Tour de Yorkshire Friday 28th April

[mike57]

A few related points.

TPE have canceled two afternoon services from York - Scarbourough, the 14:40 York - Scarborough, and the 14:50 Scarborough York. This is because the race is going over the level crossing in Malton. Is this the first time a sporting event has closed a railway (OK only for hour).

This also ruins my plans, I was going to watch the race pass through Malton at about 14:30 then catch the 15:04 to Scarborough to watch the finish.I wonder how many others had a similar idea.

Also Northern are on strike, so getting home to Bempton afterwards will be problematic. Looks like the bus, as taking the car into Scarborough wouldnt be a good idea based on the traffic last year.

 

[brompton rail]

A number of years ago the first stage of the Tour of Britain started from Scunthorpe and finished at York. I went to the start to spot Bradley Wiggins. The race crossed the Trent, headed for Goole, crossed the Ouse at Boothferry and continued north of Howden, passing the station. A small group made an early break and got a lengthy lead, but at Howden the gates were closed for some time to allow trains in both directions! By the time they opened the peloton were is sight coming back to the waiting guys at the front. All that effort spend just to sit watching trains at Howden level crossing. Ah well, that's bike riding.

 

[Iskra]

Just to clarify for any unknowing readers; Tour De Yorkshire covers 3 days, the 28th, 29th and 30th not just the 28th.

I'm going to be at the finish line at Fox Valley, Stocksbridge on Sunday 30th.

 

[jopsuk]

very unusual for train schedules to be altered- more usual for races to be planned around services, but that's harder with the high frequencies on so many British lines

 

[Darren R]

Wasn't the Harrogate to Knaresborough line closed for the Tour de France a couple of years ago because the race was passing over Starbeck level crossing?

 

[185143]

I doubt I'd be alone in being annoyed if I turned up at the station expecting to catch the train and it was cancelled for a bike race. The trains cross over in that area-surely the shedules of the race could be altered? Call me what you like, but I don't (even remotely) see why this should take priority over the operations of the railway!

 

[Bertie the bus]

Is this the first time a sporting event has closed a railway (OK only for hour).

I expect there are many examples but in 2013 or 2014 when some golf thing was on at Lytham there were no services to Blackpool South for about 3 or 4 days. Trains terminated at Lytham or Andsell & Fairhaven. I can't remember which.

 

[TimboM]

very unusual for train schedules to be altered- more usual for races to be planned around services, but that's harder with the high frequencies on so many British lines

It's typically only 1tph each way on this stretch though, so looks like the sporting event (and rider safety no doubt) "won" on this occasion.

 

[philthetube]

Isle of Man TT closes a section of the Snaefell mountain railway

 

[JamesP]

I expect there are many examples but in 2013 or 2014 when some golf thing was on at Lytham there were no services to Blackpool South for about 3 or 4 days. Trains terminated at Lytham or Andsell & Fairhaven. I can't remember which.

I'm fairly sure it happened on the Wirral Line when the Open Golf was at Hoylake, trains terminated at Hoylake instead of West Kirby.

 

[jopsuk]

It's typically only 1tph each way on this stretch though, so looks like the sporting event (and rider safety no doubt) "won" on this occasion.

compared to a lot of continental lines that is "frequent". There's usually a ~15 minutes window where a race is expected to pass any given point, but that can be thrown out by strong head winds, tail winds , rain (slows them down), the riders deciding to go extra hard/take "a day off", and if mid stage, a breakaway could easily be ten minutes down the road- or at the end of a hard stage, the stragglers could be 10-20 minutes behind. TdY has a publicity caravan ahead- plus police and marshal vehicles between that and the race, with more behind.

There was a bad incident a couple of years ago at Paris-Roubaix, a one day race, where following a tail wind powered start the race reached a level crossing ahead of schedule. As the main bunch approached, the barriers (automatic half type!) started coming down... and not all the riders stopped. Narrow miss with a train for some. The rules do say that if the lights have started then passing is a disqualification, but there were so many broke the rule that day that the UCI, true to usual standards, fudged it. There was some hyperbole as the train in question was a TGV, but obviously it wasn't exactly doing 300km/h, being on a local line with an 80km/h limit.

They have improved protocol for that, and other, races by paying closer attention to weather forecasts, and subsequent incidents have seen riders DQ-ed.

 

[Elecman]

I expect there are many examples but in 2013 or 2014 when some golf thing was on at Lytham there were no services to Blackpool South for about 3 or 4 days. Trains terminated at Lytham or Andsell & Fairhaven. I can't remember which.

They would terminate at Ansdell and Fairhaven. On previous times they ran 2 shuttles, Preston to Ansdell and another unit Ansdell to Blackpool South to improve the frequency of service to half hourly with temporary stop boards erected at Ansdell

 

[Trainfan344]

There was a bad incident a couple of years ago at Paris-Roubaix, a one day race, where following a tail wind powered start the race reached a level crossing ahead of schedule. As the main bunch approached, the barriers (automatic half type!) started coming down... and not all the riders stopped. Narrow miss with a train for some. The rules do say that if the lights have started then passing is a disqualification, but there were so many broke the rule that day that the UCI, true to usual standards, fudged it. There was some hyperbole as the train in question was a TGV, but obviously it wasn't exactly doing 300km/h, being on a local line with an 80km/h limit.

Here is the footage of that incident. "Thankfully the TGV had slowed down."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q8TZLnzKrQ

 

[BestWestern]

Here is the footage of that incident. "Thankfully the TGV had slowed down."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q8TZLnzKrQ

I sincerely hope if that happened in the UK, the offending idiots would find themselves in court. Particularly the ones pushing their way past a policeman instructing them to stop!

 

[jopsuk]

Here is the footage of that incident. "Thankfully the TGV had slowed down."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1q8TZLnzKrQ

Quite- think the TGV was actually still going at about line speed

 

[Shunter_69]

Maybe the logistics of moving many people with the same idea as you from Malton has been taken into account with the decision to cancel trains?

 

[AndyPJG]

Isle of Man TT closes a section of the Snaefell mountain railway

I understood the service was split into 2 shuttles each side of the Bungalow level crossing, with passengers walking over the TT footbridge between the 2 halves.

 

[philthetube]

I understood the service was split into 2 shuttles each side of the Bungalow level crossing, with passengers walking over the TT footbridge between the 2 halves.

Thats correct. with a temporary footbridge erected and a length of track about 200 yards long with no service.

 

[SeanG]

That's correct. with a temporary footbridge erected and a length of track about 200 yards long with no service.

However the footbridge is not temporary.

I think this varies from the Malton example however as the SMR is essential for tourists

 

[D1009]

I doubt I'd be alone in being annoyed if I turned up at the station expecting to catch the train and it was cancelled for a bike race. The trains cross over in that area-surely the schedules of the race could be altered? Call me what you like, but I don't (even remotely) see why this should take priority over the operations of the railway!

To be fair cycle races cause more disruption to road traffic than they do to rail.

 

[marks87]

I can't help but feel people have a tendency to miss the bigger picture when it comes to mass participation events that lead to road, and in this case rail closures.

If the negative effect of closures on the local economy is X, but the positive effect is Y and X << Y, then it makes sense to allow the closures for the sake of some well-advertised disruption for a few hours.

I take part in an annual mass participant cycle event that goes along closed roads on a Sunday. The closures are in rolling 4-5 hour blocks as the event progresses (i.e. 6am-10am at the start, 7am-noon in a subsequent section, 8am-1pm... and so on). It's all advertised well in advance, and all affected residents are sent a letter and given a chance to raise concerns.

But every year there's complaints on various social media outlets about how people are "stuck in their homes" because they can't get their cars out for up to 5 hours. Or that they've had to take a relatively minor detour to get to the supermarket.

What they miss is that by having around 8,000+ people pass through, stopping at both organised rest stops and local shops en route, the local economy is significantly boosted on what would otherwise be a quiet day.

It's precisely the same with this event. Closing the line for a few hours will cause some disruption to some people, but by giving enough notice there's plenty of time to make alternative plans or at the very least be prepared for it happening. And the net effect is overall positive.

 

[al78]

I can't help but feel people have a tendency to miss the bigger picture when it comes to mass participation events that lead to road, and in this case rail closures.

If the negative effect of closures on the local economy is X, but the positive effect is Y and X << Y, then it makes sense to allow the closures for the sake of some well-advertised disruption for a few hours.

I take part in an annual mass participant cycle event that goes along closed roads on a Sunday. The closures are in rolling 4-5 hour blocks as the event progresses (i.e. 6am-10am at the start, 7am-noon in a subsequent section, 8am-1pm... and so on). It's all advertised well in advance, and all affected residents are sent a letter and given a chance to raise concerns.

But every year there's complaints on various social media outlets about how people are "stuck in their homes" because they can't get their cars out for up to 5 hours. Or that they've had to take a relatively minor detour to get to the supermarket.

What they miss is that by having around 8,000+ people pass through, stopping at both organised rest stops and local shops en route, the local economy is significantly boosted on what would otherwise be a quiet day.

It's precisely the same with this event. Closing the line for a few hours will cause some disruption to some people, but by giving enough notice there's plenty of time to make alternative plans or at the very least be prepared for it happening. And the net effect is overall positive.

There are always going to be those that think nothing should ever cause any disruption whatsoever to their oh-so-precious important lives, particularly if it is something which THEY PERSONALLY have no interest in.

I have some sympathy for the rail operators, as even minor disruption can have knock on effects. I'm surprised the cycle event cannot be routed to avoid level crossings, although in a pancake flat area such as east Yorkshire or Lincolnshire that might be difficult without causing someone else problems.

I have been on one closed road cycle event up in Pitlochry, and apart from the one maniac one year who decided to protest by sprinkling carpet tacks on a fast downhill section, the locals seem to express support for the cyclists, very novel to be cheered at from the side of the road.

 

[6Gman]

I'm fairly sure it happened on the Wirral Line when the Open Golf was at Hoylake, trains terminated at Hoylake instead of West Kirby.

I believe that the practice ground and the course are on opposite sides of the railway, linked by a foot crossing. This isn't a problem normally - presumably the members are well aware of the hazard, and are relatively few in number.

Far more people crossing at The Open, many unfamiliar with the arrangements. Tiger Woods wiped out by a 508 would not be a good headline!

Shuttle bus between Hoylake and W Kirby.

 

[6Gman]

I'm sure there was an incident in the 1960s when the Milk Race (as it then was) was approaching one of those then new-fangled AHB crossings when the lights started to flash. The police motorcyclist at the head of the race dismounted, stepped onto the crossing, and held up his hand to stop any approaching train as if he was on point duty.

Happily there was no serious consequence.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

They would terminate at Ansdell and Fairhaven. On previous times they ran 2 shuttles, Preston to Ansdell and another unit Ansdell to Blackpool South to improve the frequency of service to half hourly with temporary stop boards erected at Ansdell

Excitingly these shuttles started from the parcels platform at Preston.

Ansdell and Fairhaven station is near the 9th hole at Lytham and a long way from the 18th. This meant a long walk for punters like me who stayed till the end.

 

[jopsuk]

I have some sympathy for the rail operators, as even minor disruption can have knock on effects. I'm surprised the cycle event cannot be routed to avoid level crossings, although in a pancake flat area such as east Yorkshire or Lincolnshire that might be difficult without causing someone else problems.

To the east, other than the A64 and the B1261 which only connects to the A64, the first bridge on a public road is at Seamer railway station. As the crow flies that is 27km, by road much further- they'll avoid using the A64 to minimise traffic disruption and because racing on dual carriageways is very, very dull. Small country roads make better race courses.

To the west, again other than the A64, the nearest bridge is the A1237 York Ring Road.

Between York and Scarborough there are nine points where public roads cross the line not at grade (nine over bridges, as one is large roundabout that spans the line, and one under bridge). All but two of those bridges (which are both the A64) are in the outskirts/suburbs of York and Scarborough.