Tissue begging on trains

[DarloRich]

Ignore them and contact btp and/or on train staff

 

[Ibex]

I recall people begging on the tube in Central London at least 20 years ago. The young man asked for our attention and then related his story as to why he need the money. No attempt to sell us anything and no donation from me nor anyone else as I recall.

This is still a regular occurrence now, I see this semi-regularly on the Circle / H&C lines between Paddington and Euston Square, also the Victoria line in Zone 1.

What would the PIS screen message say? That could potentially end up being a PR distaser. I can't imagine it could say no begging.

London Overground have an automated announcement on the 378s approaching Hackney Central about not giving money to beggars on the train and to make a donation to a particular homeless charity in Whitechapel.

 

[mrmartin]

A very large proportion off begging is organised crime. Loads of eastern european people begging with laminated signs saying 'need money for their baby' (which is nonsense as the NHS wouldn't charge for it). Tissue begging is also organised crime.

You can definitely tell the difference between the 'genuine' begging and organised crime. As someone pointed out, clean clothes,, printed and laminated stuff as opposed to handwritten, etc.

 

[xc170]

Experienced this on a Clacton service out of Liverpool Street last year, tissues and printed sign.

It's organised crime, if everyone else ignored them, they would move onto something else...

 

[sheff1]

Some time ago (pretty sure more than the 5 years mentioned earlier) I found these tissue sellers very useful. I had a bout of sniffles on the train and found I did not have my usual packet of tissues in my pocket. At the next station a seller boarded and I bought a pack happily !

 

[Llanigraham]

I guess you're right it probably wouldn't be tolerated on classic private premises. The railway (station) a public place though, open to all rich or poor, lots of places of shelter at stations

They aren't "public spaces". They are places open to the genereal public; there is a big difference.

and the land technically being owned by the public. It's not quite the same as say a supermarket. More similar to say a council owned shopping precinct.

But they aren't owned by the public, are they? They are owned by (generally) Network Rail.
You may also note that they are covered by Legislation that does not allow begging.

 

[pt_mad]

A very large proportion off begging is organised crime. Loads of eastern european people begging with laminated signs saying 'need money for their baby' (which is nonsense as the NHS wouldn't charge for it). Tissue begging is also organised crime.

You can definitely tell the difference between the 'genuine' begging and organised crime. As someone pointed out, clean clothes,, printed and laminated stuff as opposed to handwritten, etc.

Ah I see. Didn't realise about the organised crime.

 

[trebor79]

People encourage them by giving to them. I'd be making announcements not to if I was the driver & hopefully TOCs suffering from this will start advertising not to via the PIS screens.

I've been on tube trains when the driver has done exactly that. "Ladies and gents a known beggar has just boarded the 4th car. Please don't give him any money. Oh, he's gone into the 5th car now. Ah, he's decided to leave. Mind the doors please..."

 

[Geoff DC]

Saw one recently on the Piraeus to Athens Airport train - homed in on me but the Greeks around me who saw I was a visitor chased him off

 

[trebor79]

Travelling between Waterloo and Liverpool Street on Friday there was a young lady sat at the entrance to the Bank Central line platforms. Holding a sign saying she was a single mum and needed good for her baby as her benefits had been stopped. Nobody gave her anything whilst I was there.
As so many people don't use cash now, begging must be getting less effective. There week to be far fewer buskers on the tube than in times past and perhaps that's driven by society becoming cashless too.

 

[LancasterRed]

There's one guy at Preston who begs, usually outside by the bus stops but has been on the platforms begging before. He jumps when confronted or called out for it, but will certainly end up the topic of a 61016 text next time, that is assuming you can report to them without having to give all kinds of statements.

Hopefully there's a clampdown soon, and those that need it get the help they need.

 

[thealm]

Happen to me on GA train at Cambridge, should I’ve reported to BTP?

 

[dk1]

I've been on tube trains when the driver has done exactly that. "Ladies and gents a known beggar has just boarded the 4th car. Please don't give him any money. Oh, he's gone into the 5th car now. Ah, he's decided to leave. Mind the doors please..."

That's good to hear mate.

 

[Statto]

I had one on a train out of London Bridge about 15 years ago asking for money, but never gave him any money.

I encountered someone at Euston about 18 months ago, wanting Reading[which i doubt] told him which way to go, but he was quite persistent wanting money, i never gave him any money, & ended up losing him, after doing an about turn.

Theirs genuine homeless, but also professional beggars so hard sometimes to suss out who is genuine & who is not, but rule of the thumb, if you want to give any money, then donate to one of the charity organisations like Shelter, rather than give to the person who's asking for money.

 

[NSB2017]

There is a reference to this on the BTP site.

https://www.btp.police.uk/safety_on_the_railway/safety_on_and_near_the_railway/tissue_begging.aspx

 

[ainsworth74]

Had the "I am a pound short for my fare" at Cardiff Central from a man who sounded and looked genuine.I believed him and gave him a pound.On my return a few hours later he was still at it!

On the odd occasion I've had that one my approach has been to say I don't have any change but I'll happily buy them a ticket from a TVM in exchange for the cash they've got.

So far, no takers of my offer

 

[2L70]

Slightly OT but the amount of Beggars as you come out of New Street heading towards Tesco Metro is amazing... I used to go for a drink round there but not been for ages.

 

[RailWonderer]

Had a couple of those types at Paddington on a Didcot stopper a couple years back and once recently on a train to Liverpool St.
A few years back I was on an SWT 450 out of Waterloo and the automated PIS played something like ‘Organised beggars operate through this service, do not encourage them by giving them money’ in Celia’s posh voice. Surprised me for a second. Trust Surrey to be the first county they prey on.

 

[185143]

I've encountered that at London termini. Like you, I feel sympathetic and, on a number of occasions, have offered to buy the 'stranded' person a ticket but, funnily enough, they always disappear on the way to the booking office.
Maybe one day I'll meet someone who calls my bluff because they know how to get a refund on an unused ticket...

Pay by card in that case. They either are genuine and use the ticket, or if they get a refund for it, it goes back to your card.

 

[jon0844]

BTP say tissue beggars are vulnerable because there's a very good chance they're being forced to beg to pay some rather nasty people. I've heard talk of it being a very large Romanian operation based in and around north west London that the police are presumably very aware of.

I've seen them a lot and seen them being given money (sometimes folding) so of course they'll continue. I can't imagine how much money is being raked in each day.

I wonder what the money is spent on. Is it sent back to Romania or used to fund the supply of illegal goods in the UK?

Either way, as has been said, give to a charity.

 

[matt_world2004]

Considering the amount of time it would take to get a refund of a ticket and the fact that large amounts of refund requests will attract suspicion it seems a very cost ineffective way of getting money unless the ticket itself is expensive and people aren't going to buy strangers expensive tickets

 

[jon0844]

Considering the amount of time it would take to get a refund of a ticket and the fact that large amounts of refund requests will attract suspicion it seems a very cost ineffective way of getting money unless the ticket itself is expensive and people aren't going to buy strangers expensive tickets

I've been asked to help get someone home (pay for a ticket) to Cambridge or Peterborough before (as a regular user of King's Cross I now recognise these people a mile off, but obviously there are a LOT of infrequent visitors) so I guess a refund on one of those tickets wouldn't be too bad. Easier than a few pence here, a pound there and hoping for the odd note.

I think people are perhaps wising up to the beggar who clearly looks addicted to something, and so seem to fall for the likes of the tissue beggar or the man/woman that has a big story worked out, often starting with something like 'I'm going to level with you' as if not to patronise you.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm sure BTP are well aware of it. Whether they achieve anything meaningful about it (the "sorted" bit) is another matter.

It seems to be spreading again at traffic signals in London as well. The organisers seem to be traffic engineers, as they identify those with the longest red times.

They are indeed aware of it, and not just through the webpage as published by other members. Unfortunately though, you have to take into consideration that the BTP is like many police forces around the country at the moment and are pretty chronically understaffed, and these so called "gangs" like to move around fairly often. The stretch between Burnham (ungated so easy access) and Ealing Broadway on the Great Western Mainline unfortunately is a pretty regular spot for these Tissue Beggars and I've often had both passengers come up to report them to me as well as seeing them on board these services myself, travelling on both GWR and TFL services along this stretch. The problem is, that when it comes to targeting these tissue beggars there's only so many resources BTP can put out to actively target this in addition to their normal duties, while also having to rely on the intel passed to them (of which a lot will go unreported or will be sent too late). So as per the website and the 1001 messages advising you to do so, I'd always recommend the 61016 system - They will respond to that!

 

[Taunton]

you have to take into consideration that the BTP is like many police forces around the country at the moment and are pretty chronically understaffed

You do have to wonder, if they are so under-resourced to achieve anything meaningful, why therefore they have launched on such an extensive publicity campaign about their abilities.

 

[SlimJim1694]

Orpington-Victoria has drug addict beggars on it every day. Usually around Brixton and Herne Hill. It never fails to amaze me how many people give them money. A lot of the people coughing up seem to be locals too so you would have thought they'd know better. I've never seen anyone attempt to stop them.

 

[superjohn]

You do have to wonder, if they are so under-resourced to achieve anything meaningful, why therefore they have launched on such an extensive publicity campaign about their abilities.

Perhaps in the interests of self preservation. The threat of being disbanded and merged into existing local forces, with the inevitable cutbacks that would be involved, has been hanging over them for years and the government is constantly searching for things to cut.

 

[_toommm_]

Had the "I am a pound short for my fare" at Cardiff Central from a man who sounded and looked genuine.I believed him and gave him a pound.On my return a few hours later he was still at it!

There was always a very persistent ‘I need to get to the hospital because I’m pregnant. Can you spare a pound?’ in Rotherham Bus Station. Made me laugh because she was there for about a year!

 

[Essexman]

I encountered tissue begging for the first time last week - LNWR between Wolverhampton & Birmingham.

My local company C2C have a frequent announcement on stations asking people not to give to beggars and giving the names of two local homeless charities with text details to donate.

Generally I tend to buy the Big Issue, buy food or drink and donate to homeless charities but over the years I've given money to many people with 'stories' the majority of whom were probably false. I don't give to people who look likely to spend it on drugs or alcohol.

 

[The_Train]

I can safely say that I've never heard of 'tissue begging' let alone encountered it. I've had a few beggars using the 'I'm a little short for my journey' line but I usually cut them off before they finish by telling them I've got no change.

There was also a period last summer where a group of guys were roaming the local town offering cheap perfumes and aftershave. I dread to think what chemicals were in them as I doubt they'd come off the official production line - unless of course they'd fell off the back of a lorry.

 

[TheSeeker]

Always thought this quote summed it up well, Henning Wehn: “We don't do charity in Germany. We pay taxes. Charity is a failure of governments' responsibilities."