• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Think tank report

Status
Not open for further replies.

imagination

Member
Joined
3 Aug 2010
Messages
485
Why does everyone always forget that a quarter of people in this country don't have a car - either because they don't earn enough to be able to afford the extremely high costs associated with car ownership or because they are so thoroughly opposed to owning a car for a variety of reasons that they are able to resist the constant pressure put on them by the majority of society (including their own friends and family) to get one?

Most people who DO own a car want to use it less as well.

To these people, public transport provides the only viable option for journeys of more than about 5 miles. And rail is an important part of that transport network.

Recommendations to make public transport "profitable" by cutting services is merely sticking a big middle finger up at the majority of society due to the blind (and false) assumption that everyone wants to (and is able to) drive.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Metroland

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2005
Messages
3,212
Location
Midlands
I don't have a car, and rail is the only real option for the vast majority of medium/long distance journeys. I went to a steam fair in the summer about 25 miles as the crow flies, and it took THREE-FOUR hours to get there by bus.

Nobody was on the buses, because they are so slow. Whether the Somerset and Dorset would have been quicker since they ripped it out over 40 years ago, I don't know. But it was quite clear the only option for most people was car.

As Yorkie points out, these reports tend to be either written by right wing types who just don't want to pay anything towards society in some cases, or lobbyists, to lock us all into motor breakdown cover or buying expensive cars.

The whole idea, as the report points out, we have a menu of things we decide we want to pay for is a farce.

There's lots of things I don't want to pay for, such as wars in Iraq, other's people's kids education (if I wanted to be selfish) and so on. I'm sure everyone reading has lists of things they don't want to pay for, or would like to pay for, but it's called society.

Am I really best placed to make a decision whether we should be paying for wars in iraq? I doubt it. If local people didn't want a line, this would affect people in a distant town who might have relatives in that town, who had no other way of getting there and so on. Or say, in the future, people that voted NOT to keep the line had children. Then those children had no way of getting to/from work or out on leisure. Or say, they had an accident later in life, and couldn't drive and needed public transport; the decision rationale is now completely different.

I might come across as keen on rail, and while it is my mode of choice admittedly, but its the only feasible option. What these people forget, is they want to inflict non-stop fare rises and (if we implemented this report) service cuts on people that don't have much choice.

This is what so miffs me about the likes of Bob Crow who doesn't give a damn he is taking more and more money from me, to go about my business when they go on strike and demand a pay rise. It's not a magic pot in the sky, the money comes from ordinary people. The same applies to greedy fat cats.

But why don't you buy a car you cry? Well I could eventually, right now my circumstances do not fit it. And surely, we all go through times in life, especially when were young, old, in education or hard up, when we want to travel long distances, or go out at night, or travel into cities, or travel abroad where decent public transport is very handy, and is part of the fabric of the nation.

Even people who have cars are affected by these decisions. Some people in large towns and cities spend an age getting anywhere because of congestion. They can lose 30 mins to 2 hours every day just trying to get a few short miles from A-B.

Let's say, someone is losing 90 mins each day just travelling each way going to and from work, sat in traffic over 330 days a year. That's 495 hours per year. Over 45 years, that's 22,275 hours of life just lost or over 2.5 years. That's waking hours just wasted.

We don't mind paying for expensive operations or medicine to give us 2.5 years of life on the NHS, but we do question in this country it seems spending far less on a decent alternative to give us these options, whether we drive or not.
 
Last edited:

Greenback

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
9 Aug 2009
Messages
15,268
Location
Llanelli
People with cars do tend to forget that there are lots of people who either cannot afford to run a car, are medically unfit to drive or simply choose not to own a vehicle. I don;t have one now, and when I tell people I travel by bus and train, their shocked expression says it all!

Metroland makes a lot of good points above. I particularly like the bit about what would happen if local people didn;t want to keep 'their' railway line. Suppose Llandovery and Llandod wanted to keep the HoW line, but Llandeilo and Knighton didn't see the point and refused to contribute? Would the stations be closed, but the line kept to serve the towns that wante it? How much would that save? Would those towns have to pay more as a result fo the lost income from other places? Or would the line have to close unelss every single community along it contributed? The whole idea is utter nonsense!

We must all learn to accept that our taxes help pay for things that we as individuals may not use or want. yet we pay for the benefit of others in our nation.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
39,182
Location
Yorks
TOCs have spent 95% of their time Privatised under a series of Labour Governments so why do you suggest that the increase is down to "Right Wing think tanks" ?

The dramatic increase in funding is purely down to the Policies of those Governments and has nothing to do with think tanks. Richard Branson, a massive supporter of Labour, promised there would be no subsidy within a couple of years if he ran services.

Some 10 years on and he has the largest subsidy per passenger mile of any TOC

The only TOC to actually pay money into the Treasury was destroyed by Labour in a cynical and manipulative manner simply because GNER was the only TOC who was run by those who were not friends and supporters of Labour.

Do the maths, follow the logic, check the profits, look at the subsidy, identify the controlling minds, check the Labour party donations, and see where that takes you.

I have to point out that we have yet to see whether the current administration can make the structure dreamt up eighteen years ago work with less subsidy. Whether they can manage this without massive service cuts or fare hikes in comparison to the service offered at that time will be the proof of whether the ideology works.
 

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
I'm sure more people would go by rail on some journeys if you didn't have to book in advance to travel at a reasonable price. You don't always know the weather weeks in advance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top