a couple of hours, but I wouldn't fancy doing Zurich - Budapest on one. I've done one in First on one occasion and other than it being too stuffy, found the seats to be OK.

Other nasties for me include the DB class 612 DMUs - hot and stuffy again, uncomfortable seats plus intrusive engine noise. They are not unlike our 158s in many ways, although they have considerably more grunt.

I'm also going to throw double deck TGVs into the mix. Not the worst things to travel on, but I find them claustrophobic.

Oh, and anything with rock hard seats which was desgined as an S-Bahn unit but finds itself, through poor specification and the drive to save costs, on long distance semi fast services. DB, I'm looking at you and your class 442 'Hamster' EMUs!
 
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duesselmartin

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To stay in Germany, the relatively new LINT DMUs are terrible. A tight squeeze, Insuffizient ventilation. The cigne based Vareo are a good example of this. The two hour run to Trier is very uncomfotable
 

Welly

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Basle to Luxembourg back in 2011. Tatty and tired SBB loco-hauled stock, SBB "forgot" to fill up the bog water tanks before the start from Basle to Brussels serving the main EU centres of Strasbourg and Luxembourg. 4 hour ride on that!
 

30907

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I'd second the EN57s - or at least the ones I've been on, i know they vary. Low plastic seats, worn out traction equipment...

Mixed feelings about modern DB units....

On the other hand, I quite like the CD East German doubledeckers!
 

class387

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Basle to Luxembourg back in 2011. Tatty and tired SBB loco-hauled stock, SBB "forgot" to fill up the bog water tanks before the start from Basle to Brussels serving the main EU centres of Strasbourg and Luxembourg. 4 hour ride on that!

Would the trains be these:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/SBB_CFF_FFS/car/EC/Bpm/pix.html

If so, I would be more than happy to spend 4+ hours on them. Toilet aside, they are fantastic and extremely comfortable coaches.
 

stut

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I travelled on some seriously ropey Romanian carriages in the 90s. You'd always see those multi-country long distance trains in those days and make a beeline for the Swiss, German or Austrian carriages!
 

class387

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Yes, very pleasant. Better, if anything, than the excellent EW IV due to the exceptionally generous legroom.

Agreed. I'm not sure whether the seats are better though, the EW IV seats seem to be more supportive. The EC stock is almost certainly better when sitting with someone else as the EW IV seats have no centre armrest.
 

Welly

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Would the trains be these:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/ch/SBB_CFF_FFS/car/EC/Bpm/pix.html

If so, I would be more than happy to spend 4+ hours on them. Toilet aside, they are fantastic and extremely comfortable coaches.

I think these were the stock. They were OK but definitely tired! I think SBB staff in Basle have a bad attitude towards the EU and would like to get at the 'crats riding in First Class betweem Strasbourg, Luxembourg and Brussels! At least it was hauled by an SNCF BB15000(?) all the way!
 

johnnychips

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I thought these Brussels-Basle trains had now been cancelled. Certainly a couple of years ago they'd pathed them as the hourly Brussels-Luxembourg train and v.v. rather than being 'extras'.
 

30907

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I thought these Brussels-Basle trains had now been cancelled. Certainly a couple of years ago they'd pathed them as the hourly Brussels-Luxembourg train and v.v. rather than being 'extras'.

They have been, TGV via Lille since July.
 

stut

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staff in Basle have a bad attitude

Having made many, many pre-Schengen journeys from Strasbourg down to what was then "Bâle SNCF" (which was, as the name suggests, run by the SNCF and not SBB/CFF/FFS(!)) I would simply cut down the phrase as above!
 

farci

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Seems like a decent unit to me. What exactly was wrong with it?

Meanwhile, the station looks to fit the defenition of the word 'dump'.
This image is the equivalent of a car showroom picture of a Lada - all shiny when new. The train I took was old, filthy, it rattled and was just plain neglected
 

fandroid

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I have travelled on some seriously rough trains between Katowice and Gliwice in Poland. For some bizarre reason the RE trains were worse and slower than the 'slow' trains. Poland is investing in its railways. The station at Katowice is a complete modern rebuild. The station at Gliwice was being rebuilt when I was last there. Perhaps one day they will increase the speeds on the lines!
 

nw1

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I would echo previous comments about the Circumvesuviana. Awful things, compounded by the timetable (they stop everywhere, no fast services at all).

Looks like the timetable has changed since I used it, way back in 1985. Does now indeed look that almost all trains stop almost everywhere (See http://www.eavsrl.it/web/sites/default/files/eavferro/Sorrento - Napoli for instance)

Back in 1985 the Sorrento-Naples was split into "Diretto" (about 2/3 stops made), "Direttissimo" (limited stop, about 1/3 stops made) and the oddly-named "Accelerato" (all-stations stopper). Almost all trains from Sorrento were Diretto and Direttissimo, with Acceleratos restricted to late evenings; at the time the timetable was somewhat erratic, being based around a 20-minute interval service but with some gaps (e.g might have been 08.00, 08.20, 09.00, 09.40, 10.20, 10.40, 11.20 etc). Don't recall the service being dirty or bad then though: trains seemed to be a mixture of 6- and 9-car workings from 3-car units.
 
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