Ticket checks on Thameslink

[21C101]

I’ve posted before on this, but 4 ways:

1) if you are waiting at a core station - the train will enter at speed and only start braking halfway along the platform. Or, if you are on a train and it enters the core, and you are stopped short of a station waiting for the platform to clear, you will accelerate at full pelt into the platform towards a red signal.

Like 4 SUB and 4EPB units used to when being driven.

Oh look, class 700 trains have clasp brakes (like 4SUBs and 4EPBs) as well as disc brakes.

If the 700s only had disc brakes (as per virtually every other train built since 1980) then such ATO operation in wet/leaf fall/icy weather would be very entertaining and keep RAIB in work.

 

[Bald Rick]

Thanks. What determines the decision on whether a particular train will be driven by a driver or run as ATO?

Principally if the driver has been trained or not. If they are trained in ETCS they have to use it, as it is the highest level of safety protection available. There are certain conditions that have to be met to use ATO, but generally drivers will use it if they have been trained to (why wouldn’t you).

Are there drivers who are not trained in ETCS driving through the core?

Yes, lots, although the number reduces every week.

Do they act in uniform? I was in Munich the other week and the inspectors on the U-bahn do their checks in casual clothes to avoid people recognising them and leaving the train.

Munich inspectors were doign that @ third of a century ago and I suspect long before that!

TL RPIs have been known to be in ‘mufti’, but usually they are in uniform.

Like 4 SUB and 4EPB units used to when being driven.

Oh look, class 700 trains have clasp brakes (like 4SUBs and 4EPBs) as well as disc brakes.

If the 700s only had disc brakes (as per virtually every other train built since 1980) then such ATO operation in wet/leaf fall/icy weather would be very entertaining and keep RAIB in work.

Last time I looked (or indeed anytime for the last 20 years) there wasn’t much in the way of ice or leaves between the north portal of Kings Cross tunnel and London Bridge.

Nevertheless there are still examples of the ATO misbehaving, albeit not due to adhesion and not in an unsafe manner. Drivers are not held responsible for such incidents.

 

[TUC]

I was on a Thameslink service when a school party got on. There was a ticket check partway through the journey. Around 10 pupils did not have Oyster cards and so were charged full fare. One or two without an Oyster could have slipped the teacher's notice, but 10 of them?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

You do see checks at random times - and now and then in plain clothes. They generally do good business - especially in the "legal" first. !

 

[Edsmith]

I've seen a few ticket checks between Stevenage and Finsbury Park but they seem very rare elsewhere on the network.

 

[adamedwards]

This might be a silly question but how do they do ticket checks it you're traveling on conctactless payment? E.g. St Pancras Thameslink - Elephant and Castle?

The inspectors have a little gadget thingy which reads the card.
I see ticket inspections quite regualrly across Great Northern and Thameslink.
As for 1st class it should be abolished on Thameslink and GN as the abuse of it is very high.

 

[riceuten]

They seem concentrated at the train stations themselves rather than on train. It must be years since I was checked on train, and they seemed completely flummoxed by my (then relatively new) KeyGo smartcard. At Stevenage, they concentrate themselves at the entrance/exits to the lifts, much used to fare dodge getting onto platforms 1/2 and 3/4. The last time I was checked there - the staff member was stood between me and the tapping out facility, and I had to explain it would be better if I he could let me tap out, then he could check my ticket.

I guess it must depend on when and where you travel. For the last three Sundays there has been a ticket check taking place on the 1245 Thameslink departure from Peterborough, and on all three occasions the inspector/RPI has been issuing someone with a penalty fare as I board at Biggleswade.

This area always seemed to be one of the problem areas for fare dodging - it got better slightly when ticket gates were installed at Sandy, but I am reliably informed they are left open most of the day. One of the TOC staff said they had a lot of ASB on this stretch - presumably there's nothing better to do in Mid-Beds than to ride up and down on the trains and occasionally pull the communications cord (happened countless times, apparently)

 

[Haywain]

The last time I was checked there - the staff member was stood between me and the tapping out facility, and I had to explain it would be better if I he could let me tap out, then he could check my ticket.

You were wrong - checking before you tap out establishes whether you have correctly tapped in.

 

[riceuten]

You were wrong - checking before you tap out establishes whether you have correctly tapped in.

They were able to check the completed journey afterwards and whether I had indeed tapped in.

 

[SE%Traveller]

Got checked for the first time in 11 Years on the train to work today (between Elephant and Blackfriars)

 

[Sussex Ben]

As for 1st class it should be abolished on Thameslink and GN as the abuse of it is very high.

Or the abuse could be tackled by better enforcement. RPIs could easily pay for themselves by more frequently blitzing 1st class between East Croydon and the core.

 

[Bishopstone]

Or the abuse could be tackled by better enforcement. RPIs could easily pay for themselves by more frequently blitzing 1st class between East Croydon and the core.

I believe tackling misuse of 1st class between East Croydon and the core has, for years, been actively avoided as too controversial, too dangerous, or both. (Ditto Southern between Victoria/London Bridge and East Croydon).

Also, if those found with Standard tickets are given the opportunity to vacate 1st, in the first instance - as suggested by a post earlier in the thread - then additional RPI resource wouldn't pay for itself.

 

[Facing Back]

I believe tackling misuse of 1st class between East Croydon and the core has, for years, been actively avoided as too controversial, too dangerous, or both. (Ditto Southern between Victoria/London Bridge and East Croydon).

Also, if those found with Standard tickets are given the opportunity to vacate 1st, in the first instance - as suggested by a post earlier in the thread - then additional RPI resource wouldn't pay for itself.

Why controversial? Because the train is full and there are no seats anywhere else?

 

[Bishopstone]

Why controversial? Because the train is full and there are no seats anywhere else?

Mostly this, in the peaks. Also:

The demographic of rail users from Croydon is different to that commuting from Sussex. A 'purge' would need to be managed very carefully, or else you'd end-up with a perfect clickbait article for social media.

And:

Precedent. Misuse of 1st class from Croydon has been overlooked for so long that I suspect some of the miscreants believe, genuinely, that 1st class isn't in operation. And some confusion is understandable, with the 700s being declassified at the rear and the 377s from Caterham/Tattenham etc being declassified throughout whilst on Metro work. Any campaign would therefore need to be preceded by local publicity by way of fair warning.

With the railway having limited resources and other priorities, it's not hard to see why this situation has been allowed to persist, and will continue.

 

[Railcar]

I'm confused. My impression (which I've relayed to others) is that first class on Southern's metro services is declassified. This has been reinforced by the situation over the last few years since there have been no RPIs operating on metro services, well, on all the Victoria/London Bridge trains that I use, many times during a year. I see a lot of cleaning staff moving through the trains rather than RPIs. Agreed that on the long-distance/coastal services there are ticket checks by the OBS on most journeys. Never had a ticket check on a Thameslink to Brighton or on my regular journeys through the core, from Finsbury Park to London Bridge.

 

[Sussex Ben]

I believe tackling misuse of 1st class between East Croydon and the core has, for years, been actively avoided as too controversial, too dangerous, or both. (Ditto Southern between Victoria/London Bridge and East Croydon).

Also, if those found with Standard tickets are given the opportunity to vacate 1st, in the first instance - as suggested by a post earlier in the thread - then additional RPI resource wouldn't pay for itself.

I have over the last couple of years seen plenty of penalty fares issued for misuse of 1st between East Croydon and London Bridge (one train I frequently used saw semi-regular checks), and the main excuse offered was that there weren’t any seats in standard as opposed to passengers not realising 1st was in operation (although the odd person tried it on).

Means it can be done, but for whatever reason most of my ticket checks seem to just be south of Three Bridges, when the vast majority do hold valid 1st tickets.

 

[londonteacher]

I’ve been checked between Chatham and Gravesend a few times. Usually in southeastern uniform. It’s always great fun seeing people move down the train and jump off at Rochester or Strood before being caught!

 

[Mag_seven]

Ticket checks can happen on any TOC at any time. There is nothing to discuss here.