Ticket Machine at Alfreton will not sell cheaper Northern Rail Tickets

[Doctor Fegg]

GWR have put a sticker on their S&B machines saying "For the full range of fares, use the A-Z destination finder". It's a pretty poor workaround for the terrible UI but I guess it works as a legal disclaimer.

 

[Snow1964]

That's basically as I suspected then - you have to dig a bit into these older S&B machines to get the full range of fares.

Unless the Quick pick destinations on front page are dynamic (chosen by reference to most recent sales volumes) then clearly someone has manually decided to put Nottingham (any operator) on there and exclude Nottingham (Northern only)

Which rather makes it factual that the cheapest fare was deliberately hidden and made hard to find, compared to more expensive fare which was made easy to find. This is the sort of thing passenger watchdogs (if they still exist) should be kicking up a stink about.

 

[SuspectUsual]

Unless the Quick pick destinations on front page are dynamic (chosen by reference to most recent sales volumes) then clearly someone has manually decided to put Nottingham (any operator) on there and exclude Nottingham (Northern only)

Well. “Someone” could presumably be the TOC that manages the station, ie EMR.

 

[Skymonster]

Sheffield, Chesterfield and Nottingham all have lower ”Northern-only” fares from Alfreton. While I didn’t check them all on the TVM, I’d be willing to bet that in each case the quick ticket being offered is the more expensive “Any Permitted”. As EMR runs the station and provides the TVM, I’m not surprised. Mind you there would only be enough screen real estate to display very small TOC restriction alongside or below the quick ticket options anyway, and I’d bet few customers would read (or even notice) such footnotes leading to even more hoo-har when customers boarded the wrong train with a TOC-restricted ticket. At least displaying and by default selling the “Any Permitted” will lead to fewer adverse encounters with Revenue staff - even if the OP and a few others end up feeling cheated when they find they’ve paid more than strictly necessary if they travel on Northern. If I was buying a return I’d prefer the “Any Permitted” anyway - for a couple of quid extra the flexibility to return on any train would be worth it.

 

[Wallsendmag]

GWR have put a sticker on their S&B machines saying "For the full range of fares, use the A-Z destination finder". It's a pretty poor workaround for the terrible UI but I guess it works as a legal disclaimer.

New S&B GUI coming soon

 

[LowLevel]

Unless the Quick pick destinations on front page are dynamic (chosen by reference to most recent sales volumes) then clearly someone has manually decided to put Nottingham (any operator) on there and exclude Nottingham (Northern only)

Which rather makes it factual that the cheapest fare was deliberately hidden and made hard to find, compared to more expensive fare which was made easy to find. This is the sort of thing passenger watchdogs (if they still exist) should be kicking up a stink about.

I used to know whether they were dynamic or predetermined and I can't actually remember.

 

[John R]

The easiest way to resolve this would be to abolish walk up fares which are only valid on one TOC. It would prevent a lot of penalty fares (and worse) and given all fare box revenue goes to the treasury seems unnecessary.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The easiest way to resolve this would be to abolish walk up fares which are only valid on one TOC. It would prevent a lot of penalty fares (and worse) and given all fare box revenue goes to the treasury seems unnecessary.

That is both reasonable and sensible. For both of those reasons it will never happen.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, on what valid grounds, if any, can the OP further appeal the Penalty Fare that they recently received?

 

[Haywain]

The easiest way to resolve this would be to abolish walk up fares which are only valid on one TOC. It would prevent a lot of penalty fares (and worse) and given all fare box revenue goes to the treasury seems unnecessary.

That would have quite an impact on the business case of the open access operators.

 

[WesternLancer]

Sheffield, Chesterfield and Nottingham all have lower ”Northern-only” fares from Alfreton. While I didn’t check them all on the TVM, I’d be willing to bet that in each case the quick ticket being offered is the more expensive “Any Permitted”. As EMR runs the station and provides the TVM, I’m not surprised. Mind you there would only be enough screen real estate to display very small TOC restriction alongside or below the quick ticket options anyway, and I’d bet few customers would read (or even notice) such footnotes leading to even more hoo-har when customers boarded the wrong train with a TOC-restricted ticket. At least displaying and by default selling the “Any Permitted” will lead to fewer adverse encounters with Revenue staff - even if the OP and a few others end up feeling cheated when they find they’ve paid more than strictly necessary if they travel on Northern. If I was buying a return I’d prefer the “Any Permitted” anyway - for a couple of quid extra the flexibility to return on any train would be worth it.

I agree with this.

So, on what valid grounds, if any, can the OP further appeal the Penalty Fare that they recently received?

Yes, this is the numb of the point the OP needs advice on.

Would it be possible / worth appealing to say that the machine 'did not appear to offer the ticket I was trying to buy so I had to opt to exercise my right to buy at the next available opportunity'

But I note the 1st stage Appeal has already been rejected, and I am not sure this would work at 2nd stage but maybe worth a try.

And I assume the ticket office was actually closed at the time of travel.

 

[AlterEgo]

So, on what valid grounds, if any, can the OP further appeal the Penalty Fare that they recently received?

I can see only technical defences relating to signage available at this stage?

 

[John R]

That would have quite an impact on the business case of the open access operators.

Agree, and I'm not sure it could be imposed on them. But where the treasury gets the farebox it would make sense.

 

[Hadders]

The easiest way to resolve this would be to abolish walk up fares which are only valid on one TOC. It would prevent a lot of penalty fares (and worse) and given all fare box revenue goes to the treasury seems unnecessary.

If that happened many good vaue fares would disappear, so be careful what you wish for.

I do agree that TOC only tickets that offer only a very small saving over the Any Permitted fare should go.

 

[robbeech]

I used to know whether they were dynamic or predetermined and I can't actually remember.

Even if they do, once they’re settled into what people buy it would take a lot to change it.

The easiest way to resolve this would be to abolish walk up fares which are only valid on one TOC. It would prevent a lot of penalty fares (and worse) and given all fare box revenue goes to the treasury seems unnecessary.

This would be fine apart from the massive price increase to many people’s journeys. If we used this example where a passenger always gets the same trains to and from work and can save £2-3 per day, this adds up over time, but look at York to Newcastle, £33.40 for a TPE day return vs £47.30 for the any permitted.

 

[island]

The penalty fare officer on the day thought I had grounds for appeal.

Then why did they issue the Penalty Fare? Is the question!

I think this will be the usual case of the collector saying "you can appeal it" or other form of words designed to comfort the passenger and de-escalate the situation rather than any sort of assurance that an appeal would be successful.