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TOC contract expiry dates

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LNW-GW Joint

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As an SWR commuter, I have to say I'm somewhat unclear as to how this will benefit me or the service being delivered.
As I understand from much of the parallel discussions on here, the issues around, say, service frequency, are down to the DfT's service specification. I'm not clear how transitioning to public ownership actually makes anything better, except maybe making subsequent and unspecified reform easier.
It's probably the second step to reforming the Southern Region (the first being that Southeastern is already government-run).
But we don't really know how the TOCs will be integrated together (if indeed they are).
It would mean that MTR, having lost the Elizabeth Line contract, is no longer involved in UK rail - FirstGroup would still have GWR and Avanti.
A May handover does seem cautious, but the DfT has to get itself and (Shadow) GBR organised by then.
There's a certain symmetry about it - South West Trains was the first franchise contracted out on 4 Feb 1996 (along with Great Western Trains).
 
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Goldfish62

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It's a fact that SWR comes under public ownership in May because that's when its contract that can't be extended or renewed expires.

The news is that the government is not exercising its right to give three months notice to any TOC that is still some way from the final contract expiry date before that.
 

43066

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As I understand from much of the parallel discussions on here, the issues around, say, service frequency, are down to the DfT's service specification. I'm not clear how transitioning to public ownership actually makes anything better, except maybe making subsequent and unspecified reform easier.

Probably fair to say it’s mostly political and rooted in ideology.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Problem is GTRs contract is up in April. Does that mean it gets an extension. Shame if so
That's the core term expiry date.
If the DfT does not invoke its powers earlier, the full term ends on 1 April 2028.
No "extension" is necessary until then.
 

positron

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That's interesting I have 3 other operators whose core contracts were set to end first (Greater Anglia, West Midlands Trains and GTR). Though SWR is the one whose full contract ends first.

If they don't end when core terms are up that leaves them waiting till 2031 for Cross Country which is one of the most hated operations...
 

fandroid

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Had the previous government started any sort of negotiations for an extension of SWR's contract?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Problem is GTRs contract is up in April. Does that mean it gets an extension. Shame if so
OLR are not setup for a mass takeover and at best would just mean the same problems remain yet DfT becomes the target of performance issues.This way they can still hold the TOCs feet to the fire.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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The BBC has reported that the SWR announcement will be tomorrow, and that two other contracts are involved, presumably coming after SWR.
 

Doctor Fegg

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That's interesting I have 3 other operators whose core contracts were set to end first (Greater Anglia, West Midlands Trains and GTR). Though SWR is the one whose full contract ends first.
The FT claims "Haigh had drawn up plans to exercise a break clause to nationalise Greater Anglia or West Midlands Railway as soon as February, the [two people with knowledge of the details] said. Industry and government officials had warned that this plan carried the serious risk legal action from their owner, Transport UK."
 

SCDR_WMR

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The FT claims "Haigh had drawn up plans to exercise a break clause to nationalise Greater Anglia or West Midlands Railway as soon as February, the [two people with knowledge of the details] said. Industry and government officials had warned that this plan carried the serious risk legal action from their owner, Transport UK."
Not sure there could be any legal risk. Past core contract date.
 

Sir Felix Pole

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Tony Miles of 'Modern Railways' is reporting that the FT has broken the strict DfT embargo on the news - so looks to be on tomorrow.
 

SWT_USER

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Cautiously optimistic and pleased SWR will be the first to go. Hopefully we'll get some improvements as the government will want to show the benefits of nationalisation
 

LNW-GW Joint

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c2c expires 20 July 2025, but if GA comes in "autumn" 2025 it will be a year earlier than the expiry date of 20 Sept 2026.
 

positron

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The FT claims "Haigh had drawn up plans to exercise a break clause to nationalise Greater Anglia or West Midlands Railway as soon as February, the [two people with knowledge of the details] said. Industry and government officials had warned that this plan carried the serious risk legal action from their owner, Transport UK."
Isn't the *whole* point of having a parliament with absolute power that when they pass legislation they're NOT open to legal action... Just nationalise them and the courts should throw the case out.
 
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The Secretary of State for Transport Heidi Alexander has just announced in The Mirror that the first three train operators to be taken back into public ownership in 2025 will be South Western Railway in May, c2c in July and Greater Anglia in the autumn.
'As the new Transport Secretary, I'm determined to return our railways to the service of passengers'
Newly appointed Transport Secretary Heidi Alexander writes for The Mirror that South Western Railway will be the first operator to be taken back into public hands under new legislation
By Heidi Alexander 18:34, 3 Dec 2024
The taxpayer will save up to £150 million a year in fees alone by ensuring every penny is spent on services rather than private shareholders.
Today I’m taking the first step by announcing the first operators that will come under public control. Next May, South Western Railway will be taken back into public hands, followed by c2c in July and Greater Anglia in the autumn.
We will do this properly. The last thing passengers want is more chaos and disruption. So we will roll out transfers over several months, making sure passengers can continue buying tickets and get assistance from staff as usual.
 

I_am_Nobody

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I have to ask... why does a Government Transport Secretary think it's a good idea to specifically make announcements through an article on a newspaper's website, rather than through... Government channels?
 

Kite159

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Will anything change day to day? Probably not, the higher ups will change but with no threat of "if you don't meet target X you won't get this performance related bonus" some of the management will go into a state of "can't be bothered doing more than actually needed"

Just look at how well Northern run, especially on Sundays, the poster child of the nationalised railway.
 

JamesT

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Isn't the *whole* point of having a parliament with absolute power that when they pass legislation they're NOT open to legal action... Just nationalise them and the courts should throw the case out.
Parliament may be sovereign, but Government is still subject to laws. If a public authority goes beyond the bounds of legality then it’s entirely correct that people or companies should have recourse to the courts.
The suggestion being made is that the “break clause” isn’t entirely watertight so the owning group would be able to challenge it.
 
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A much tidied up version of the DfTs war and peace courtesy of the Bring Back British Rail website...

DfT rail contract expiry dates:

15/09/2024 – Greater Anglia
15/09/2024 – West Midlands / LNR
13/10/2024 – South Eastern*
01/03/2025 – Northern*
01/04/2025 – Govia Thameslink
01/04/2025 – Chiltern
25/05/2025 – TransPennine Express*
25/05/2025 – SWR
22/06/2025 – GWR
23/06/2025 – LNER*
20/07/2025 – c2c
18/10/2026 – Avanti
18/10/2026 – EMR
15/10/2027 – XC

*denotes DfT-OLR operator
The contracts for SWR and c2c expire on the above dates so clearly they have to end on those dates. LNER, South Eastern, Northern and TransPennine Express are already operators of last resort. The core terms for Avanti, EMR and XC end on the above dates in 2026 and 2027 so their contracts cannot be terminated before those dates. This leaves the question of when the contracts for GTR, Chiltern, GWR and West Midlands will end. Three months notice can given to terminate their contracts on or at any time after their core term expiry dates listed above.
 
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ScotGG

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Cautiously optimistic and pleased SWR will be the first to go. Hopefully we'll get some improvements as the government will want to show the benefits of nationalisation
Well we heard similar about Southeastern.

It's not been great. Some moronic short term cuts from DaFT.

If GBR gets going and is sufficiently funded by the Treasury and the DfT not involved then maybe...in time.
 
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I have to ask... why does a Government Transport Secretary think it's a good idea to specifically make announcements through an article on a newspaper's website, rather than through... Government channels?
According to the following Government ministers are supposed to make announcements to Parliament first. This has been more and more disregarded in recent years. It was the same with the Budget.
The Ministerial Code states that when Parliament is in Session, the most important Ministerial announcements should be made in Parliament. However there have been occasions when, for whatever reason, announcements have not been delivered in Parliament first. Often in such cases the Speaker has made a statement to the House deprecating what has happened and sometimes calling on the minister concerned to account for his/her actions.
 

Clarence Yard

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Had the previous government started any sort of negotiations for an extension of SWR's contract?

It couldn’t. SWR and c2c are the last two on the old style term + extension contracts and both are in their extension periods so a new contract procurement for each would have been required.

The advantage of the latest version of the NRC is that the DfT can just give 84 days notice for the contract to end at any time between the CTED and the final expiry date. The Government has a lot of flexibility over taking these contracts back.
 

SWT_USER

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Well we heard similar about Southeastern.

It's not been great. Some moronic short term cuts from DaFT.

If GBR gets going and is sufficiently funded by the Treasury and the DfT not involved then maybe...in time.
The moronic cuts on SWR are still here. At least Southeastern have had many of the services cut during COVID restored.
 

ScotGG

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The moronic cuts on SWR are still here. At least Southeastern have had many of the services cut during COVID restored.
Many cuts remain. All of the Dartford lines won't have seen services restored after Dec change. Still some large cuts.

Hayes line still has poor frequency.

Orpington finally goes back from 2tph to 4 tph but not on weekends which is silly as can be busy.

Both SE and SWR suburban routes have seen poor levels of service hampering recovery. I've no idea about HS1 as about as relevant to many SE passengers on suburban routes as c2c.
 

HerneHill

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The Secretary of State for Transport Heidi Alexander has just announced in The Mirror that the first three train operators to be taken back into public ownership in 2025 will be South Western Railway in May, c2c in July and Greater Anglia in the autumn.
Why in the world did Heidi Alexander announce this by op-ed in a newspaper rather than a DfT missive?? THE MIRROR of all papers as well :s
 
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