Ticket question - Haywards Heath to Chester

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Saperstein, 22 Jan 2020.

  1. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Hi,

    I’m travelling Haywards Heath to Chester today.

    The tickets I hold are:

    Haywards Heath to Runcorn Adult Standard class with Disabled Persons Railcard @ £36.45

    Valid on Southern & West Midlands Trains only. Restriction C0.

    Runcorn to Chester Adult Standard class with Disabled Persons Railcard @ £3.85

    Valid on Transport for Wales only.

    I wish to avoid the tube and the journey from Crewe to Runcorn and back.

    What tickets do I need in addition to those held please?

    Thanks.
     
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  3. alistairlees

    alistairlees Established Member

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    Are these Advance tickets?
     
  4. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    No just normal singles.

    Thanks.
     
  5. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    I had it in my mind that it said Victoria somewhere on the tickets but it doesn’t, that’s only in the itinerary.

    So I guess I’m ok catching the Southern service and changing to West Midland at Milton Keynes?

    Thanks.
     
  6. alistairlees

    alistairlees Established Member

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    The Southern / WMT ticket is valid via Kensington Olympia. Travel:
    Haywards Heath - Clapham Junction (Southern)
    Clapham Junction - Milton Keynes (Southern)
    Milton Keynes - Crewe (WMT, getting off early; you might need to change on the way)

    Then buy a Crewe to Chester single.
     
  7. supervalkoinen

    supervalkoinen Member

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    Regarding Runcorn - Chester - TfW only.

    I would guess this is only valid on the hourly direct TfW Liverpool-Runcorn-Chester.
     
  8. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    OK thanks.
     
  9. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Yep, normally wouldn’t mind the extra journey /change at Runcorn but got some heavy luggage today.
     
  10. supervalkoinen

    supervalkoinen Member

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    Is it an extra journey/change? WM stop at Runcorn northbound and it would then be one change across to the southbound for the Chester train.
     
  11. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Saves a change at Crewe, change at Runcorn instead but takes a good hour longer as it’s a stopper going via Brum.

    Can’t have everything I suppose. ;)
     
  12. supervalkoinen

    supervalkoinen Member

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    Understood. Also, more connections Crewe-Chester than the hourly Runcorn-Chester.
     
  13. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    You will find a good hourly set of connections from Haywards Heath changing at Clapham Junction onto the hourly Milton Keynes Central service and connect there onto the WMT service to Crewe.

    I notice the Any Permitted ticket from Runcorn to Chester is valid via Crewe. Therefore, provided the OP sticks to their TOC restriction of TfW Only I would suggest you finish short on your first ticket at Crewe. Then use your second ticket to travel from Crewe to Chester but make sure you carch a TfW service.

    Have you purchased your tickets yet or are they from retailers that allow a fee free change or refund? I ask that because a ticket to Crewe is slightly cheaper then to Runcorn.
     
  14. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Thanks for all the replies...

    I was actually on the Victoria train at the time of my first post and ending up changing at East Croydon as opposed to Clapham Junction because I figured there would be more seats available from ECR.

    All went well until Milton Keynes and Northampton...

    advice from WMT on the ground (NMP) ended up costing me a further £38.35 at (MKC) yes really! And I was 1H24M late arriving at Chester.

    Not withstanding the delay I’m not ready to write off the best part of 40 quid.

    Is it best to start a new thread about this?

    Thanks!
     
  15. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    What happened?
     
  16. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Basically the MKC to CRE service (1621) was so busy I was unable to board it.

    The next one I did manage but it broke down at Northampton...

    The following service offered at Northampton was an impossibility and I was advised to double back to MKC and join an Avanti West Coast service to Chester.

    I went to the booking office at MKC to make sure and the girl excessed my tickets but charged me a further £38.35. She said I can claim it back from WMT.

    I’m the event I underwent no ticket check on the voyager but arrived 1H24 later at Chester then I should of done and had the hassle of changing at Northampton with crutches and heavily luggage.

    Thanks, Saperstein.
     
  17. paul1609

    paul1609 Established Member

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    I went to and from Crewe from Euston on WMTs on Saturday on a journey to and from Bolton. The advance tickets were £5.95 each way and the train was never loaded to more than 10%of the 8 coach train in either direction. For much of the Down journey I had a coach to myself. I was thinking why on earth are these 8 coach trains!
     
  18. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Hi,

    1U41 1549 EUS - CRE WMT yesterday was formed of a single 4 car 350. At MKC it was rammed.

    I was actually surprised it was a 4 car as I’ve certainly travelled to Crewe on a 350 in the past and it was definitely either an 8 or a 11 car.

    Saperstein
     
  19. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    Really not sure what to advise here. This is a total mess. The moment you decided to go back to Milton Keynes Central and join a West Coast service is when things go complicated. You were travelling on a ticket with a TOC restriction. It is not possible to excess out of that so you should not have been sold an excess. I cannot work out what ticket you held in the first place as I can't find one at the price you quote and I cannot work out what you have been excessed to.
     
  20. LNW-GW Joint

    LNW-GW Joint Veteran Member

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    A word about changing at Crewe for Chester.
    The fast LNWR service from Euston terminates in P7, while the Chester local (TfW) goes from P9/10.
    That can be a long walk from the unsheltered Euston end of P7 to P9/10.
    I've seen some crowded 8-car 350s arrive in P7 and disgorge passengers who face a long walk with luggage, even though the change is nominally "cross-platform".
    Meanwhile, an Avanti Pendolino will usually pull up on P6 with the front cars pretty much directly opposite the Chester train, for a much simpler change.
    It's still a rapid change if Avanti use P11.
    Not so easy southbound with Avanti, as you are usually stuck with the bridge/lift to reach P5.

    Changes at Runcorn for Chester don't work too well with the current timetable, you can be stuck for the best part of an hour.
    Warrington is now better with 2tph Manchester-Chester.
     
  21. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    What do you mean by that? And who advised you to go back to MKC - WMT or Avanti staff?

    I used to catch these trains going south from Tamworth, and they would usually be full and standing with a full length train.
     
  22. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Hi @Belperpete

    I meant that it was impossible to board, it was already full when it arrived and then the pax from my train tried... it wasn’t pleasant.

    Would-be pax were 2 or three deep on the platform.

    The guard on 1F54 asked what station I wanted and when I said Chester he looked lost and wasn’t sure. He said to get the “Birmingham train” on platform 2 and “change at Birmingham” thus implying that train was only going to Birmingham.

    I looked it up later and realised it must have been 1Y23 1615 London Euston to Crewe and Walsall - West Midlands Trains.

    No Avanti staff at NMP afaik (do Avanti even serve NMP?).

    I then joined 1Y30 1516 Rugeley Trent Valley to London Euston - West Midlands tTrains which was running a few minutes late.

    Back at MKC I thought best to check with staff there, incase I was later challenged by Avanti on-board staff or Tfw Barrier staff at Chester.

    They offered to excess my ticket for £38 and the girl in the booking office said I could claim it back from WMT.

    In the event there was no ticket inspection on the Avanti train and the barriers were open at Chester.

    There seems to see a lot of misinformation by WMT staff, first we were told 1F54 “was cancelled from Northampton due to a train fault” yet later I found out it made it to Crewe after everybody had been turfed off.

    And then 1Y23 only goes to Birmingham??

    No wonder I was confused;)

    Saperstein
     
    Last edited: 25 Jan 2020
  23. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    This is a total mess. Even the way in information is presented here is confusing and hard to follow. I would suggest that you send a CLEAR and SHORT email to West Midland Trains Customer Relations and attach a copy of all your tickets plus the excess. I have tried to work out your train times and drafted an email for you to send. Avoid three letter station codes and train head codes. Just stick to the departure times and the full station names. Also, only include the stations you intended on travelling between. The actual stating point and final destination of the train is not required.

    Dear Sir/Madam

    I am writing to claim compensation following a delay to my journey from Haywards Heath to Chester on 22 January 2020.

    My intended itinerary was:
    13.21 Haywards Heath to East Croydon 13.48
    14.10 East Croydon to Milton Keynes Central 16.00
    16.19 Milton Keynes Central to Crewe 17.53
    18.24 Crewe to Chester 18.49

    However I was unable to board the 16.19 Milton Keynes Central to Crewe service due to overcrowding. I therefore boarded the 16.25 service from Milton Keynes Central to Crewe. However, this train was terminated at Northampton and we were advised to leave the train and use alternative services. I had to travel back on the 17.24 service to Milton Keynes Central arriving at 17.45. I asked for assistance at the ticket office and was able to Excess my ticket to enable me to use the next Avanti service to Chester. I departed Milton Keynes Central at 18.41 and arrived in Chester at 20.26. I arrived in Chester a total of 1 hour 37 minutes late.

    I would therefore like to claim compensation. I enclose the combination of tickets I used to make this journey, which came to a total of £xx.xx (cost of all tickets plus the excess).

    Yours faithfully,
     
    Last edited: 25 Jan 2020
  24. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    I am confused. In post #15, you said you were advised to travel back to Milton Keynes. In reply to my question who exactly advised you to do this, you say you were told by the WMT guard to catch the Birmingham train - which unless I am missing something, is not advising you to go back to Milton Keynes!

    If you were following directions given by an authorised member of staff, then you should not have had to pay an excess, and should be entitled to claim a refund (in addition to compensation for your delay). If you were not following directions given by an authorised member of staff, e.g. if the decision to go back to MK was yours, then you would probably not be entitled to a refund of the excess fare.
     
  25. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Thank you @gray1404 - I’ll give that a go.

    Will post back with an update.

    Saperstein.
     
  26. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    @Saperstein No problem, you will need to go to this page on their website to email them https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/contact-us/customer-relations
    I would recommend you select Complaint from the drop down menu. Then when it say "I am contacting you" I would select "other" rather then about a journey because it would be difficult to enter your journey details into that limited form. If you copy and paste the above suggested email into the comments box that will give them all the required information. You can only upload one image when submitting the form so will need to put both the outward portions for your tickets and the excess ticket into the one photo.

    I understand WMT are currently taking around 7 weeks to respond to complaints so you may have to wait some weeks for a reply. What is important though is you submit your complaints within 28 days of the journey.

    The other thing you could do is to submit a delay repay claim using their online site. They are much quicker at replying to these as I understand they outsource this role. I am not sure how easy it would be enter your details into the form though given you complicated journey and combination of tickets. That said, if they reject it then when appealing it is possible to enter a detailed explanation. It would be useful to see the tickets if you are going to do this.
     
  27. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Hi @Belperpete,

    I was walking along the platform and saw a staff member wearing Hi-Viz who was obviously a railway employee and thus I assumed he was a WMT employee as I am not aware if any other TOC’s work Northampton (Could Be wrong).

    I told him what has happened and what the guard had said about Birmingham and he said I would have needed to change at Birmingham. He then said it would quicker via Milton Keynes.

    There was certainly a lot of misinformation floating around at Northampton, in that the original Crewe train was said to be cancelled (it later ran!) and that the mysterious “Birmingham train” only went to Birmingham, in fact it terminated at Crewe.

    The original planned train, Milton Keynes 1619, to Crewe never went near Birmingham as it was more direct service, though this is a moot point as I was unable to board.

    Sorry I didn’t make it clear in my other posts.

    Thanks

    Saperstein
     
    Last edited: 26 Jan 2020
  28. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Hi @gray1404

    The tickets I held were:

    Haywards Heath to Runcorn Off peak day single Southern/WMT only DSB £35.45

    Runcorn to Chester Anytime day single TfW only DSB £3.85

    Excess Tickets:

    Haywards Heath to Runcorn X/S ALT RTE SGL DSB £35.25

    Runcorn to Chester X/S ALT RTE SGL DSB £3.10


    Thanks

    Saperstein
     
  29. Saperstein

    Saperstein Member

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    Hi @gray1404

    These are the tickets involved.

    Thanks

    Saperstein
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 26 Jan 2020
  30. gray1404

    gray1404 Established Member

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    I think that given your tickets were all singles and you were delayed were over an hour, you might be able to get this resolved with a delay repay claim. You can submit a claim online and if it gets rejected or for the wrong amount you can appeal it. I shall have to have a look at their claim form to see how easy it will be to fill in the form.
     
  31. paul1609

    paul1609 Established Member

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    I didn't see you original post but if you have to make this journey again. I'd suggest splitting your tickets in London and Crewe. Its marginally more expensive but just a whole lot more robust.
    I'd suggest travelling this way; Thameslink service to St Pancras then either bus or taxi to Euston (I walk).
    Then LMR service to Crewe, then next train to Chester. Actual tickets would depend on the time/ day your travelling
    I do a lot of journeys from the Southeast to the north for football and the extra couple of quid building in robustness is worth it in my opinion. I don't recommend the train splitting sites for cross London Journeys for that reason. I usually use trainsplit for the London Euston etc to destination and then book my own tickets to London
    If your going to have problems, the place to have them is London Terminals or major junction stations where staff will often make local arrangements rather than a place like Northampton where the platform staff often won't have an overall view.
     

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