TOC contract expiry dates

[eldomtom2]

Labour's plan is to take passenger operations into public ownership when contracts with the TOCs expire, when will this be? Wikipedia lists "Core Term Expiry Dates" and "End Dates" - I'm not sure of the difference between the two.

 

[TrainHacker]

Public register of rail passenger contracts

Contract documents for passenger railway services in England and details of how to request contract information.

www.gov.uk

 

[Thirteen]

There are some TOCs they won't have control over like Merseyrail, ARL or MTR Elizabeth Line since those are controlled by Merseytravel and TfL respectively as well as Scotrail and TFW Rail but I would expect joint up thinking and joint ventures instead in those cases.

 

[V221 135]

The new Transport Secretary is having performances examined closely, in particular Avanti and SWR with a view to possibly ending their contracts early. The legal ramifications of such a move require careful attention. But the companies involved may not resist too much given the chance of more lucrative work elsewhere, such as on the bus networks as well as being allowed to run Open Access rail services.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The standard National Rail Contracts have a final contract end date but also a Core Term Expiry Date (CTED). The DfT can, at three railway periods notice, terminate these contracts at any date between the CTED and the final expiry date, at no cost to the DfT.

As the CTED dates are all between 2024 and 2027, the new Government can take these contracts back fairly quickly.

There are only two contracts that are on the old contract term + extension terms. These are SWR and c2c. Both are now in the extension periods so presumably will not move to a new NRC with their current Owning Groups when these contracts finally end in 2025.

There has been a bit of sabre rattling over TOCs such as Avanti being taken back for non performance but since the DfT are so involved in setting resource levels, that has potential difficulties. Given that Avanti has a CTED of 18/10/26, why go through all that bother?

 

[eldomtom2]

The standard National Rail Contracts have a final contract end date but also a Core Term Expiry Date (CTED). The DfT can, at three railway periods notice, terminate these contracts at any date between the CTED and the final expiry date, at no cost to the DfT.

As the CTED dates are all between 2024 and 2027, the new Government can take these contracts back fairly quickly.

There are only two contracts that are on the old contract term + extension terms. These are SWR and c2c. Both are now in the extension periods so presumably will not move to a new NRC with their current Owning Groups when these contracts finally end in 2025.

There has been a bit of sabre rattling over TOCs such as Avanti being taken back for non performance but since the DfT are so involved in setting resource levels, that has potential difficulties. Given that Avanti has a CTED of 18/10/26, why go through all that bother?

Thanks a lot for your explanation! So the earliest the government could take a franchise into public ownership would be 8th December, 84 days after the CTED for Greater Anglia and WMT?

 

[KNN]

Labour's plan is to take passenger operations into public ownership when contracts with the TOCs expire, when will this be? Wikipedia lists "Core Term Expiry Dates" and "End Dates" - I'm not sure of the difference between the two.

It's the Core Term date. But as mentioned I'd take that with a pinch of salt for some operators as they can terminate early if targets aren't met.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The standard National Rail Contracts have a final contract end date but also a Core Term Expiry Date (CTED). The DfT can, at three railway periods notice, terminate these contracts at any date between the CTED and the final expiry date, at no cost to the DfT.

As the CTED dates are all between 2024 and 2027, the new Government can take these contracts back fairly quickly.

There are only two contracts that are on the old contract term + extension terms. These are SWR and c2c. Both are now in the extension periods so presumably will not move to a new NRC with their current Owning Groups when these contracts finally end in 2025.

There has been a bit of sabre rattling over TOCs such as Avanti being taken back for non performance but since the DfT are so involved in setting resource levels, that has potential difficulties. Given that Avanti has a CTED of 18/10/26, why go through all that bother?

Northern are clear evidence that being under DOLR is no guarantee of any better performance.

 

[Noodle]

Northern are clear evidence that being under DOLR is no guarantee of any better performance.

Where as TPE has massively improved.

 

[louis97]

Where as TPE has massively improved.

Almost definitely linked to the reduced timetable they are now running though, lets see how they perform once any significant service increase is undertaken.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Where as TPE has massively improved.

By offering a whopping great Rest Day Working payment.

 

[185]

A much tidied up version of the DfTs war and peace courtesy of the Bring Back British Rail website...

DfT rail contract expiry dates:

15/09/2024 – Greater Anglia
15/09/2024 – West Midlands / LNR
13/10/2024 – South Eastern*
01/03/2025 – Northern*
01/04/2025 – Govia Thameslink
01/04/2025 – Chiltern
25/05/2025 – TransPennine Express*
25/05/2025 – SWR
22/06/2025 – GWR
23/06/2025 – LNER*
20/07/2025 – c2c
18/10/2026 – Avanti
18/10/2026 – EMR
15/10/2027 – XC

*denotes DfT-OLR operator

Although it should be noted Louise Haigh has already mentioned booting Avanti out first.

Source

News - Bring Back British Rail

www.bringbackbritishrail.org

 

[dk1]

A much tidied up version of the DfTs war and peace courtesy of the Bring Back British Rail website...

DfT rail contract expiry dates:

15/09/2024 – Greater Anglia
15/09/2024 – West Midlands / LNR
13/10/2024 – South Eastern*
01/03/2025 – Northern*
01/04/2025 – Govia Thameslink
01/04/2025 – Chiltern
25/05/2025 – TransPennine Express*
25/05/2025 – SWR
22/06/2025 – GWR
23/06/2025 – LNER*
20/07/2025 – c2c
18/10/2026 – Avanti
18/10/2026 – EMR
15/10/2027 – XC

*denotes DfT-OLR operator

Although it should be noted Louise Haigh has already mentioned booting Avanti out first.

Source

News - Bring Back British Rail

www.bringbackbritishrail.org

Working for GA I understood we are now 2026 so don’t know why this shew on X as 2024.

 

[DanNCL]

Wouldn’t surprise me if the King’s speech gave some more detail on how renationalisation will work.

Legislation will need passing before renationalisation so it wouldn’t be a surprise if those expiring later this year were extended into next year to allow time for legislation to get through parliament.

For performance targets, are those set and fixed at the beginning of the contract or is the government free to change them whenever they like? As if the latter, that’d theoretically allow Labour to set the targets unrealistically high in order to get operators they don’t like (ie Avanti) gone sooner.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The 15 September 2024 date for GA is the Core Term Expiry Date in their National Rail Contract, when DfT can terminate the contract without cause or penalty.
The 2026 date is the expiry of the overall contract without DfT intervention.
DfT has to give 3 months notice when invoking the Core Term expiry clause.
It will be similar for WMT and the rest.

DfT has to be ready to manage any TOC taken back under its control, by expansion of the OLR function or otherwise.

 

[CAF397]

By offering a whopping great Rest Day Working payment.

The same deal that was previously in place for several years before it was withdrawn.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Thanks a lot for your explanation! So the earliest the government could take a franchise into public ownership would be 8th December, 84 days after the CTED for Greater Anglia and WMT?

No, the Government can take a contract back on the CTED by giving three periods notice prior to that date.

P.s. - they aren’t franchises. They are just management contracts. The current TOC MD’s have about as much power as an Area Manager did in pre-sector BR days, i.e. not a lot!

 

[LowLevel]

No, the Government can take a contract back on the CTED by giving three periods notice prior to that date.

P.s. - they aren’t franchises. They are just management contracts. The current TOC MD’s have about as much power as an Area Manager did in pre-sector BR days, i.e. not a lot!

But with a much fatter pay packet Makes the wage inflation since privatisation for traincrew look miniscule!

 

[Haywain]

But with a much fatter pay packet Makes the wage inflation since privatisation for traincrew look miniscule!

To be fair, they’ve got a lot more responsibility than BR era Area Managers x more stations, more services, more staff.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But with a much fatter pay packet Makes the wage inflation since privatisation for traincrew look miniscule!

Do you think the GBR equivalent managers will be paid any less?
DfT's OLR operation is run by highly paid consultants.

 

[LowLevel]

Do you think the GBR equivalent managers will be paid any less?
DfT's OLR operation is run by highly paid consultants.

Nope! The change in circumstances to a glorified area manager has both tickled me and horrified me somewhat in the last few years. Personally I'd find having DfT wonks imposed on me soul destroying regardless of the salary.

To be fair, they’ve got a lot more responsibility than BR era Area Managers x more stations, more services, more staff.

In some areas sure, in others of course they've lost any responsibility for significant freight operations that are either totally separate or closed completely.

 

[lordbusiness]

Do OLR/GBR/GSWR have the resource, structure and organisation to take all these TOCs on?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jul 2024 ==

Or GDGADR?

 

[Haywain]

Do OLR/GBR/GSWR have the resource, structure and organisation to take all these TOCs on?

The resource mostly exists within the TOCs and part of the structure, at least, exists in the shadow GBR Transition Team.

 

[BoroAndy]

Almost definitely linked to the reduced timetable they are now running though, lets see how they perform once any significant service increase is undertaken.

Increase in service will be interesting since all the Nova3s have gone. Wonder what the plans are? Scarborough needs better than the current shuttle service.

 

[Goldfish62]

Legislation will need passing before renationalisation so it wouldn’t be a surprise if those expiring later this year were extended into next year to allow time for legislation to get through parliament.

Legislation is not required to move contracts over to OLR.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

Working for GA I understood we are now 2026 so don’t know why this shew on X as 2024.

Out of all the TOCs, GA is the one to leave well alone, top of the TOCs in service reliability and paying money into the treasury for the privilege.

 

[Noodle]

By offering a whopping great Rest Day Working payment.

And?

 

[Haywain]

Out of all the TOCs, GA is the one to leave well alone, top of the TOCs in service reliability and paying money into the treasury for the privilege.

The fact that the money goes into the Treasury is a good reason for change - it needs to stay in the industry.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Legislation is not required to move contracts over to OLR.

Legally, OLR is supposed to be a temporary home for TOCs in difficulty, prior to re-contracting to the private sector.
Legislation is required to make OLR/GBR ownership permanent and allow them to let rail contracts instead of DfT.
Legislation is also required to change the status and powers of Network Rail and ORR within the wider rail industry.

 

[Goldfish62]

Legally, OLR is supposed to be a temporary home for TOCs in difficulty, prior to re-contracting to the private sector.
Legislation is required to make OLR/GBR ownership permanent and allow them to let rail contracts instead of DfT.
Legislation is also required to change the status and powers of Network Rail and ORR within the wider rail industry.

Yes, I know all that. But it doesn't make a case for extending current contracts that are expiring soon. As you'll be aware some of the contracts held "temporarily" by OLR have been held by them for years.

Also, politically, extending any current contracts wouldn't be a good move. The public simply wouldn't understand and there'd be uproar.