TOC & Connections Advance Tickets

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kel-green

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Hi

I want to purchase a VTWC & Connections advance ticket and am considering options. The connecting train will be a train I get before the VTWC service. I understand that if my WTWC train gets cancelled, I have to wait for the next WTWC train, but I'm a bit confused about what happens if the connecting train (i.e. that I have to take before getting on the VTWC train) gets cancelled, where multiple TOCs run along the connecting route.

There are two scenarios:

1. The connecting service is reservable & hence I have a reservation for the connection. Do I have to wait for the next train by this connecting TOC?

2. The connecting service was unreservable. Do I have to wait for the next unreservable connecting train?

Thanks
 
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LexyBoy

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In my opinion:

1. No; there is no restriction on the TOC you may use for the "connections" part.
2. No, for the same reason. I believe the idea that you may not use a reservable train as a connecting train in this situation dubious at the best of times, but if the train you had planned to take was cancelled then I don't believe there is anything preventing travel on the next available service.
 

crehld

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In my opinion:

1. No; there is no restriction on the TOC you may use for the "connections" part.
2. No, for the same reason. I believe the idea that you may not use a reservable train as a connecting train in this situation dubious at the best of times, but if the train you had planned to take was cancelled then I don't believe there is anything preventing travel on the next available service.

Agreed. For completeness the terms and conditions for advance tickets clearly state this about delayed journeys:

If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey.

Whether the train is reservable, or any other factors, do not come into it.
 

Eboordna

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In my opinion:

1. No; there is no restriction on the TOC you may use for the "connections" part.
2. No, for the same reason. I believe the idea that you may not use a reservable train as a connecting train in this situation dubious at the best of times, but if the train you had planned to take was cancelled then I don't believe there is anything preventing travel on the next available service.

1. Is not true. Eg: you have a Glasgow to Manchester VT & connections ticket. You use VT from Glasgow to Preston. Your connection is then on Northern or TPE but you can't use it on TPE unless that's the train you have a reservation on. (Unless there's some kind of delay to your journey).
 

John @ home

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I'm a bit confused about what happens if the connecting train ... gets cancelled, where multiple TOCs run along the connecting route.
Your connection is then on Northern or TPE but you can't use it on TPE unless that's the train you have a reservation on. (Unless there's some kind of delay to your journey).
It seems to me that Eboordna's response does not take account of the fact that the connecting train has been cancelled.

I agree with crehld that in these circumstances "you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey", irrespective of which train company operates the next available connecting train.
 
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Starmill

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1. Is not true. Eg: you have a Glasgow to Manchester VT & connections ticket. You use VT from Glasgow to Preston. Your connection is then on Northern or TPE but you can't use it on TPE unless that's the train you have a reservation on. (Unless there's some kind of delay to your journey).

Ignoring the issue at hand, this is also not correct.

You must use a train for which you have a reservation. Where you do not have a reservation, you should use appropriate connecting services. There is no reason you may not use a TransPennine service from Preston to Manchester with a VTWC&Connections ticket, the operator is not restricted here, rather the reservation status dicates the restriction. As some trains are reservable for the purposes of seats and some for the purposes of Advance ticket quota, some for both and some for neither, it's impossible for ordinary passengers to know what 'reservable' means and if it applies or not.
 

greatkingrat

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The Advances Fares FAQ (which many posters on here are fond of quoting when it suits them) is clear

Q25 - Can a passenger with an Advance ticket travel on an earlier connecting train?
A: Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.

How enforceable it is in practice is another matter.
 

LexyBoy

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The Advances Fares FAQ (which many posters on here are fond of quoting when it suits them) is clear

Q25 - Can a passenger with an Advance ticket travel on an earlier connecting train?
A: Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.

How enforceable it is in practice is another matter.

In this case it would be a later connecting train :)

I will however amend my answer to (1) having re-read Condition 12:
If you purchase an Advance ticket, you must use that ticket in the train specified when you book your ticket. However, if you miss this service because a previous connecting train service was delayed you will be able to travel on the next service provided by the Train Company with whom you were booked to travel without penalty.
I think therefore that you are technically tied to the TOC booked for the connecting service - although in practice it's unlikely to be questioned.

1. Is not true. Eg: you have a Glasgow to Manchester VT & connections ticket. You use VT from Glasgow to Preston. Your connection is then on Northern or TPE but you can't use it on TPE unless that's the train you have a reservation on. (Unless there's some kind of delay to your journey).

If you have a reservation on a TPE service, then you must of course use that service. As above it would seem that you are tied to TPE if your booked connection is cancelled.

If you don't have a booked connection then "travel is allowed on appropriate connecting trains where shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary". Opinions of the meaning of "appropriate" differ but mine is trains between the change point and destination/origin, which depart at a reasonable time connecting with the the booked train.
 

John @ home

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The Advances Fares FAQ (which many posters on here are fond of quoting when it suits them) is clear

Q25 - Can a passenger with an Advance ticket travel on an earlier connecting train?
A: Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.
kel-green's post #1 makes it clear that s/he wants to know "what happens if the connecting train (i.e. that I have to take before getting on the VTWC train) gets cancelled". In these circumstances, the terms and conditions for Advance tickets make it clear that "If delays occur while travelling, you will be allowed to take the next available train(s) to complete your journey."

We have not been asked about the situation where the connecting train from the origin is cancelled and kel-green arrives at the origin station sufficiently early to consider catching an even earlier connecting train.
 

Starmill

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The Advances Fares FAQ (which many posters on here are fond of quoting when it suits them) is clear

Q25 - Can a passenger with an Advance ticket travel on an earlier connecting train?
A: Yes if it is non-reservable, no if it is reservable.

How enforceable it is in practice is another matter.

I had always understood this question to refer only to cases where a reservation is actually already held. i.e. a 'suitable' train is unreservable, rather than the one they choose to travel on. I don't really understand how validity or otherwise can be determined by something the passenger cannot find out.
 
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