this is apalling (NHS to refuse surgery to the obese and smokers)

[Cambus731]

Vote for a Tory government and this is the result.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-by-denying-surgery-to-smokers-and-the-obese

The decision by an NHS body to restrict obese patients’ access to elective surgery until they lose weight is comparable with racial or religious discrimination, a surgeon has said.

The Vale of York clinical commissioning group (CCG) will make people wait for up to a year for treatment for non-life-threatening conditions such as hip and knee replacements if their body mass index is 30 or higher.

The group said it had taken the decision because it was the “best way of achieving maximum value from the limited resources available”.

Shaw Somers, a bariatric surgeon from Portsmouth, said the move was a logical step and could save money, but amounted to discrimination because obesity was an illness....

 

[Howardh]

First on my list to avoid NHS treatment would be drunks. If you hurt yourself when plastered...tough!!

Logically, faggers pay a fag-tax which goes towards the NHS. The problem with the (marvellous) reduction in smoking is we get less tax from it to spend on the NHS, so it's a two-edged sword. The drinkers are also taxed, of course.

Let's have a fat-tax so if someone enjoys a triple-burger, they are paying added tax on top which should be earmarked for the NHS?

Otherwise we might end up going down the road of having to pay insurance towards health care - so those smoking, drinking obese types will have huge premiums if they want treatment (on top of the current tax they pay) so let's put the tax on now before the horse has bolted. Or been eaten.

 

[AlterEgo]

So they're only refusing elective surgery. Frankly nobody should be smoking these days. With obesity I have a great deal more sympathy as the issue isn't always "you sit around all day and eat too much".

 

[backontrack]

Indeed. Many obese people are those who cannot afford better-quality food, and have to eat what they can. Once again, this will affect the poorest the hardest.

 

[LateThanNever]

First on my list to avoid NHS treatment would be drunks. If you hurt yourself when plastered...tough!!

Logically, faggers pay a fag-tax which goes towards the NHS. The problem with the (marvellous) reduction in smoking is we get less tax from it to spend on the NHS, so it's a two-edged sword. The drinkers are also taxed, of course.

Let's have a fat-tax so if someone enjoys a triple-burger, they are paying added tax on top which should be earmarked for the NHS?

Otherwise we might end up going down the road of having to pay insurance towards health care - so those smoking, drinking obese types will have huge premiums if they want treatment (on top of the current tax they pay) so let's put the tax on now before the horse has bolted. Or been eaten.

But people need to be told how to lose weight! Fat doesn't make you fat but sugar does. See http://doctoraseem.com/
And don't forget either that sterling is a sovereign currency so we don't tax and spend, we spend and tax. The starving of money for the NHS since the coalition Tories came to power is pure ideology.
They say the NHS is at a record high for funding but population growth is at a record high too so the funding is in fact an ever smaller share of GDP - and as much as 6% less as a proportion of GDP compared with Germany and France.
That's why the junior doctors are so upset. The government bleats on about wanting a 7 day NHS but it doesnt want to provide the resources by increasing the budget, which means there is no scope for the support services to be 7 day. The whole thing is a con.

Trying to ration treatment by excluding smokers or fatties is effectively a desperate attempt to try to live with the government refusal to give adequate resources.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Indeed. Many obese people are those who cannot afford better-quality food, and have to eat what they can. Once again, this will affect the poorest the hardest.

It's not that better quality food is more expensive, it is that the poor have insufficient knowledge of what to buy and what to cook. Jack Monroe shows how easy it can be to eat well and cheaply if you know how!
https://cookingonabootstrap.com/

 

[Bletchleyite]

But people need to be told how to lose weight! Fat doesn't make you fat but sugar does.

In simple terms, eating more calories than you burn makes you fat. It matters less what it is than that formula, and exercise burns massively less than you'd think.

However, eating certain combinations of nutrients does make your body a little more likely to burn existing fat, which is probably where his argument really goes.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's not that better quality food is more expensive, it is that the poor have insufficient knowledge of what to buy and what to cook. Jack Monroe shows how easy it can be to eat well and cheaply if you know how!
https://cookingonabootstrap.com/

Indeed. Much as I like a good slab of cow, if I had to eat on a real budget I'd go veggie. Not vegan, though.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

https://cookingonabootstrap.com/[/url]

Exactly that...and the proliferation of rubbish fast food shops on the High Street (and Railway Stations) and Ready Meals in Supermarkets and today's lifestyle choices where many choose the wrong course.......

 

[SS4]

With an extra £350 million per week going to the NHS I can't see this being a problem :roll:

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

People might be obese because of a medical condition or disabillity.
I'm also convinced that my two unrelated cats with the same diet being fat and thin suggests that a person's DNA can have a big effect on how soon someone becomes obese.

Even if they had mass hamburger eating competitions daily, they need help like everyone else.
This is a savage move by the careless polliticians and bureaucrats.

 

[Trog]

To my mind it depends on the surgery involved, if the treatment is needed because of damage caused by for example smoking and carrying on smoking will undo the 'repair' why waste public money on it. If smoking is irrelevant to the problem and will stay that way, advise the patient that stopping might be a good idea, although they probably already know that already, but do the surgery.

 

[Clip]

Indeed. Many obese people are those who cannot afford better-quality food, and have to eat what they can. Once again, this will affect the poorest the hardest.

This is rubbish. You can eat healthy very cheaply. People just don't want to invest the time to do so as a microwave meal or take out is easier

 

[Merseysider]

With an extra £350 million per week going to the NHS I can't see this being a problem :roll:

Plus, after Brexit, there'll be no moar of dem imigrents comin over takin are health service for free so it'll even out :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Vote for a Tory government and this is the result.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-by-denying-surgery-to-smokers-and-the-obese

I am trying to establish some sort of a logical connection between the General Election that brought a Conservative government into power and a single NHS Vale of York clinical commissioning group.

 

[Gutfright]

I am trying to establish some sort of a logical connection between the General Election that brought a Conservative government into power and a single NHS Vale of York clinical commissioning group.

Austerity?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Austerity?

Affecting only the residents of York?

 

[backontrack]

Affecting only the residents of York?

You mean Easingwold.

Don't expect this commission to be alone. Many more will follow.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

This is rubbish. You can eat healthy very cheaply. People just don't want to invest the time to do so as a microwave meal or take out is easier

I have a £1-1.50 budget for my personal dinner when I shop at Icelands. You find something for less than that typical pizza price in there which is healthy and I'll buy it on Monday. (Ideally I'd need 1000kcal for dinner).

Also alot of people can't invest time as they got a job and leaving the cooking on when no one's in... could go wrong (also power bill is more). Plus a hob/stove/cooker/oven etc. is alot more expensive than a Microwave
Also there's no reason to assume food is more unhealthy because it wasn't slowcooked, you can microwave veg too.

 

[PHILIPE]

The NHS is overburdened with Fat. Fat Cats who pay themselves what they like and if they oversee a foul up, as we have seen this week, they just step down and then some "mates" (also fat cats) create a job for them at a similar salary and nobody does anything to stop this gravy train. These people then blame the media for the problem, not themselves. The lady in question should have been SACKED as she probably would have been if she'd been a nurse.

 

[ComUtoR]

I actually think they have made a good decision. There is an increased risk with surgery and longer recovery times.

 

[AlterEgo]

I have a £1-1.50 budget for my personal dinner when I shop at Icelands. You find something for less than that typical pizza price in there which is healthy and I'll buy it on Monday. (Ideally I'd need 1000kcal for dinner).

Also alot of people can't invest time as they got a job and leaving the cooking on when no one's in... could go wrong (also power bill is more). Plus a hob/stove/cooker/oven etc. is alot more expensive than a Microwave
Also there's no reason to assume food is more unhealthy because it wasn't slowcooked, you can microwave veg too.

It is simple. Do not shop at Iceland.

You can make a decent vegetable stir fry out of almost nothing.

 

[AnonymousUser1]

I am trying to establish some sort of a logical connection between the General Election that brought a Conservative government into power and a single NHS Vale of York clinical commissioning group.

there isn't , but it's a spinal reflex in homo corbynista and homo trotskitii

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Affecting only the residents of York?

Presumably the point is that austerity affects all parts of the country, and each local NHS area has to decide how best to cope with the resultant lack of resources. York has apparently chosen this route as a way to save money, and other areas may choose to make cuts in different ways, but if it wasn't for austerity there would be no (or at least, less) need to make the cuts.

Besides, who says it's only York? Maybe it's simply a case that York is the first place to announce this, but others will follow? Who knows...

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

The NHS is overburdened with Fat. Fat Cats who pay themselves what they like and if they oversee a foul up, as we have seen this week, they just step down and then some "mates" (also fat cats) create a job for them at a similar salary and nobody does anything to stop this gravy train. These people then blame the media for the problem, not themselves. The lady in question should have been SACKED as she probably would have been if she'd been a nurse.

How very true! I've seen such shenanigans when I was in the NHS, and I know it's still going on up here amongst the Gogs

I am trying to establish some sort of a logical connection between the General Election that brought a Conservative government into power and a single NHS Vale of York clinical commissioning group.

There is a more of a logical connection between this conservative government and a cash-strapped CCG then there is between Jeremy Corbyn and the former Eastern bloc that you often make in another thread!

 

[backontrack]

There is a more of a logical connection between this conservative government and a cash-strapped CCG then there is between Jeremy Corbyn and the former Eastern bloc that you often make in another thread!

Hear, hear.

The Vale of York CCG won't be the only one to announce this, I bet you that.

 

[tbtc]

Aside from the predictable outrage about politicians etc, there's maybe something to be said for this move.

If we are spending money on obesity related operations then there's maybe an argument to be made for insisting that people show that they can lose a certain weight before they have it - otherwise there's a danger that they'll just keep putting weight on afterwards, thus causing more weight problems. Otherwise the operation isn't tackling underlying issues.

Same with smokers - I'd rather that finite resources were targeted at those at least trying to quit - or operations become little more than a sticking plaster (no pun intended...).

Indeed. Many obese people are those who cannot afford better-quality food, and have to eat what they can. Once again, this will affect the poorest the hardest.

It's not that better quality food is more expensive, it is that the poor have insufficient knowledge of what to buy and what to cook. Jack Monroe shows how easy it can be to eat well and cheaply if you know how!
https://cookingonabootstrap.com/

Agreed.

You can get three bananas for fifty pence in most supermarkets, which is less than the price of a single bar of branded chocolate in such establishments.

Blame time pressures or lack of education, sure, but I don't buy the "healthy food costs more" argument.

They say the NHS is at a record high for funding but population growth is at a record high too so the funding is in fact an ever smaller share of GDP - and as much as 6% less as a proportion of GDP compared with Germany and France.
That's why the junior doctors are so upset. The government bleats on about wanting a 7 day NHS but it doesnt want to provide the resources by increasing the budget, which means there is no scope for the support services to be 7 day. The whole thing is a con

We were always going to have this problem, as the "baby boomers" reached the age where bits started falling off... the time bomb caused by the bump in population was fairly predictable.

You can deal with the increased number of pension claimants by bringing in lots of twenty/ thirty-something workers to balance the public finances, but dealing with the increase in operations for the NHS is something that any forward thinking country should have been planning for.

Much as I like a good slab of cow, if I had to eat on a real budget I'd go veggie. Not vegan, though.

Same here - I was a mainly-veggie as a Student - needs must.

With an extra £350 million per week going to the NHS I can't see this being a problem :roll:

Affecting only the residents of York?

Affecting a hospital in special measures (as outlined in the article)?

 

[backontrack]

Yeah, that's exactly what I said. Definitely.

 

[Busaholic]

The decision has been overruled by powers further up in the NHS, as were at least two previous attempts by different Trusts, once iirc when Labour were in power and once during Coalition days. Everyone knows the NHS must have a shedload more of cash just in order to stand still (certainly including the people behind the lying Leave campaign) and Theresa May/Philip Hammond are not so stupid as to bury their heads in the sand over it. Participants in this forum would probably not overwhelmingly greet the news that x billion £s was to be diverted from HS2 to NHS, but I would be amazed if that wasn't the case within the next few months, maybe even weeks. It won't be diverted from Trident replacement imo, although that may get quietly squeezed i.e. put further back in time.

 

[Trog]

I am trying to establish some sort of a logical connection between the General Election that brought a Conservative government into power and a single NHS Vale of York clinical commissioning group.

There isn't really the NHS has always been a mixed bag, they treated my wife disgracefully while Liebour were still in power, and are probably no better now. That said they have always been OK with me, but then a 6'-0" bloke is perhaps more likely to be treated with respect. As for funding health services are a money pit, if they were given the entire countries GDP they would be back asking for more the following year.

 

[DarloRich]

surely the extra £350m per week will fix this?

 

[Harbornite]

There isn't really the NHS has always been a mixed bag, they treated my wife disgracefully while Liebour were still in power, and are probably no better now. That said they have always been OK with me, but then a 6'-0" bloke is perhaps more likely to be treated with respect. As for funding health services are a money pit, if they were given the entire countries GDP they would be back asking for more the following year.

Indeed, the Staffs scandal occured while Labour were in power so their hands aren't spotless either. Two wrongs don't make a right though.