TOD Collection Apple Pay

[hornbeampark]

Hello,

Does anybody know if you can collect TOD tickets, bought via the forum site, from the Northern ticket office with apple pay.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Most ticket offices will refuse to issue TOD and send you to the self service machines unless there is some sort of technical problem. The retailer incurs an additional cost for ticket office fulfilment which can also seriously affect their very small profit margin, which for smaller retailers can be a real issue.

Almost all of the self service TVMs now allow contactless to be used for collection.

 

[Haywain]

Most ticket offices will refuse to issue TOD and send you to the self service machines unless there is some sort of technical problem. The retailer incurs an additional cost for ticket office fulfilment which can also seriously affect their very small profit margin, which for smaller retailers can be a real issue.

So they are, in reality, doing the retailer a favour!

Almost all of the self service TVMs now allow contactless to be used for collection.

I don't think that's a fair reflection of the reality. However, as the purchase was made through the forum site it will allow collection with any credit or debit card at a TVM.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Most ticket offices will refuse to issue TOD and send you to the self service machines unless there is some sort of technical problem. The retailer incurs an additional cost for ticket office fulfilment which can also seriously affect their very small profit margin, which for smaller retailers can be a real issue.

Almost all of the self service TVMs now allow contactless to be used for collection.

Some without a card at all

 

[James H]

I would advise having a real card with you to cover all the bases. I wouldn't rely on being able to collect using Apple Pay.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I would advise having a real card with you to cover all the bases. I wouldn't rely on being able to collect using Apple Pay.

If you pay online with Apple Pay and you need the same card, the real card is no use for collection.

 

[James H]

Is it no longer the case that tickets purchased with Apple Pay are automatically set to 'any card' collection?

 

[MrJeeves]

Is it no longer the case that tickets purchased with Apple Pay are automatically set to 'any card' collection?

It depends on the retailer. They should set it to any card, yes, but it's not a guarantee.

 

[James H]

I would still think it was risky to turn up to collect a TOD ticket without ANY physical bank card unless I was very sure of the configuration of both the retailer's systems and the TVM(s) at the station.

 

[MrJeeves]

I would still think it was risky to turn up to collect a TOD ticket without ANY physical bank card unless I was very sure of the configuration of both the retailer's systems and the TVM(s) at the station.

Oh, definitely.

 

[Hadders]

Most TVMs require a bank card to be able to collect tickets via ToD. Some retailers require the use of the card used to purchase the tickets, others allow any card to be used.

Some TVMs (LNER is one of them) allow contactless to be used when collecting tickets via ToD. In my experience, Apple Pay works on these TVMs as well. I don't know which other TVMs allow contactless to be used when collecting ToD but I suspect Northern and Chiltern do.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Most TVMs require a bank card to be able to collect tickets via ToD. Some retailers require the use of the card used to purchase the tickets, others allow any card to be used.

Some TVMs (LNER is one of them) allow contactless to be used when collecting tickets via ToD. In my experience, Apple Pay works on these TVMs as well. I don't know which other TVMs allow contactless to be used when collecting ToD but I suspect Northern and Chiltern do.

Indeed and Avanti dont need a card at all for any card ToD

 

[Bletchleyite]

It depends on the retailer. They should set it to any card, yes, but it's not a guarantee.

If they don't then collection isn't possible at all. That would be a big hairy bug.

 

[MrJeeves]

If they don't then collection isn't possible at all. That would be a big hairy bug.

Stranger things have happened!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stranger things have happened!

For clarity that's because Apple Pay (and PayPal) doesn't tell the retailer the original card number, it's a virtual card.

Google Pay does, by contrast.

 

[Hadders]

A year or so ago I tried to purchase a ticket on the Trainsplit app that could only be issued as a paper ticket. I tried to pay using Apple Pay but the app wouldn't let me. I entered my card details manually and it was fine.

I wondered why this was but I suspect it was to do with ToD and the requirement to have to present a card to the TVM to collect.

 

[OscarH]

A year or so ago I tried to purchase a ticket on the Trainsplit app that could only be issued as a paper ticket. I tried to pay using Apple Pay but the app wouldn't let me. I entered my card details manually and it was fine.

I wondered why this was but I suspect it was to do with ToD and the requirement to have to present a card to the TVM to collect.

It wouldn't be due to using ToD, the payment floe has always been fulfilment method agnostic. A year ago is too long to find out why, the most common thing with Apple Pay is the customer data being odd or half empty, though it could have been a number of things.

 

[richw]

From my email from my recent purchase from this forum

Your tickets can now be collected from *** or any station which supports ticket collection (you don't have to use the one you originally chose if you don't want to).

You'll need a payment card to operate the machines (but it doesn't have to be the one used to book the tickets) and the reference​

I’ve edited out my collection point with asterisks

 

[Argyle 1980]

For clarity that's because Apple Pay (and PayPal) doesn't tell the retailer the original card number, it's a virtual card.

Google Pay does, by contrast.

Slightly unrelated but similar. Whenever i use either physical card or Google Pay on Plymouth Citybus, it still logs all journeys under the same card number regardless of whether the card or phone is used. I recently started using an I Phone as a stopgap until i get an upgrade and yesterday whilst in a rush at Newquay Bus station i used the phone to board. The £2 was definitely debited after i got off but it didn't show in my journey history. I take it this in part what you are saying about Apple/Google Pay?

 

[richw]

The £2 was definitely debited after i got off but it didn't show in my journey history. I take it this in part what you are saying about Apple/Google Pay?

Yes. Same thing happens on TFL. My Apple Pay usage doesn’t show on my debit cards transactions on the tfl web

 

[Haywain]

Slightly unrelated but similar. Whenever i use either physical card or Google Pay on Plymouth Citybus, it still logs all journeys under the same card number regardless of whether the card or phone is used. I recently started using an I Phone as a stopgap until i get an upgrade and yesterday whilst in a rush at Newquay Bus station i used the phone to board. The £2 was definitely debited after i got off but it didn't show in my journey history. I take it this in part what you are saying about Apple/Google Pay?

Google Pay doesn't seem to work in quite the same way as Apple Pay.

 

[crablab]

Google Pay doesn't seem to work in quite the same way as Apple Pay.

On the phone it's the same, with tokenised PANs (DPAN).

On the web, it does work differently. Because you add the card to Google Wallet first and then 'verify' on the device, the original card PAN is held by Google. So on devices where you don't have the tokenised PAN in a secure enclave (eg. your laptop) they use the card PAN, like any other online transaction.

Although this is rather moot as the industry is moving to merchant tokenisation anyway (MDES for Merchants, in Mastercard land).

Whenever i use either physical card or Google Pay on Plymouth Citybus, it still logs all journeys under the same card number regardless of whether the card or phone is used.

There's an API which allows certain merchants to do a 'reverse lookup' of DPAN to PAN to enable them to show this journey history across all devices linked to the original card. It used to be limited to TfL, but it now seems to be available more widely to those doing transit things.

 

[kacper]

I was able to collect ToD using Apple Pay at the GreaterAnglia managed TVM at Cambridge station

 

[trainophile]

A year or so ago I tried to purchase a ticket on the Trainsplit app that could only be issued as a paper ticket. I tried to pay using Apple Pay but the app wouldn't let me. I entered my card details manually and it was fine.

I wondered why this was but I suspect it was to do with ToD and the requirement to have to present a card to the TVM to collect.

Yesterday I was hastily buying an e-ticket with 10 minutes before the train was due to arrive. It wouldn't let me use Apple Pay, the little wheel spun round but just hung there then "purchase failed". It did let me pay by VISA Debit card, and luckily it offered me a choice of saved cards so I only had to put in the 3-digit security code.

(This was on the TPE website. Sorry guys but I find that easier for e-tickets as they automatically go into my TPE app without any faffing about.)

 

[MrJeeves]

Sorry guys but I find that easier for e-tickets as they automatically go into my TPE app without any faffing about.

Like how TrainSplit bookings would go straight into your TrainSplit app without any faffing about?

 

[trainophile]

Like how TrainSplit bookings would go straight into your TrainSplit app without any faffing about?

I do have the app, and just did another dummy test search, but I can't seem to find where you can select via or avoid points or all the other tweaky bits. Perhaps the version I have on my phone isn't the latest, but I do prefer the functionality of the desktop version over the mobile app. What am I doing wrong?

 

[MrJeeves]

Simply, the advanced options aren't yet available in the apps.

If you book on the website while logged in, the bookings will automatically appear in the app, though.

 

[trainophile]

Simply, the advanced options aren't yet available in the apps.

If you book on the website while logged in, the bookings will automatically appear in the app, though.

I'll have a play around when I'm not in such a panic rush to buy one then. Thanks.