Ticket office inside barriers

[johncrossley]

I notice Rochdale ticket office is inside the barriers. How does that work? Do they only sell tickets in advance for people who have passed through the barrier? Or, for example, people renewing their season ticket on the way home?

 

[realemil]

The ticket office is meant to be used for people who do not have a valid ticket, and who need to buy one to get out of the barriers.

Outside of the barriers, you have the TVMs - and sometimes, if you ask the gateline, they'll let you through to buy from the ticket office.

Strange system!

 

[miklcct]

There is one at Gospel Oak and called "excess fares".

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Is the situation similar at Blackburn?

 

[6Gman]

The ticket office is meant to be used for people who do not have a valid ticket, and who need to buy one to get out of the barriers.

Outside of the barriers, you have the TVMs - and sometimes, if you ask the gateline, they'll let you through to buy from the ticket office.

Strange system!

Weird!

What if the TVMs don't sell the ticket you need?

 

[mikeg]

Very strange indeed. I did ask when last there what if someone wants a ticket the tvm didn't sell and was informed you'd be sent up to the ticket office

 

[skyhigh]

There is one at Gospel Oak and called "excess fares".

An excess fares window within the barriers is very common.

The only ticket office being within the barriered area (like Rochdale) rather than outside, is very unusual.

 

[Kite159]

An excess fares window within the barriers is very common.

The only ticket office being within the barriered area (like Rochdale) rather than outside, is very unusual.

Agreed, quite common at other London terminus & other large stations, especially in Northern land where passengers can exchange "Promise to Pay" vouchers or other reasons why they couldn't buy before hand.

Although not somewhere you want to go to if you don't have a decent reason why you didn't buy before you board (as RPIs can wait in that area, especially at Leeds) as "I was running late and didn't have time to buy beforehand" won't wash.

 

[Par]

When I was there last week, passengers were being allowed to enter through the barriers and purchase at the ticket office.

The layout can’t help, the platforms and ticket office being elevated and up two flights of stairs, the ticket office being directly facing the top of said stairs and with no real alternative position for the barriers (which are in the subway) and these being a relatively recent addition.

Not sure another solution is possible with this set up?

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's spectacularly pointless. Ask to be let through to pay at the ticket office and then don't.

 

[johncrossley]

I suppose people arriving at Rochdale need to have a ticket to exit the barrier, so for arriving passengers the barriers have some purpose.

 

[Par]

It's spectacularly pointless. Ask to be let through to pay at the ticket office and then don't.

I‘m not sure there is an alternative position for the barriers at Rochdale? The ”concourse”, if you can call it that, at the top of the stairs is very small. The exits from this are narrow and I don’t think a set of barriers on both through platforms is practical.

Re-locating the ticket office to the subway might be possible, but it’s all very tight.

Worth rembering too that the majority of passengers will be ending their journeys at barriered stations.

Admittedly its all sub-optimal.

 

[_toommm_]

I‘m not sure there is an alternative position for the barriers at Rochdale? The ”concourse”, if you can call it that, at the top of the stairs is very small. The exits from this are narrow and I don’t think a set of barriers on both through platforms is practical.

Re-locating the ticket office to the subway might be possible, but it’s all very tight.

The smallest set of barriers I can think of (and I may be imagining things here) is Rotherham Central. Again, I may be imagining things, but I swear the station is now barriered with just two barriers in the tiny entrance/exit.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I‘m not sure there is an alternative position for the barriers at Rochdale? The ”concourse”, if you can call it that, at the top of the stairs is very small. The exits from this are narrow and I don’t think a set of barriers on both through platforms is practical.

Re-locating the ticket office to the subway might be possible, but it’s all very tight.

Worth rembering too that the majority of passengers will be ending their journeys at barriered stations.

Admittedly its all sub-optimal.

To be honest anywhere else it'd probably just be accepted that you couldn't gate the station without a substantial rebuild involving a street level building (there are a few like that, e.g. try gating half the Merseyrail suburban stations) and just mount periodic revenue stings instead. Most passengers are going to be going to Manchester Victoria which is gated so you'll catch them there (that being the Merseyrail principle of only doing revenue checks at the central Liverpool stations plus a couple of others and the very occasional on train check). Some might short-fare, but it's not like there are lots of places you could claim to have travelled from instead. Ormskirk, for instance, could easily have been gated at the rebuild but presumably it wasn't considered worthwhile.

Realistically the problem will be solved when (and I think it clearly is a when) the ticket office closes, like most others also likely will. Contactless will kill it off once implemented.

 

[Kite159]

The smallest set of barriers I can think of (and I may be imagining things here) is Rotherham Central. Again, I may be imagining things, but I swear the station is now barriered with just two barriers in the tiny entrance/exit.

Which must be a nightmare with dealing with tram tickets

 

[geoffk]

Is the situation similar at Blackburn?

Yes. Ticket office on the island platform and barriers in the subway.

 

[eastwestdivide]

The smallest set of barriers I can think of (and I may be imagining things here) is Rotherham Central. Again, I may be imagining things, but I swear the station is now barriered with just two barriers in the tiny entrance/exit.

No barriers at Rotherham a couple of weeks ago! Were you thinking of somewhere else?

 

[_toommm_]

No barriers at Rotherham a couple of weeks ago! Were you thinking of somewhere else?

Must have been a fever dream then; not sure what happened there.

 

[Andyh82]

Yes. Ticket office on the island platform and barriers in the subway.

And in the case of Blackburn I can’t see why they didn’t move the ticket office downstairs. The entrance hall seems to be surrounded by blanked off rooms that presumably were once occupied by stuff which could house a ticket office

 

[TUC]

It does sound from the above that the primary consideration has been where the barriers would fit, regardless of whether it is a totally illogical place.

 

[rishtonlad]

With regards to Blackburn when the station was rebuilt there was no barriers so was moved upstairs from the main subway. The barriers are a very later addition. I personally have never had a problem being let through.

 

[30907]

With regards to Blackburn when the station was rebuilt there was no barriers so was moved upstairs from the main subway. The barriers are a very later addition. I personally have never had a problem being let through.

And platform 4 didn't exist.
There are TVMs in the main entrance, and IIRC at the other end of the subway.

 

[plugwash]

It's spectacularly pointless. Ask to be let through to pay at the ticket office and then don't.

Lots of half-assed ticket barriers on the network, presumablly because the budget isn't there to rebuild/redesign stations around barriers. This is the first time I've heard of this particular type of half-assery but I don't think it's fundamentally worse than stations which have lifts bypassing the barriers.

I would imagine even half-assed ticket barriers help with extracting money from the "pay when challanged" crowd though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would imagine even half-assed ticket barriers help with extracting money from the "pay when challanged" crowd though.

They certainly do. It seems to have stopped now, but LNR at one point had barriers closed at most stations for the full period of service, staffed by security guards, who were not in any way revenue trained and so could do nothing other than direct people to the TVM and hope they used it if they rocked up without a ticket. But the presence of that barrier and the unknown of what might happen would put most casual evaders off.

 

[duncanp]

Unlike most major stations, all three sets of toilets at Birmingham New Street are also inside the barriers.

Whilst it can be annoying at times, it does keep the undesirable elements out.

There is also a ticket office inside the barriers (in the Red Lounge) for people who need to pay a fare.

I can be handy for people who have arrived on a long distance service, but who need to buy another ticket for a local journey, as it means they don't have to exit through the barriers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unlike most major stations, all three sets of toilets at Birmingham New Street are also inside the barriers.

Whilst it can be annoying at times, it does keep the undesirable elements out.

It does. Euston's toilets have been utterly disgusting since they were made free (they always stank due to inadequate ventilation, but they are now increasingly vandalised and dirty due to misuse), and Charing Cross's just feel unsafe with the characters you get down there. I would advocate a return to a charge, perhaps also with ticket gate features fitted so ticketholders can get in for free and contactless payment accepted, as I was always more bothered about making sure I had a 20p and a 10p just in case than actually paying (my view is the same for car parking).

If you want a free wee at New St without travelling, though, the shopping centre toilets are available upstairs. And the gateline is open half the time anyway.

 

[sk688]

They certainly do. It seems to have stopped now, but LNR at one point had barriers closed at most stations for the full period of service, staffed by security guards, who were not in any way revenue trained and so could do nothing other than direct people to the TVM and hope they used it if they rocked up without a ticket. But the presence of that barrier and the unknown of what might happen would put most casual evaders off.

Milton Keynes Central is still staffed for the full period of service , IIRC

 

[Bletchleyite]

Milton Keynes Central is still staffed for the full period of service , IIRC

There are security staff but the gateline is back to very often being left open in the late evening. Same with Euston.

To be honest, while MKC-Bletchley/Wolverton late at night was known by some locals as "the free train", you'd get the majority of revenue just by keeping Euston's gateline closed 24/7, as the vast majority of people are travelling to/from there. Merseyrail is similar - almost everyone is going to/from Liverpool, so gating the intermediates isn't really worth it for the small amount of revenue you'd catch.

 

[Class800]

Unlike most major stations, all three sets of toilets at Birmingham New Street are also inside the barriers.

Whilst it can be annoying at times, it does keep the undesirable elements out.

There is also a ticket office inside the barriers (in the Red Lounge) for people who need to pay a fare.

I can be handy for people who have arrived on a long distance service, but who need to buy another ticket for a local journey, as it means they don't have to exit through the barriers.

Are there not toilets separately for the Grand Central shopping centre?

 

[Ken H]

Long ago there was an arrangement called a Passimeter. This was basically the ticket office with 2 windows, one for exiting the station, one for leaving. So the ticket office person checked tickets and issued them. There was one at Berwick upon Tweed. Think there was one at Lancaster.
Surely something like this could be created on barrier lines for non standard exits/entrances?