Thumper & Shoebox to the Bluebell (207202 & 73133)

[fgwrich]

Well, this will be a very welcome news if the move is authorised by the board! I wish them all the best with it - It will also mean, somewhat surprisingly, 2 out of the 3 surviving 207s will be living in the south, only a short distance from each other and close to the lines they originally ran on. As for the 73 - Equally a surprise, it's certainly not the Spa Valley's Shoebox as they have put out a statement this afternoon to say it isn't theirs!

https://www.bluebell-railway.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/issue-39.pdf

We have been offered a couple of interesting proposals on the diesel front, both with very Southern connections.
Firstly, the Bluebell has been offered an Oxted DEMU 1305 at no cost to the Railway. In fact, this unit formed the very last working by DEMU between Uckfield and Oxted in 2004. It is in sound mechanical and electrical condition but requires some bodywork repairs. Secondly, there may be the opportunity through a generous donor to be able to acquire an ED locomotive, which is already in regular use in the South East.
These decisions will require the approval of the Trust (which may well become the owner of one of the units), the Preservation Society and plc boards and the proposals will be put to the boards at the next meeting and the decisions will be reported in The Bluebell Times.

The new group behind it have also set up a Facebook page, available here:

1305 Oxted Thumper Gang

1305 Oxted Thumper Gang. 1,535 likes · 172 talking about this. Restoration page for the first and only Bluebell Railway owned mainline diesel traction. DEMU 1305

www.facebook.com

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Sounds Interesting.

 

[class68fan]

Where does the 207 get kept now?
Spa looses its longest resident mainline diesel?

Good news for Bluebell.

 

[zwk500]

Spa looses its longest resident mainline diesel?

Post #1 explicitly says they've denied it.

 

[JonathanH]

Presumably there is a chance that the 73 is 73202 which was reported to no longer be needed by GTR?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-class-455-withdrawal.228600/page-18#post-5617398

 

[zwk500]

Presumably there is a chance that the 73 is 73202 which was reported to no longer be needed by GTR?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/southern-class-455-withdrawal.228600/page-18#post-5617398

Quite possible. Only other thing I can think is that GBRf might want to get rid of their fleet with their tri modes coming in.

 

[RichJF]

As a resident of East Grinstead, I say go & get them! Both have history with the lines in this area.

Seems the Bluebell are finally starting to realise that steam is lovely, but having other forms of traction (class 33) may a bit of future-proofing.

 

[zwk500]

Seems the Bluebell are finally starting to realise that steam is lovely, but having other forms of traction (class 33) may a bit of future-proofing.

Tbf the Bluebell have acknowledged this for a while, having hired in diesels for a number of years for extension/shunting duties and purchasing their own shunters a reasonable time ago. I suspect it's an acknowledgment of the costs of running steam and also possibly influence of newer members who don't remember steam but do remember classic diesel traction.

 

[MarkyT]

Tbf the Bluebell have acknowledged this for a while, having hired in diesels for a number of years for extension/shunting duties and purchasing their own shunters a reasonable time ago. I suspect it's an acknowledgment of the costs of running steam and also possibly influence of newer members who don't remember steam but do remember classic diesel traction.

A thumper might be a suitable rolling stock solution for the Ardingly branch, not requiring run-round at Haywards Heath.

 

[zwk500]

A thumper might be a suitable rolling stock solution for the Ardingly branch, not requiring run-round at Haywards Heath.

It might be in the back of their minds, but there are an awful lot of hoops to jump through yet before the BRPS will have to think about that. Arguably it's a potential distraction at this point - they need to make sure they've got a use for stock in the near term, and that it won't sit round the back of Horsted Keynes for 20 years under a tarp

 

[fgwrich]

Tbf the Bluebell have acknowledged this for a while, having hired in diesels for a number of years for extension/shunting duties and purchasing their own shunters a reasonable time ago. I suspect it's an acknowledgment of the costs of running steam and also possibly influence of newer members who don't remember steam but do remember classic diesel traction.

If it is approved, then it will predominately allow the Bluebell something they've not been able to do for some time - offer an earlier service in the morning, and a later service running into the evening. The downside of course with Steam is the time it takes to be prepared for service. I can see that being the main reason, as well as it's Sussex heritage.

Now of course, the biggest question of all: If it is approved, which way around do you run it? Engine at the south end (as per their years on the Uckfield Line) or engine at the North end?

 

[williamn]

If it is approved, then it will predominately allow the Bluebell something they've not been able to do for some time - offer an earlier service in the morning, and a later service running into the evening. The downside of course with Steam is the time it takes to be prepared for service. I can see that being the main reason, as well as it's Sussex heritage.

Now of course, the biggest question of all: If it is approved, which way around do you run it? Engine at the south end (as per their years on the Uckfield Line) or engine at the North end?

Weren’t they supposed to start earlier services with diesel traction this year? I’d planned a trip around it but upon checking closer to the time saw that the train was no longer running.

 

[Wyrleybart]

If it is approved, then it will predominately allow the Bluebell something they've not been able to do for some time - offer an earlier service in the morning, and a later service running into the evening. The downside of course with Steam is the time it takes to be prepared for service. I can see that being the main reason, as well as it's Sussex heritage.

Now of course, the biggest question of all: If it is approved, which way around do you run it? Engine at the south end (as per their years on the Uckfield Line) or engine at the North end?

I suspect the question will not surface with many simply because a DMU is a DMU with a cab at either end.

 

[fgwrich]

I suspect the question will not surface with many simply because a DMU is a DMU with a cab at either end.

DEMU Don’t forget that with a Thumper, the engine / noise compartment is in the body. You certainly notice it when travelling in those units, particularly when you’re in the motor coach and with the Bluebell being fairly steeply graded, it might be asked!

Here is the aforementioned 207202 back in 2004.

 

[zwk500]

Now of course, the biggest question of all: If it is approved, which way around do you run it? Engine at the south end (as per their years on the Uckfield Line) or engine at the North end?

DEMU Don’t forget that with a Thumper, the engine / noise compartment is in the body. You certainly notice it when travelling in those units, particularly when you’re in the motor coach and with the Bluebell being fairly steeply graded, it might be asked!

The overall gradient for the Bluebell rises northbound, and steeply at times. So I suspect if they are able to ask for a preference then they'd prefer it whichever way round makes climbing the hills easier (engine at the north end?). Uckfield trains were presumably engine on the country end to avoid fuming out the buffer stops at Victoria/London Bridge.

However I suspect that if it goes by rail, it'll be whichever way round it comes.

 

[Towers]

DEMU Don’t forget that with a Thumper, the engine / noise compartment is in the body. You certainly notice it when travelling in those units, particularly when you’re in the motor coach and with the Bluebell being fairly steeply graded, it might be asked!

Here is the aforementioned 207202 back in 2004.

Just lovely

 

[Graham H]

So will it be a 3D, a 2D or a 2D with a former 'slam door' in the middle as they ran towards the end of their lives which I understood was primarily to add toilet facilities although on a 3D these were in the centre car anyway werent they ?

 

[Dunfanaghy Rd]

I would guess that the drivers would prefer the engine at the south end, if the prevailing grade is uphill to East Grinstead. I 'rode shotgun' with a driver on the last DEMU to leave Eastleigh Works to Selhurst. Engine end leading from Eastleigh to the Toilet Pans behind Norwood Junction. After we changed ends the silence was almost deafening!
Pat

 

[fgwrich]

So will it be a 3D, a 2D or a 2D with a former 'slam door' in the middle as they ran towards the end of their lives which I understood was primarily to add toilet facilities although on a 3D these were in the centre car anyway werent they ?

It will have to be a 2D for now as the former CEP trailer was sold on separately during its departure from the East Lancs. I believe the intention is to return it to as built condition anyway, so the CEP vehicle wouldn’t meet that criteria.

 

[bramling]

The overall gradient for the Bluebell rises northbound, and steeply at times. So I suspect if they are able to ask for a preference then they'd prefer it whichever way round makes climbing the hills easier (engine at the north end?). Uckfield trains were presumably engine on the country end to avoid fuming out the buffer stops at Victoria/London Bridge.

However I suspect that if it goes by rail, it'll be whichever way round it comes.

In the final days I don’t think any effort was made to orientate the trains any particular way round. Certainly on both Uckfield and Ashford to Hastings it was very much pot luck.

Great news about 207202 going to the Bluebell, it will make a fantastic addition to their line-up.

 

[32475]

I wouldn’t have said this twenty years ago but the nostalgic bar moves with time and I think it would be wonderful for the Bluebell to acquire the Thumper. To see it in green livery not far from its old stamping ground would be very appropriate and relatively economical to run at off peak times.
Internally, if it is fitted to replicate its as built appearance with appropriate moquette, carriage prints, lighting, luggage racks and red triangular No Smoking stickers etc, it could prove to be very popular.

 

[Graham H]

It will have to be a 2D for now as the former CEP trailer was sold on separately during its departure from the East Lancs. I believe the intention is to return it to as built condition anyway, so the CEP vehicle wouldn’t meet that criteria.

2D will be quite a short train then, just 1 1/2 coaches roughly. All those craving some real diesel thump in one coach I bet ! Would be good to have it back as built but are there any middle coaches available now ? One was listed as preserved on its own in Hungerford, would be good to reunite it with 1305.

 

[30907]

In the final days I don’t think any effort was made to orientate the trains any particular way round. Certainly on both Uckfield and Ashford to Hastings it was very much pot luck.

And in earlier times the triangle at Groombridge made it impossible.

 

[bramling]

2D will be quite a short train then, just 1 1/2 coaches roughly. All those craving some real diesel thump in one coach I bet ! Would be good to have it back as built but are there any middle coaches available now ? One was listed as preserved on its own in Hungerford, would be good to reunite it with 1305.

The only authentic middle vehicle is that from 207017, which is at the Spa Valley Railway, though they don’t seem to use it.

In some ways there would be some merit in swapping the units round so the Bluebell would have 207017 as a three car, and Spa Valley have 207202 as a two car. Politics would prevent that from happening though!

 

[MarkyT]

The only authentic middle vehicle is that from 207017, which is at the Spa Valley Railway, though they don’t seem to use it.h

Are there any surviving EMU trailers of a similar vintage and style that might look right and could be used instead?

 

[yorksrob]

It will have to be a 2D for now as the former CEP trailer was sold on separately during its departure from the East Lancs. I believe the intention is to return it to as built condition anyway, so the CEP vehicle wouldn’t meet that criteria.

Ah, so it's the former East Lancs railway one. I wondered what was happenning with that. Good on the Bluebell !

 

[DustyBin]

Are there any surviving EMU trailers of a similar vintage and style that might look right and could be used instead?

Unless it’s from the same class, of which there is a single survivor as @bramling stated upthread, it will look odd due to the width.

 

[Falcon1200]

Unless it’s from the same class, of which there is a single survivor as @bramling stated upthread, it will look odd due to the width.

But realistic, as per the photo in Post #14!

 

[yorksrob]

Depends what one thinks of as odd. The CEP carriage always looked odd in them, but it was their normal state for a decade or so.

Something of normal width but with lots of doors such as a 205 trailer would look more "normal", but may only have happened occasionally (if at all).

 

[DustyBin]

But realistic, as per the photo in Post #14!

Depends what one thinks of as odd. The CEP carriage always looked odd in them, but it was their normal state for a decade or so.

Something of normal width but with lots of doors such as a 205 trailer would look more "normal", but may only have happened occasionally (if at all).

You’re both right of course in that “odd” was normal for quite a few years! A 205 or BR design EPB trailer would be the best fit I think.

They could always get another Thumper and couple them together to make a longer train!