But did you follow that up with actually telling them how many times (with whatever evidence you can supply) so it's possible to calculate the amount you owe?
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Til Mitigation (Child ticket)
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But did you follow that up with actually telling them how many times (with whatever evidence you can supply) so it's possible to calculate the amount you owe?
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R
RailUK Forums
It’s around 10 times over a span of like 2 years and I ‘saved’ like £6 per journey. So should I add in a paragraph calculating that and then offer a figure?
If there's any hint that they don't have the full picture of the offending, you're not likely to get a settlement.
(And even now you're continuing to change your story. An earlier response mentioned September 2020 but now you're saying 2 years. Start to see the problem with persuading someone to settle? If they go to court, they get it on oath.)
(And even now you're continuing to change your story. An earlier response mentioned September 2020 but now you're saying 2 years. Start to see the problem with persuading someone to settle? If they go to court, they get it on oath.)
Ok so shall I say something like this as well?
looking back on my bank account history, I have counted a total of 11 times that I have bought invalid tickets for £3.00 when in reality, I should’ve bought them for £9.70 (since I own a 16-25 railcard). Therefore, I ask you to please be merciful and allow me to pay back the £73.70 that I owe, as well as any other extra administrative expenses.
looking back on my bank account history, I have counted a total of 11 times that I have bought invalid tickets for £3.00 when in reality, I should’ve bought them for £9.70 (since I own a 16-25 railcard). Therefore, I ask you to please be merciful and allow me to pay back the £73.70 that I owe, as well as any other extra administrative expenses.
Im saying 2 years because that’s how long I’ve bought tickets from trainline for, that’s when I started uni, I’m not changing my story
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Footynatic
Member
Please feel free to disagree with me as there are much more knowledgeable people in here, but after this much contact is the likelihood of sending another letter beneficial?
personally think you’d have a better chance of settling on the day with the prosecutor than if you’d tried asking 4/5 times already, could well end up with the prosecutor being specially told not to settle this case, just my opinion though
That doesn't add up to me. Child tickets carry a 50% discount. A 16-25 Railcard offers a 34% discount. A child ticket shouldn't be £6.40 less than the same ticket with a Railcard?
Unless you short fared too?
Yes I short fared as well as mentioned in my first post
I think that you can forget the 1/3rd off with your railcard as you have bought an invalid ticket using it so it will be the full price of the tickets that you will owe (IIRC).
You then go on to say it's 2 years that you have been using Trainline to buy your tickets from. Why should TIL think that you have not used another way of buying tickets, as to only go to Uni. 11 times in 2 years is a bit odd. Unless you were only going to and through at the start and end of term.
While you're correct that a criminal court would start from a position of awarding compensation that puts the company back in the position it would have been had the offending not occurred, in practice train companies like to claim a strict contractual position of considering that no valid ticket was held for each separate journey and not allowing the use of any railcards. Rightly or wrongly, their starting point is often that the full Anytime Single fare should be paid for each single journey with no deductions allowed for any invalid tickets purchased.
Ok so I’ll also mention, however, I would be happy to pay the full anytime single fare which is £14.70 for each journey for a grand total of £161.70 and any other administrative expenses and penalties you deem necessary.
I bought completely valid tickets during my first year of uni and that’s when I started using trainline also. Then in my second year, I bought the invalid ones 11 times from Sept 2020 to April 2021
How many times have you now sent correspondence regarding this matter? I'd have thought there was a critical point where the staff dealing with it will just switch off and at a glance I'm pretty sure you're past it and will have to live with accounting for your actions in court. Flogging a dead horse doesn't achieve anything.
Best of luck then. I don't suppose annoying the prosecutions team will actually make the court outcome any worse, I guess.
What offence are you charged with according to the summons?
Haven’t actually received it yet, when I phoned up TIL they just said it’s been sent out, I’ll have it in a few days
Sorry, I missed that. They'll probably look to prosecute under the railway byelaws (a less serious conviction), or the Regulation of Railways Act (a more serious conviction, but requires them to prove intent).
Jackofspades
Member
I can definitely see them going with regulations of railway, for the facts they’ve admitted to short faring and travelling on child tickets, especially that it’s numerous times, the proof is in the pudding here
Update: so it’s been a hectic week…
Last Friday I officially received the summons and was being prosecuted under the regulation of railways act 1889. After much panic and stress, I thought it might be a good idea to reach out directly to the company prosecutor to try negotiate a settlement and upon extensive googling, I found a phone number for my prosecutor. After much deliberation, I called the number…
He picked up and I went off on one basically telling him how I’m so sorry and pleaded for his kindness for him to not prosecute me and how it will affect my future etc. He listened, which was more than I could ask for and then told me to email him and he’ll give my case one final review. I emailed him and he replied the next day.
He said he still sees no reason to proceed but will hand over the case to a separate prosecutor to be fair. I sent one more email in response thanking him and still pleading and begging for him to allow me to settle out of court.
So I heard nothing from either prosecutor and decided to call TIL on Thursday since my court date was in 6 days and I was getting very worried. The lady told me she would tell the prosecutor to reply and that I had called. But I heard nothing.
4 agonisingly stressful days later (so today), I called TIL once more to ask if there’s been any update since my hearing is on Wednesday and it’s now Monday. She said the same thing the lady told me on Thursday which was that she will tell the prosecutor to respond and that I had called.
Then, at half 3 later today, I received an email from TIL asking for my phone number so that the prosecutor could reach out to me. I responded and within 5 minutes I received a call from a no caller ID number. It was the company prosecutor and he was very nice and friendly on the phone, and he said that he was prepared to offer me a settlement of £666.10 and said that he was prepared to do this despite Chiltern Railways and the other prosecutor wanting to prosecute. I thanked him, he sent me an email to officialise it, I called TIL and paid it immediately.
So, after 4 letters, multiple phone calls and multiple emails, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my chest. I’m so relieved that this whole thing is behind me now, thank you to everyone on this forum for their help. If anyone is reading this and is in a similar position, please feel free to reach out and I will be happy to offer any guidance and advice.
Last Friday I officially received the summons and was being prosecuted under the regulation of railways act 1889. After much panic and stress, I thought it might be a good idea to reach out directly to the company prosecutor to try negotiate a settlement and upon extensive googling, I found a phone number for my prosecutor. After much deliberation, I called the number…
He picked up and I went off on one basically telling him how I’m so sorry and pleaded for his kindness for him to not prosecute me and how it will affect my future etc. He listened, which was more than I could ask for and then told me to email him and he’ll give my case one final review. I emailed him and he replied the next day.
He said he still sees no reason to proceed but will hand over the case to a separate prosecutor to be fair. I sent one more email in response thanking him and still pleading and begging for him to allow me to settle out of court.
So I heard nothing from either prosecutor and decided to call TIL on Thursday since my court date was in 6 days and I was getting very worried. The lady told me she would tell the prosecutor to reply and that I had called. But I heard nothing.
4 agonisingly stressful days later (so today), I called TIL once more to ask if there’s been any update since my hearing is on Wednesday and it’s now Monday. She said the same thing the lady told me on Thursday which was that she will tell the prosecutor to respond and that I had called.
Then, at half 3 later today, I received an email from TIL asking for my phone number so that the prosecutor could reach out to me. I responded and within 5 minutes I received a call from a no caller ID number. It was the company prosecutor and he was very nice and friendly on the phone, and he said that he was prepared to offer me a settlement of £666.10 and said that he was prepared to do this despite Chiltern Railways and the other prosecutor wanting to prosecute. I thanked him, he sent me an email to officialise it, I called TIL and paid it immediately.
So, after 4 letters, multiple phone calls and multiple emails, I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my chest. I’m so relieved that this whole thing is behind me now, thank you to everyone on this forum for their help. If anyone is reading this and is in a similar position, please feel free to reach out and I will be happy to offer any guidance and advice.
Fawkes Cat
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Thanks for letting us know - it's good to have a result that you are happy with. And a lesson that it's worth not taking a first refusal by the railway to settle.
Thanks for letting us know - it's reassuring to see that persistence paid off! Was this the Chiltern or TIL Prosecutor?
It was ultimately a TIL prosecutor who was lenient enough to offer me an out of court settlement. Are you in a similar position yourself?
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