-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Tonbridge to York, return next day
- Thread starter 2HAP
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
andythebrave
Member
True cost of driving is roughly £155 so the train is more than competitive (unless there's more than one of you).
Last edited:
If long journey times were not an issue, but there was a requirement to avoid Advance fares, then:
- Tonbridge to London Terminals Weekender £22
- London Terminals (ie Euston) to Sheffield LM/XC Only (change Tamworth ideally, or Birmingham NS) £45
- Sheffield to York Anytime Short R £24.90
Not sure how you make that out. Insurance, MOT cost and licence are already paid for, and the cost spread over the year is consumed per day whether the car is in use or not. I know how much it costs per mile for fuel, so it's basically just that cost to compare against train fare. Accommodation will have to be paid for in any case.
JamesRowden
Established Member
The true cost of driving (for someone who already runs a car) is greater than the cost of the fuel since wear to the car is produced and the car could be involved in an accident.
I agree that if the OP has a car then 'fixed' costs like insurance and road fund license are already paid. However certain costs are mileage dependent and will increase with usage. For example:
additional depreciation
servicing
tyres
You can't just consider the cost of the petrol.
The only time that petrol is only cost is if you are a company car driver.
The additional cost borne as a result of depreciation and servicing costs will negligible. Having recently surrendered my driving license due to health issues, I can vouch for the fact that rail travel is the more expensive mode of transport, even with a disabled persons railcard.
JamesRowden
Established Member
I have a disabled persons railcard and my travel costs don't even reach the cost of owning a car. Even without a railcard my travel costs would be substantially cheaper. How much driving can you do for £900 a year (which is the cost without a railcard).
Last edited:
Car is on a 51 plate, so no depreciation to worry about. We're talking a round trip of about 450 miles, so a tankful of fuel as most of it will be motorway conditions. Add £5 for Dartford toll, although Blackwall Tunnel / Woolwich Ferry are options for free. As Jonhewes said, additional costs are negligible.
JamesRowden
Established Member
New parts for such an old car might be expensive.
Searle
Established Member
If we're bringing hypotheticals into it, the train could be involved in an accident as well
Spare parts and repairs can be expensive. However, if repairs cost £1000 for a £500 car, you can get a different car.
For my car, running costs are ~ 12p/mile for fuel, 1p/mile for tyres, 1p/mile for mileage-related servicing. Depreciation is about 1% per thousand miles, or 5p/mile, which ends up at about 20p/mile for an extra trip. Annual charges, like insurance, breakdown cover, road fund duty, MOT and time-based servicing are another 5p/mile or so.
causton
Established Member
If we're bringing hypotheticals into it, the train could be involved in an accident as well
Or it could be delayed and the journey could be free with delay repay compensation
If we're bringing hypotheticals into it, the train could be involved in an accident as well
The difference between how likely that is and how likely it is in a car is rather large though!
True; if bringing the probability of an incident occuring, rail has a significant advantage. As for delays, they are more likely by road, for which there would be zero compensation. A delayed rail journey could end up being free, if the delay is an hour or more. Then there is the value of having productive (or relaxing) time on the train, which should also be considered.
But, rightly or wrongly, some people tend to consider the cost of petrol only, when making such comparisons. It's their choice but it doesn't make for an accurate or complete comparison.
There are of course people in the world, likely some on here that will go out of their way to claim that there is no need for any of us to have a car and that we should all get places using public transport. There are probably a much larger number of people that are dead against public transport entirely and would much sooner use the car. The very fact that both these types of people exist proves that there is a requirement for both private and public transport.
I like to travel on the train and will do so where it is practical, this isn't always based on financial reasons.
I like to travel on the train and will do so where it is practical, this isn't always based on financial reasons.
In my view this demonstrates why we should attempt to make all rail journeys competitive with car travel. At least in the case of one person travelling alone, which is not very efficient in the average car. A generalised cost figure should be used, not just the cost of fuel.
Of course this would require a major shift in public policy - huge expansions in railway capacity over and above what has already been committed and the money to pay for it coming from the government. There would still be lots of journeys where rail could not compete with the private car on both cost and convenience, but there would be far more than now if fares were lower and capacity much greater. Advance tickets, poor connections and infrequent services do not compete with cars. Fast, flexible (i.e. frequent) journeys in comfort and usually on direct trains are what competes.
To the OP, for what it's worth, the Super Off-Peak Return fare of £116.90 is not terrible value as it can be purchased immediately before boarding the train, leaving you flexibility to cancel or change your trip, it includes both ways a journey on London Undgerground to cross London, it's highly flexible, you may break your journey, there are no restrictions on Tonbridge - London trains, you can refund it for only a £10 charge, a seat reservation is available for free with it, the journey times are competitive (lots of fast London to York trains) and you can often change between trains in London far more quickly than the booking engine will tell you.
I appreciate that even all of this may not be enough to justify spending £116.90 - I certainly would not buy that fare. But it is worth considering that it's one of the better deals as rail tickets go. Very very hard to see how it's going to be a better deal than going by car though!
It is worth noting that if Manchester were your destination rather than York (and that is almost as far and has a similar service) then the equivalent fare is only £92.60. And at least you are not going to Darlington, where the fare is £139.10
Of course this would require a major shift in public policy - huge expansions in railway capacity over and above what has already been committed and the money to pay for it coming from the government. There would still be lots of journeys where rail could not compete with the private car on both cost and convenience, but there would be far more than now if fares were lower and capacity much greater. Advance tickets, poor connections and infrequent services do not compete with cars. Fast, flexible (i.e. frequent) journeys in comfort and usually on direct trains are what competes.
To the OP, for what it's worth, the Super Off-Peak Return fare of £116.90 is not terrible value as it can be purchased immediately before boarding the train, leaving you flexibility to cancel or change your trip, it includes both ways a journey on London Undgerground to cross London, it's highly flexible, you may break your journey, there are no restrictions on Tonbridge - London trains, you can refund it for only a £10 charge, a seat reservation is available for free with it, the journey times are competitive (lots of fast London to York trains) and you can often change between trains in London far more quickly than the booking engine will tell you.
I appreciate that even all of this may not be enough to justify spending £116.90 - I certainly would not buy that fare. But it is worth considering that it's one of the better deals as rail tickets go. Very very hard to see how it's going to be a better deal than going by car though!
It is worth noting that if Manchester were your destination rather than York (and that is almost as far and has a similar service) then the equivalent fare is only £92.60. And at least you are not going to Darlington, where the fare is £139.10
Last edited:
paul1609
Established Member
I think the most realistic way to price it is to use a hire car. 2 days hire of a Vauxhall Corsa from Tonbridge via europcar would be £38 (for this week). return mileage to york 480 miles say 40 miles to the gallon petrol £60, Dartford toll £5. Probably staying in a hotel you won't incur much in the way of parking charges Total £105.
Journey time about 4 1/4 hours. Places to avoid are the A1(M) Doncaster Bypass at peak times but other than that the journey from Kent up the A1 is probably about on a par with train reliability, you are probably going to be delayed somewhere but long distance driving is remarkably consistent in my experience.
If I were to drive to York, it'd probably be M25, M11, A14, A1. Avoids all that congestion on the M25 north of London. Also I know of a nice place to stop on the A14 for a break. Object of the exercise is to visit Holgate Windmill, York. Will probably also visit National Railway Museum, not been since 1975. Driving up means I can also fit in a visit to Tuxford Windmill, Notts, which is just off A1.
paul1609
Established Member
I go that way regularly. not sure if you've been up there lately but the A14 between the M11 and the A1(M) is being improved, theres a long stretch of 40 mph with average speed cameras about 1/2 past the end of the M11. Every time Ive been through its been steady but I don't really go through at peak times.
- Status