Ticket “cheats” (Loopholes)

[Alistair G.]

hi guys,

A few years ago I remember reading in this forum about how you could get strange tickets for just a small fraction of what they would usually cost, you would just have to go via somewhere, (for example, Kings cross to Leeds via Cambridge or something daft! about £3

Are there any such glitches at the moment??

 

[Merseysider]

If there were, they certainly wouldn’t be revealed on a fully public forum...?

 

[Alistair G.]

If there were, they certainly wouldn’t be revealed on a fully public forum...?

Surely that’s why we PM isn’t it?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

hi guys,

A few years ago I remember reading in this forum about how you could get strange tickets for just a small fraction of what they would usually cost, you would just have to go via somewhere, (for example, Kings cross to Leeds via Cambridge or something daft! about £3

Are there any such glitches at the moment??

There are bound to be many 'glitches' in a system of many millions of fares. However, these forums are read very carefully by train company pricing managers. If we revealed a glitch here then it could be 'fixed' very quickly indeed. That would be pointless, as them all the people currently relying on it would have to find another 'glitch' potentially meaning a more complex or longer journey.

And with all due respect, we can't simply afford to PM everyone the glitches either. We have no idea who is and isn't a pricing manager. It's best simply for us to give others the tools to help them find the 'right' fare for them.

 

[yorkie]

I do not believe that purchasing a ticket for the price displayed online and printed on the ticket, and using that ticket in accordance with the itinerary offered, is "cheating".

hi guys,

A few years ago I remember reading in this forum about how you could get strange tickets for just a small fraction of what they would usually cost, you would just have to go via somewhere, (for example, Kings cross to Leeds via Cambridge or something daft! about £3

See Validity of tickets on MML (South Yorkshire to Kent for £8.60) (image of ticket) and Would this be honoured east kilbride to tweedbank (Borders to Strathclyde, Wick, Thurso etc for £1) there were also Chiltern tickets for 20p but I can't find the thread now.

Are there any such glitches at the moment??

No, but if there were, I think the only way to find out about them would be if you knew someone in person who told you. The forum meals are good places to find out about such things.

They occasionally get posted online while they are still available , but that usually means they get fixed within such a short period of time people don't have chance to actually book them!

The Scotrail one was a bit of an exception because the company didn't appear to have a pricing manager at the time. Instead of fixing the price, the company illegally deleted any particular fare they became of, e.g. Tweedbank to East Kilbride. But people just used other origins/destinations in the same clusters. It took about 10 days before it was fixed, although the company wasn't aware of it for the first few days. The company breached the TSA on multiple occasions by refusing sales of the tickets. There was a time when many of the affected journeys had no fare at all and passengers were told to purchase a combination of higher priced fares (e.g. Tweedbank to Edinburgh plus Edinburgh to Kyle); anyone in the know was able to buy a cheap fare though.

Some of us even utilised the easement allowing tickets valid between Edinburgh & Kyle to be valid via Mallaig and Fort William

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

hi guys,

A few years ago I remember reading in this forum about how you could get strange tickets for just a small fraction of what they would usually cost, you would just have to go via somewhere, (for example, Kings cross to Leeds via Cambridge or something daft! about £3

Are there any such glitches at the moment??

As a wet behind the ears newbie on here, I once revealed a cheat which saved me good money, within weeks of me mentioning it on here, funnily enough said "cheat" was gone and removed in the next round of updates after being there for years and years.

So there are spies amongst us............ take note

 

[AnkleBoots]

Probably cheaper than any glitch for a journey from Kings Cross to Leeds is Megabusplus via East Midlands Parkway.

 

[cactustwirly]

These loopholes can be quite easy to find, it just requires some 'outside the box' thinking.

 

[RJ]

As a wet behind the ears newbie on here, I once revealed a cheat which saved me good money, within weeks of me mentioning it on here, funnily enough said "cheat" was gone and removed in the next round of updates after being there for years and years.

So there are spies amongst us............ take note

It's the same with any value added activity, such as manufactured spending and arbitrage betting - things posted in public get shut down rapidly!

Best to keep the best anomalies out of the public domain!

 

[RJ]

These loopholes can be quite easy to find, it just requires some 'outside the box' thinking.

'Outside the box' thinking requires knowledge of how the system works. Not sure how others find their savings, but for me, it's a combination of;

• Using the National Routing Guide
• Exercising rights the National Rail Conditions of Travel allow
• Use of Off Peak tickets to legitimately circumvent peak restrictions
• Using journey planners to retrieve favourable itineraries and unlock access to cheaper fares which are not shown by default.
• Use of websites in and out of the public domain to support all of the above
• Use of the fares feed released by the RDG
• Awareness of temporary and long term glitches in the online journey planners
• Discussion with people who share similar interests and find their own loopholes

Learning all those things and setting up the infrastructure to do so doesn't happen overnight - so in that regard, I don't consider it to be easy. But with experience, finding tickets which save a chunk off the price the TOCs offer only takes a few seconds.

 

[185143]

There's simple things like ticket splitting, which can easily save a lot of money. These are often found where different TOC prices different fares.

Example:

City A to City B via City C.

TOC 'A' price the through ticket. Their policy is to rob people blind who are travelling long distances and extort as much of their cash as possible.
But: if you buy a ticket to City C then another from there to City B then you can save a lot as the B-C fare is priced by another TOC who charge far more sensible prices.

There are, of course, other tickets you can buy and take the mickey a bit with the National Routeing Guide. I'd highly reccomend the forum's Fares Workshops if you're interested in finding out more about this. As Yorkie says, I hear the forum meals are also a great opportunity to learn about loopholes. (On that note, I really must get myself to one at some point!)

As others have said, be careful what you mention on here-TOC's watch this forum like hawks. (Which admittedly can have it's good points! I posted a bit of a rant on here about Northern refusing to accept a valid driving licence as ID for a 16-18 ticket in Merseyside and the issue fixed itself overnight!)

 

[cactustwirly]

If travelling from B-C, I look at the prices of neighbouring stations A & D so see if they are any cheaper.
Sometimes they will be cheaper, but in most cases they are the same price or they only save £1 or £2. The other loopholes are a bit harder to find.

 

[185143]

If travelling from B-C, I look at the prices of neighbouring stations A & D so see if they are any cheaper.
Sometimes they will be cheaper, but in most cases they are the same price or they only save £1 or £2. The other loopholes are a bit harder to find.

Especially if B-C is a busy flow, the price of which may have been disproportionally increased compared to A-C, A-D or B-D.

 

[Hadders]

Also day return tickets are often only available over shorter distances. If you're making a long distance day return journey then it can often be advantageous to split the journey into a number of day return tickets to make a saving.

Getting around timing restrictions is another way a saving can be made (particularly evening restrictions). I am making a journey to Bath to see a rugby match on Friday night, returning after the match. The railway wants me to pay £223 to make this journey (I need to take a train to London, cross to Paddington then planning to get the 1700 departure). There are no Advance fares on this train. £223 is far too much to pay but the journey can be done using a combination of tickets (simple splits, no exploitation of the routeing guide etc.) for less than £50.

 

[yorkie]

So there are spies amongst us............ take note

This forum is very popular among almost anyone who is employed in a role that has anything to do with fares.

In fact, it would probably be considered be unwise for anyone in such a role not to view this forum!

I don't want to be too critical of your choice of words, but it isn't really a case of anyone spying; it is a case of them viewing a very useful resource, which is of course to be expected.

 

[Haywain]

This forum is very popular among almost anyone who is employed in a role that has anything to do with fares.

In fact, it would probably be considered be unwise for anyone in such a role not to view this forum!

I don't want to be too critical of your choice of words, but it isn't really a case of anyone spying; it is a case of them viewing a very useful resource, which is of course to be expected.

Indeed, and it proves very useful in getting problems resolved to the benefit of forum users and the general public, not just the TOCs. Not that that is a part of my life any more.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Not that that is a part of my life any more.

Unfortunately for me.

 

[Haywain]

Unfortunately for me.

Its good to know that I'm missed!

 

[RJ]

This forum is very popular among almost anyone who is employed in a role that has anything to do with fares.

In fact, it would probably be considered be unwise for anyone in such a role not to view this forum!

I don't want to be too critical of your choice of words, but it isn't really a case of anyone spying; it is a case of them viewing a very useful resource, which is of course to be expected.

Yes, people tend to be interested in reading things that relate to their job, especially if it's something they have influence over.

 

[Holly]

Yes, a visiting friend from overseas showed me that, as an example, if you walk up to the ticket office at Manchester airport railway station and ask for "A single to Chester" you will be sold the most expensive ticket for that journey.
There are lots of ways of making that short journey (short in distance, long in time) -
Airport-Piccadilly-Warrington-Chester
Airport-Crewe-Chester
Airport-Stockport-Northwich- Chester
Airport-Piccadilly-Lime Street-Hooton-Chester
The cheapest ticketing is a single Airport-Newton-le-Willows and an off-peak all day rover on Merseyrail. But the chances your will be offered that are just about nil, even if you ask about it.

 

[Haywain]

The cheapest ticketing is a single Airport-Newton-le-Willows and an off-peak all day rover on Merseyrail. But the chances your will be offered that are just about nil, even if you ask about it.

If you ask specifically for those tickets then that is what you should be sold. If, however, you ask for a single to Chester that is what you will get.