Ticket barriers closed with no staff

[marshmallow]

I had a situation recently where I got off a train with a valid ticket, however the barriers were closed, my ticket was rejected and no member of staff was available. I called out for a member of staff for several minutes but there was no one there, and if I waited any longer I would have missed my bus, so I tailgated someone and had to force the barrier not to close on me...I hated doing this as obviously it made me look like a fare evader but I felt that I had no other option. I was holding my valid ticket so if anyone had questioned me I could have shown this. I know that staff should not leave unattended barriers closed for health and safety reasons...what would you do in this situation?

 

[alistairlees]

Have you written to the TOC concerned to complain? This should really not happen.

 

[northwichcat]

I seem to recall remembering Bletchley station had the barriers shut and no staff around when I used it.

I've encountered the same problem twice at stations abroad (once in Spain, once in Portugal) and both times have tailgated someone with my ticket held clearly in view. I almost had the same problem at Putney Bridge Underground station when there were no visible staff present but after one barrier rejected my card twice, I managed to get through by going to a different barrier.

 

[marshmallow]

Have you written to the TOC concerned to complain? This should really not happen.

I haven't as I don't really want to tell them how I exited even though I had a valid ticket!

 

[BluePenguin]

Unbelievable. I know that train drivers and conductors have been on strike this week (for good reason) but I didn't know hat barrier staff decided to join them lol

You should not be embarrassed. The only reason why you had to exit the way you did was because of their fault! They should be the ones to say sorry as they were in the wrong. I don't know what the rules are about jumping over or passing through barriers with or without a valid ticket. However they can't expect you to just stand there waiting around all day one until one their incompetent staff turn up to do there job - or even leave the barriers open to prevent this happening!

I believe complaint is definitely in order. If anything it will hopefully prevent the same mistake happening again and will benefit other passengers using the station in the future.

If you would rather not tell them you tailgated your way out then in your message you could write "as the barriers were closed and there were no staff present, it inconvenienced a number of people who needed to leave the station quickly who had nobody to turn to if their tickets were rejected" or say you saw someone else have trouble.

Good luck

 

[robbeech]

I'm really hoping this scenario isn't coming as a shock to anyone. It is perfectly normal to see a line of closed barriers and no member of staff in sight, happens very often. It of course doesn't make it acceptable in any way, my argument is what if someone requires urgent medical assistance, and is stuck inside the gateline. There isn't always another passenger to tailgate, infact i think this situation is more likely to occur when the station isn't that busy but i have had closed barriers and no staff and a rejected ticket (perhaps a rover/ranger ticket that is perfectly valid but the barriers are not configured to accept them) and missed a train because of trying for almost 2 minutes to find a member of staff. I will now happily jump over a closed barrier if it poses no risk to equipment or other passengers where necessary if i am unable to solve these issues in a sensible amount of time and risk missing a connection.

 

[northwichcat]

I will now happily jump over a closed barrier if it poses no risk to equipment or other passengers where necessary if i am unable to solve these issues in a sensible amount of time and risk missing a connection.

Which of course isn't a suitable approach for all passengers to take!

 

[robbeech]

Which of course isn't a suitable approach for all passengers to take!

For those that know me they'll understand it's not something i find easy, so i fully agree.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't know what the rules are about jumping over or passing through barriers with or without a valid ticket.

It'll be a bylaw offence, irrespective of ticket validity.
Cue tangential debate about false imprisonnmemt...

 

[marshmallow]

It'll be a bylaw offence, irrespective of ticket validity

Seems to be true, looking at the byelaws (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf) one of them is "Where the entrance to or exit from any platform or station is via a manned or an automatic ticket barrier no person shall enter or leave the station, except with permission from an authorised person, without passing through the barrier in the correct manner".

Cue tangential debate about false imprisonnmemt...

Exactly, so what are we expected to do when there is no "authorised person" to obtain permission from and the "correct manner" doesn't work?

 

[robbeech]

Miss your last train and argue with them that they need to put you in a taxi home which they will not do without severe force.

 

[PeterC]

No help point to call for assistance?

 

[marshmallow]

No help point to call for assistance?

No there wasn't. And even if there was, is it reasonable for some passengers to be delayed in leaving the station just because their ticket doesn't work or the barriers aren't programmed to accept that ticket? Fair enough at stations where there is an intercom system with a camera to show your ticket designed for this, but not if you then have to wait for a member of staff to come from wherever they are.

 

[Mojo]

No there wasn't. And even if there was, is it reasonable for some passengers to be delayed in leaving the station just because their ticket doesn't work or the barriers aren't programmed to accept that ticket?

As you say, some train companies have a permenant arrangement whereby certain exits of a station have a gateline which is permanently remotely operated with a camera/voice link to a member of staff located somewhere else on the station. If this isn’t present then there should either be staff present on the gateline or the gateline is to be observed by staff in the adjacent ticket office or station office.

 

[Simon11]

What station was it?

 

[marshmallow]

What station was it?

Imperial Wharf

 

[Mojo]

Imperial Wharf

In my experience the majority of Overground stations have the gatelines monitored by staff in the ticket office, and this is how I remember the situation at Imperial Wharf. Was there nobody in the ticket office?

 

[marshmallow]

In my experience the majority of Overground stations have the gatelines monitored by staff in the ticket office, and this is how I remember the situation at Imperial Wharf. Was there nobody in the ticket office?

I was unable to see the ticket office from inside the barriered area. As the station map (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stati...tations-made-easy/imperial-wharf-station-plan) shows, there is a wall between the ticket office and the barriered area.

 

[Mojo]

I was unable to see the ticket office from inside the barriered area. As the station map (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stati...tations-made-easy/imperial-wharf-station-plan) shows, there is a wall between the ticket office and the barriered area.

The station plan does show that, however there is a window (not a ticket window however you can look into the ticket office) at each side of the ticket office, this is shown if you look at the photos.

 

[rg177]

I've had this at Wembley Central when I've gone to catch the 04:21 to Euston (next service in an hour) and my ticket was rejected by the closed gates.

Not wanting to vault the gates (though it was deserted anyway) I ended up shouting over to the office only for an unamused looking staff member to emerge let me through as slowly as possible. Made the service with seconds to spare!

At that time of day, I don't really see the point of shutting the gates and hiding.

 

[sefton]

I know that staff should not leave unattended barriers closed for health and safety reasons.

A good point.

In the event of the fire alarm being activated do the barriers go into 'Die Hard' mode and automatically open?

 

[marshmallow]

The station plan does show that, however there is a window (not a ticket window however you can look into the ticket office) at each side of the ticket office, this is shown if you look at the photos.

There must have been no one at the ticket office then, I can't remember exactly what I was able to see however I definitely couldn't see any members of staff and would have noticed if there had been anyone in the ticket office next to me.

At that time of day, I don't really see the point of shutting the gates and hiding.

Yes that is unacceptable. In any case, the fact that some ticket holders have to resort to tailgating people anyway proves that it is pretty pointless to leave barriers closed with no staff there anyway...if someone didn't have a ticket and wanted to get through, it wouldn't be hard. I'm starting to think that ticket barriers are a bad idea as they can make life difficult for honest people whilst not really stopping people getting through without a ticket if they want to; going off topic, I feel the same about security alarms in shops since I often set them off (after trying to work out why with a security guard once, it turned out to be because I had two contactless payment cards together in my wallet!) but most of the time no one bats an eyelid anyway. The worst thing is when I set it off when I enter a shop though and I can't face the embarrassment of leaving the shop as I know what will happen!

 

[otomous]

Unbelievable. I know that train drivers and conductors have been on strike this week (for good reason) but I didn't know hat barrier staff decided to join them lol

You should not be embarrassed. The only reason why you had to exit the way you did was because of their fault! They should be the ones to say sorry as they were in the wrong. I don't know what the rules are about jumping over or passing through barriers with or without a valid ticket. However they can't expect you to just stand there waiting around all day one until one their incompetent staff turn up to do there job - or even leave the barriers open to prevent this happening!

I believe complaint is definitely in order. If anything it will hopefully prevent the same mistake happening again and will benefit other passengers using the station in the future.

If you would rather not tell them you tailgated your way out then in your message you could write "as the barriers were closed and there were no staff present, it inconvenienced a number of people who needed to leave the station quickly who had nobody to turn to if their tickets were rejected" or say you saw someone else have trouble.

Good luck

Which train drivers were on strike this week?

 

[ashworth]

I've had this at Wembley Central when I've gone to catch the 04:21 to Euston (next service in an hour) and my ticket was rejected by the closed gates.

Not wanting to vault the gates (though it was deserted anyway) I ended up shouting over to the office only for an unamused looking staff member to emerge let me through as slowly as possible. Made the service with seconds to spare!

At that time of day, I don't really see the point of shutting the gates and hiding.

I remember having a similar problem a few years ago at West Brompton. I arrived back there one evening having travelled using a Southern Daysave Ticket which were always rejected and wouldn’t let me through. It’s a station that’s fairly quiet in the evenings and it took a good few minutes before I attracted someone’s attention in an office to let me through.

 

[[.n]]

I had a situation recently where I got off a train with a valid ticket, however the barriers were closed, my ticket was rejected and no member of staff was available. I called out for a member of staff for several minutes but there was no one there, and if I waited any longer I would have missed my bus, so I tailgated someone and had to force the barrier not to close on me...I hated doing this as obviously it made me look like a fare evader but I felt that I had no other option. I was holding my valid ticket so if anyone had questioned me I could have shown this. I know that staff should not leave unattended barriers closed for health and safety reasons...what would you do in this situation?

Happens a lot, I usually either tailgate as you did, or on occasion have had to force the gates open. Its totally irresponsible for gatelines to not be staffed (or open)

 

[greyman42]

I've had this at Wembley Central when I've gone to catch the 04:21 to Euston (next service in an hour) and my ticket was rejected by the closed gates.

Not wanting to vault the gates (though it was deserted anyway) I ended up shouting over to the office only for an unamused looking staff member to emerge let me through as slowly as possible. Made the service with seconds to spare!

At that time of day, I don't really see the point of shutting the gates and hiding.

You probably woke up the member of staff and that's why he emerged looking unamused.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I seem to recall remembering Bletchley station had the barriers shut and no staff around when I used it.

The side gate at Bletchley does not lock. LM have however now changed practice to leave the gates open properly when unattended, though.

As to the issue the OP mentioned, I had that at Elephant and Castle LU years ago, and the "emergency open barriers" button on the control panel was also stuck. Very poor (downright dangerous, indeed). I ended up barging out, nobody attended to the alarms.