Time restrictions - Family & Friends Railcard.

[transportphoto]

Hi All,

Is there set times to the restrictions in the London and SE area with a F&F Rcd?

1. Can I use my Railcard at any time of day?
Yes you can, except on journeys in London and the South East (Monday to Friday morning peak services). This includes Gatwick Express, most South West Trains services to and from Waterloo, and routes shown in red on the Network Railcard map.

TIA

TP

Sorry for the straight and too the point question - I am currently trying to work out what was a simple fare... may post another thread regarding it later

 

[dzug2]

I don't think there's a set time as such other that (with the exception of a few easements) it depends on the validity of off peak fares from the originating station.

 

[Ivo]

Why does it specifically note SWT? Every (standard) line on the Network Railcard map is red! :?

 

[MikeWh]

AFAIK it is the time that off-peak tickets are available. Within Greater London that is usually after 0930. Further out it is usually trains that arrive in London after 1000. I don't know what happens with trains that don't go to London.

HTH.

 

[yorkie]

I am currently trying to work out what was a simple fare... may post another thread regarding it later

All fares are "simple", you need to do several calculations, consulting several documents and secret manuals (as the public ones may not list the restrictions) and hope that if you made a mistake you don't encounter a desperate RPI. This is "simple" according to ATOC and ensures that you can "buy with confidence" and you know "exactly where you stand".

Anyway as you have not provided the origin or destination I am unable to provide advice. This is due to us having "simple" fares, and I need the origin/destination in order to do a detailed (yet "simple") analysis.

Now, we should be grateful to ATOC for having a "simple" system. Imagine if they gave us what they called a complicated system? Imagine if we were unable to buy with confidence and we didn't know where we stand? That would be really bad...! Perhaps then people would buy CDs or go to the theatre instead? That would make ATOC's commercial director happy at least.

 

[MikeWh]

Now, we should be grateful to ATOC for having a "simple" system. Imagine if they gave us what they called a complicated system? Imagine if we were unable to buy with confidence and we didn't know where we stand? That would be really bad...! Perhaps then people would buy CDs or go to the theatre instead? That would make ATOC's commercial director happy at least.

It gets better every time!

 

[FGWman]

You cannot use a F&F railcard in the network area until Off Peak tickets are available for that journey. This only applies for journeys totally within the network area. If the origin or destination are outside tthe are then you can use it at any time.

It is an old ex BR condition. Same with the Senior Railcard.

 

[transportphoto]

Ok - thanks

What I think I'll do is (I'm off to Cambridge today) call in to their advance booking office and get all the restrictions printed off!

Thanks.

 

[island]

You cannot use a F&F railcard in the network area until Off Peak tickets are available for that journey. This only applies for journeys totally within the network area. If the origin or destination are outside tthe are then you can use it at any time.

What if the journey you are making does not have off-peak tickets? *stir*stir*stir*

 

[FGWman]

What if the journey you are making does not have off-peak tickets? *stir*stir*stir*

Then it can be used after 0900

 

[DaveNewcastle]

You're off to Cambridge, eh?
And you're going to ask for all the restrictions? All of them?
Would that include the "easements" which, being 'easements' wouldn't be considered as a 'restriction', were it not for the fact that many are 'negative easements', which makes them a 'restriction'?

eg Easement No 700119 "Customers travelling from Shelford via Royston, may not travel via Cambridge This easement applies in both directions".

Just look at a map then ask yourself if a 'Customer travelling from Shelford via Royston' is being restricted or eased? (eased onto a bus, I'd say).

Actually, Yorkie could have simplified his convoluted, though amusing, post above if he'd simply included the real explanation of ticket restrictions: They're very clearly based on the phases of the moon and a simple reference to the pattern of tea leaves at the bottom of a mug of tea. No one working on the railways has any trouble in consulting their tea leaves at any time of day to resolve simple queries like this. Surely anyone can understand that, can't they?

 

[tony_mac]

Then it can be used after 0900

is there any evidence for that?

An off-peak travelcard is valid after 09:30, so if it's in the zones, then that must be off-peak? Yet TFL say that discounted child travelcards are valid after 10:00?

clear?!

 

[FGWman]

The OP was asking about journeys where there is no off peak ticket available. There are a very few such journeys usually short distances where only anytime tickets are available. In those cases the F & F railcard can be used after 0900.

Does not apply to travel cards where there anytime and off peak type available.

 

[tony_mac]

In those cases the F & F railcard can be used after 0900.

Can you possibly tell us where you get that information from?
and what about in the travelcard zones? Is that 9:00, 9:30, or 10:00?

 

[transportphoto]

You're off to Cambridge, eh?
And you're going to ask for all the restrictions? All of them?
Would that include the "easements" which, being 'easements' wouldn't be considered as a 'restriction', were it not for the fact that many are 'negative easements', which makes them a 'restriction'?

eg Easement No 700119 "Customers travelling from Shelford via Royston, may not travel via Cambridge This easement applies in both directions".

Just look at a map then ask yourself if a 'Customer travelling from Shelford via Royston' is being restricted or eased? (eased onto a bus, I'd say).

Actually, Yorkie could have simplified his convoluted, though amusing, post above if he'd simply included the real explanation of ticket restrictions: They're very clearly based on the phases of the moon and a simple reference to the pattern of tea leaves at the bottom of a mug of tea. No one working on the railways has any trouble in consulting their tea leaves at any time of day to resolve simple queries like this. Surely anyone can understand that, can't they?

No - I wasn't asking for a print off of all the restrictions - just the ones related to the journey(ies) I am planning for.

What if the journey you are making does not have off-peak tickets? *stir*stir*stir*

The OP was asking about journeys where there is no off peak ticket available. There are a very few such journeys usually short distances where only anytime tickets are available. In those cases the F & F railcard can be used after 0900.

Does not apply to travel cards where there anytime and off peak type available.

No - I am not asking specifically for journeys where no off-peak tickets are available mile: I was just asking if there was a specific cur off time

Thanks for all the help - wasn't able to call into CBG anyways due to time issues.

TP

 

[John @ home]

AFAIK it is the time that off-peak tickets are available.

Broadly, yes. But the precise wording is important.

Time restrictions

The Railcard discount isn't available on tickets when journeys are made wholly within the London and South East area (including all South West Trains services to and from London Waterloo) on morning peak period services Monday to Friday (not including Public Holidays).

The times of morning off-peak services do vary by route and are normally related to the availability of Off-Peak Day.

http://www.familyandfriends-railcard.co.uk/buy-family-friends-railcard/railcard-terms-conditions

This wording means that one adult and one child with the railcard travelling from Bedford to Brighton on a weekday and returning the next weekday are charged are charged £53.50 single on the 0854 departure, the last peak train, there being no peak return fare valid more than one day. They are charged £25.45 for cheap day singles with the railcard on the next train, the 0910, because Restriction TS shows Cheap Day tickets are valid from Bedford on the 0910. They are charged £31.05 for off-peak returns with the railcard on the next train, the 0924, because Restriction 4J shows off-peak return tickets are valid from Bedford at or after 0915 (as long as they return from Brighton at or after 0930).

What if the journey you are making does not have off-peak tickets?

Then it can be used after 0900

I can't trace any reference to 0900 in the rules. Are there any journeys wholly within the Network area for which there are no off-peak day fares?

 

[island]

Yes, Lee (London) to Mottingham, to take a silly example. I would also like to know the source of the 0900 time.