Ticket Checks

[gimmea50anyday]

The booths at Lime Street were pointless anyway. It's very unusual to work a train from Lime Street without selling at least one ticket.

Just one? I often sell quite a few on the 17:10 NCL. Especially when people insist on buying tickets for the 17:14 or 17:18 northern services. Maybe you are targeting the wrong trains.....

 

[dk1]

am just saying that's when I travelled! I've travelled other days and I've still not had ticket checks, but I have noticed on the 2107 Euston to Lime street they have ticket check before you board the train.

It's always good to see that. Amazing how many people are turned away with APs for the wrong train. How many would've come out with tosh like "bloke on the platform said it was ok" if they'd have boarded?

 

[ScouserGirl]

It's always good to see that. Amazing how many people are turned away with APs for the wrong train. How many would've come out with tosh like "bloke on the platform said it was ok" if they'd have boarded?

I know yeah! But the trains from Liverpool to Euston can lack ticket checks I've noticed, GWR are on the ball with ticket checks every time I've used them, they check the tickets

 

[Kite159]

I know yeah! But the trains from Liverpool to Euston can lack ticket checks I've noticed, GWR are on the ball with ticket checks every time I've used them, they check the tickets

Virgin trains generally lack ticket checks in standard class.

 

[ScouserGirl]

Virgin trains generally lack ticket checks in standard class.

I have noticed that, I've had a 1st class tickets before too and I've not had it checked there either! I think VT do lack doing ticket checks!

 

[yorkie]

i was extremely concerned of getting a penalty fair for being on the wrong train.

Scotrail do not operate a Penalty Fare scheme.

Penalty Fares may not be charged if your ticket is invalid due to a time restriction; if there's no disruption and you are at fault, then a new ticket at the appropriate fare, including Railcard discounts where applicable, is charged.

 

[stuartyoung]

Scotrail do not operate a Penalty Fare scheme.

Penalty Fares may not be charged if your ticket is invalid due to a time restriction; if there's no disruption and you are at fault, then a new ticket at the appropriate fare, including Railcard discounts where applicable, is charged.

I was only aware of Scotrail, not having a penalty fare scheme, until the last week or so. All of my rail journeys in Scotland have been prebooked, except two.

 

[6Gman]

I know yeah! But the trains from Liverpool to Euston can lack ticket checks I've noticed, GWR are on the ball with ticket checks every time I've used them, they check the tickets

As mentioned upthread, last Liverpool-Euston I travelled on (Tuesday) tickets were being checked before we reached Edge Hill!

 

[323235]

Nice idea - but how long does a full check on a well-filled 11car Pendolino take? Bearing in mind the questions, the complaints, the fares to issue and any operational issues that arise.

Not easy. But would agree things are patchy - round here LM are pretty good, as are Northern. Virgin can be very lacklustre.

I was on a busy Sunday morning Pendolino out of Manchester sat next to the train managers office and the Train Manager was back after a full ticket inspection at his office in about 20-25 minutes. so he would probably have taken about 30-35 on an 11 car.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I find I'm less likely to be checked on a 2 car train than on a Pendolino - this is because the 2 car train has stops every 3-4 minutes so it's impossible for the guard to check the whole train in between operating the doors.

Why is it so impossible? I have seen guards get down a whole 323 in the 7 minutes between Manchester and Stockport on a well filled train. It really depends on the loadings, where the train is coming from, whether there are ticket purchasing facilities how many people they can see that determine whether it is possible. I have seen guards get 1 1/2 carriages done in 3 - 4 minutes between Macclesfield and Prestbury.

I feel we are making excuses for some staff by saying it is impossible to check a large proportion of 2 car train in 3-4 minutes because it just isn't always the case.

A well filled Pacer from Manchester - Chester can have the entire train checked before it reaches Stockport 8 minutes later in my experience.

 

[ScouserGirl]

As mentioned upthread, last Liverpool-Euston I travelled on (Tuesday) tickets were being checked before we reached Edge Hill!

must just depend on the train manager I have had my tickets checked with virgin before but that's mostly when leaving London, I have tickets checked when getting on the train at lime street before

 

[crehld]

must just depend on the train manager I have had my tickets checked with virgin before but that's mostly when leaving London, I have tickets checked when getting on the train at lime street before

I would say that staff willingness to undertake a ticket check is a significant variable.

 

[Matt Taylor]

There's more to it than that though, despite my best efforts I was unable to get the whole train checked on my 'fast' Fratton-Woking yesterday as the previous train had been cancelled and I had lots of people on board with advances from Euston, Kings Cross etc that required endorsement to travel on later services.

 

[ScouserGirl]

I would say that staff willingness to undertake a ticket check is a significant variable.

yeah it is as some time before we have even reached Runcorn my ticket has been checked other times it hasn't been checked at all

 

[Loop & Link]

deleted

 

[mbreckers]

Just saw a tweet from a user on here about a member of staff doing a ticket check not wearing the right item of clothing, complaining it wasn't part of the uniform!!! Did it really affect them that much? Too funny. Guard would have been better staying in the back cab, or would that have warranted a complaint as well?

There was a photo on Twitter yesterday aimed at ScotRail from a passenger complaining about the colour of lipstick a member of staff was wearing at Queen Street

 

[tsr]

Part of the key to a successful ticket check in my experience is the judgment call about when to stop checking.

It's all very well checking tickets up to the last second before a station, but a station call not only has to take precedence for obvious and well-worn safety and punctuality reasons, but it also offers up a multitude of distractions whilst dealing with an incorrect ticket / ticket sale / fare dodger etc. The potential for somebody to walk away and sit somewhere totally different, or start tearing their receipt off the PIN pad themselves and jam it up, or decide not to pay an excess, means that there is a point at which you have to really stop checking because you won't reasonably have time to do much about any validity problems or complete a sale before the next stop.

There are exceptions to this rule. I work on some routes where it is so commonplace to renew/buy tickets onboard that passengers can easily be trusted with a Thyron PIN pad. There are also times where checking as you pull into a station is OK because you don't need to make any additional announcements, the station is staffed so any fare dodgers can be escorted away, or something like that. But often, especially on lines where you are effectively the only member of customer-facing staff, a ticket check can throw up a whole lot of things you need to deal with but can't when you are arriving at a station and need to release the doors and/or dispatch.

 

[Antman]

BTP/GWR operation at West Drayton today, quite a few caught without tickets!

 

[Parallel]

Two GWR RPIs were on my train too this morning. At least three penalty fares were issued within a 15 minute journey!

 

[iainbhx]

My chances of being checked on the 06:39 Spring Road-Moor Street are about 1 in 5, however, there some guards are keener than others. One in particular will issue a ticket even when pulling into a station and door releases seem to come second.

My chance of being checked on the 07:01 New Street - Crewe are about 66%, if I get the 07:15 New Street - Crewe it is more like 100% - which is odd because during my first year I went three months without a check and that was before either New Street or Crewe had barriers. Some of the VT checks are extremely perfunctory, one this week said thanks and walked on before I'd even unfolded the ticket wallet. Most I think only look at the date.

On the 16:49 Crewe - Smethwick Galton Bridge, the chance is about 50% of a check. On the 17:54 Smethwick Galton Bridge to Spring Road, the chance is probably about 5% and only before Snow Hill. However, a small horde of RPI's has been known to lurk at Smethwick a few times this winter.

My best ever check was on Cross Country between Bristol Parkway and New Street. I had a Llwynypia - Spring Road Off Peak Any Permitted, he cheerfully admitted he didn't know where either station was but it was probably OK.

My second best was the VT train manager who tried to claim that my Spring Road - Crewe season wasn't valid on his service because the shortest route was through Snow Hill not New Street and I'd have to get off at Wolverhampton.

 

[crehld]

Part of the key to a successful ticket check in my experience is the judgment call about when to stop checking.

It's all very well checking tickets up to the last second before a station, but a station call not only has to take precedence for obvious and well-worn safety and punctuality reasons, but it also offers up a multitude of distractions whilst dealing with an incorrect ticket / ticket sale / fare dodger etc. The potential for somebody to walk away and sit somewhere totally different, or start tearing their receipt off the PIN pad themselves and jam it up, or decide not to pay an excess, means that there is a point at which you have to really stop checking because you won't reasonably have time to do much about any validity problems or complete a sale before the next stop.

There are exceptions to this rule. I work on some routes where it is so commonplace to renew/buy tickets onboard that passengers can easily be trusted with a Thyron PIN pad. There are also times where checking as you pull into a station is OK because you don't need to make any additional announcements, the station is staffed so any fare dodgers can be escorted away, or something like that. But often, especially on lines where you are effectively the only member of customer-facing staff, a ticket check can throw up a whole lot of things you need to deal with but can't when you are arriving at a station and need to release the doors and/or dispatch.

It's for this reason I'd advocate a ticket examiner to check / sell tickets and do the customer service side of things, and then leave the guard to be a guard. The train companies seem quite vocal in telling us how prevalent fare evasion and ticketless travel are, yet, paradoxically, don't seem to think it's a big enough problem to actually do something about it.

 

[Antman]

It's for this reason I'd advocate a ticket examiner to check / sell tickets and do the customer service side of things, and then leave the guard to be a guard. The train companies seem quite vocal in telling us how prevalent fare evasion and ticketless travel are, yet, paradoxically, don't seem to think it's a big enough problem to actually do something about it.

I can't imagine employing another person would be cost effective on most trains?

 

[Sleepy]

Ticket checks on a route with mostly barriered stations result in 95% of passengers holding a ticket, the one a guard finds will often just refuse to pay and TOC will not thank you for delaying trains to await assistance - this only encourages the not worth the hassle attitude of some.

 

[HowardGWR]

I can't imagine employing another person would be cost effective on most trains?

Well, what is the average wage per hour of an RPI? From what I have read here on how many they catch, it would seem that their wage would be earned in minutes. Surely an analysis from inspectors' reports would indicate to TOCs which services exist, where the maximum return can be expected?

 

[Master29]

I had noticed GWR are stepping up their ticket checking. Advanced seem to be what they've been targeting. I've lost count in the past the times I`ve never had a ticket check between Paddington and Bodmin Parkway in the past but every time now they are checking both tickets and railcards. Don`t get me wrong, it`s a good thing too. Must have been brought to their attention I reckon.

 

[317666]

I remember once catching a VT service from Manchester to Euston a few years ago, before departure there were about five announcements from (presumably) the TM saying which tickets were/weren't valid, please make sure you have a valid ticket etc. Throughout the journey there was no check at all!

 

[Kite159]

Ticket checks on a route with mostly barriered stations result in 95% of passengers holding a ticket, the one a guard finds will often just refuse to pay and TOC will not thank you for delaying trains to await assistance - this only encourages the not worth the hassle attitude of some.

95% of passengers holding a ticket, doesn't always mean it's a valid ticket for the service they are on

Either an advance ticket where they are travelling on the wrong train (i.e. a Northern advance between Liverpool South Parkway & Manchester Oxford Road and travelling on a TPE/EMT fast service), a random ticket to the first station (i.e. New Street to Five Ways)