TOC to FOC

[FrankOwen]

I'm not sure what the issue is with ballast turns - You only work them if rostered to work that day or want a rest day?
And I can tell you what, I'd do ballast jobs every day until I retire if the option was available. I love being paid to sleep, have a picnic, watch Netflix.

 

[dctraindriver]

Incorrect.

I’m FLHH & I don’t work T3’s. I don’t even sign T3’s.

I don’t work for 2 weeks over Christmas (except the odd frost turn for a couple of hours on a couple of days over the festive season every 3 years).

I work roughly 1 Saturday morning shift in 8 and 1 Sunday night shift in 8. Otherwise I’m off every weekend.

Full night shifts roughly one week in every 6 weeks (and even then it’s either 3 or 4 nights max a week).

36 days leave a year. In RPS. Don’t have free/priv travel but with the reliability of my local TOC, it’s not something I’m bothered about or would really use much anyway.

Absolutely love my job and honestly, hand on heart, the only thing that would make me move on is if my company went bust or lost the contract, neither of which looks like happening for the foreseeable future.

Sounds good to me, where do I sign up?

 

[peakNed]

All other FOCs drivers will have to do 12 hour T3/ballast on the weekend. Lots of nights as well.

I’m curious as to where you’re getting your info from, some of it is quite wide of the mark.

The number of ballast turns I’ve done in the past two years I can count on one hand. That said quite often they’re a doddle, I’ve done a number of ballast jobs before where I’ve not even taken the parking brake off! I always enjoy watching the pway mob working away, it’s quite interesting seeing the work that goes into renewals and resignalling.

I work the odd weekend (I was in yesterday for a pilot turn, I did sod all it was great), I also work nights every now and again (not constantly as a lot of toc staff assume), but I’ll take a week of nights over a week of 0300/0400 starts any day!

 

[357]

I’ll take a week of nights over a week of 0300/0400 starts any day!

I've been saying this to TOC colleagues for years! Nights get rid of the very late finishes and the very early starts.

My current TOC has the latest sign off at 01:30 and the earliest sign on at 03:15. My previous was even more extreme.

 

[sorry4thedelay]

I read all the time about the RPS- people seem to base their entire careers on getting this pension even if they dislike the job or want to move on; The thought of loosing this pension always stops them....

I mean are we talking about hundreds of thousands lost at retirement?
I get it's a DB scheme with a secure payout for life which is rare these days but are people on a DC pension (the majority of workers) in such a dire situation!?

 

[357]

I read all the time about the RPS- people seem to base their entire careers on getting this pension even if they dislike the job or want to move on; The thought of loosing this pension always stops them....

I mean are we talking about hundreds of thousands lost at retirement?
I get it's a DB scheme with a secure payout for life which is rare these days but are people on a DC pension (the majority of workers) in such a dire situation!?

Many people die before retirement or soon after. Especially unhealthy train drivers! I'm not basing my entire career on a pension I might or might not get, through death, or because the government take it off of us.

I went Open Access - if I die while still employed my wife gets almost £300k. The pension isn't final salary but isn't too bad either.

Unlike some, I don't plan on driving trains my entire life and would love to move back abroad in a few years.

I'm here now, and I'm much happier and earning more than I ever was driving for a classic TOC.

 

[Horizon22]

I've been saying this to TOC colleagues for years! Nights get rid of the very late finishes and the very early starts.

My current TOC has the latest sign off at 01:30 and the earliest sign on at 03:15. My previous was even more extreme.

Most TOCs prefer this method due to not having to potentially pay higher night rates I believe.

 

[piers1234]

I mean are we talking about hundreds of thousands lost at retirement?
I get it's a DB scheme with a secure payout for life which is rare these days but are people on a DC pension (the majority of workers) in such a dire situation!?

A basic pension calculation from a pension website. States.

Retiring at 65.

For a approx yearly pension of 23k plus 125k lump sum. You need a pension pot of approx 500k. Half a million.

So yes we are talking hundreds of thousands.

Plus with RPS you get death in service. Plus a spouse/dependents pension as well.

Unfortunately a good pension is often over looked these days.

Live for today attitude.

And is dismissed with comments of "I will be dead before I need my pension" etc..

 

[tiptoptaff]

Most TOCs prefer this method due to not having to potentially pay higher night rates I believe.

Night rates haven't been a thing since Driver Restructuring in the 1980s

 

[Dieseldriver]

Most TOCs prefer this method due to not having to potentially pay higher night rates I believe.

Having worked for several different companies I’ve never received a premium for working nights

 

[Traindriver40]

A basic pension calculation from a pension website. States.

Retiring at 65.

For a approx yearly pension of 23k plus 125k lump sum. You need a pension pot of approx 500k. Half a million.

So yes we are talking hundreds of thousands.

Plus with RPS you get death in service. Plus a spouse/dependents pension as well.

Unfortunately a good pension is often over looked these days.

Live for today attitude.

And is dismissed with comments of "I will be dead before I need my pension" etc..

you get death in service with defined also and my company you get around 17% go into your pension 4 weekly which is pretty good generally speaking considering the higher than avg salary.

 

[martin2345uk]

Having worked for several different companies I’ve never received a premium for working nights

We get a fixed £40 per night turn worked, I kinda assumed that was common among TOCs but maybe not!

 

[Horizon22]

Night rates haven't been a thing since Driver Restructuring in the 1980s

For uncovered shifts too?

In which case it is probably just to reduce the amount of down time in diagrams I guess.

 

[43066]

For uncovered shifts too?

In which case it is probably just to reduce the amount of down time in diagrams I guess.

Paid at normal RDW rate.

 

[Horizon22]

Paid at normal RDW rate.

Fair enough! Always believed there was a financial reason, but I guess that is true, but tends towards economically 'more productive' diagrams.

 

[43066]

Fair enough! Always believed there was a financial reason, but I guess that is true, but tends towards economically 'more productive' diagrams.

It’s all “clean salary” these days, no allowances left.

Night turns are pretty unproductive, as a rule, so they tend to try and avoid too many of them.

 

[baz962]

We get a fixed £40 per night turn worked, I kinda assumed that was common among TOCs but maybe not!

Overground get a night premium or did when I was there , however it was only paid if in service and not for regular night turns.

 

[43066]

Overground get a night premium or did when I was there , however it was only paid if in service and not for regular night turns.

I think that’s unusual - possibly because, as you’ve noted, you’re running all night in passenger service rather than just doing a few preps in the yard. Don’t LO have a dedicated night link these days?

Freight wise I’m think I’m right in saying there’s generally no enhancement for night working - it just comes with the territory.

 

[baz962]

I think that’s unusual - possibly because, as you’ve noted, you’re running all night in passenger service rather than just doing a few preps in the yard. Don’t LO have a dedicated night link these days?

Freight wise I’m think I’m right in saying there’s generally no enhancement for night working - it just comes with the territory.

They do indeed have a night link at Willesden at the very least.

 

[Horizon22]

They do indeed have a night link at Willesden at the very least.

Probably due to some of Overground being part of "Night Tube" so aligns with the same set up as the LU night drivers.

 

[baz962]

Probably due to some of Overground being part of "Night Tube" so aligns with the same set up as the LU night drivers.

Not sure. The 24 hour was on the East side and only Friday and Saturday but we had a night link on the North London line at Willesden. I don't think Euston or Watford had any nights at all iirc. It's possible that is why.

 

[Zontar]

It’s odd how these threads get so polarised. There are good and bad employers on both sides, and which is “best” is very much down to the individual. I’m TOC through and through, and wouldn’t go to a FOC, however I can see why those who do it enjoy it, as FOC work is almost always going to be more varied and challenging than driving passenger units up and down the same few routes each day.

My TOC is one of the more desirable in terms of work, and we have drivers who have joined us from freight, but also a couple I can think of who have gone back because passenger work didn’t suit them. I can also think of one who tried to go to freight and got knocked back, so it’s definitely not the case that all one way traffic towards passenger work, or that it’s only people on plans who move to freight!



A TOC to OA thread might be really interesting, actually, as again there are good and bad points to both, depending on peoples’ individual situations.

Yes a TOC to OA would be useful, and imagine it will become quite a discussion in the next few years