TPE Class 802 at Preston

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T0urs1910

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Driver training so they can use 802s Liverpool to Glasgow instead of 397s?

Just a guess.
Yeah that was my initial guess too…and it seemed somebody who’d commented on the Twitter post thought that the same. It would be an odd move though given the 397s are electric only and not going to be much use elsewhere in TPEs network.
 

Huntergreed

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Yeah that was my initial guess too…and it seemed somebody who’d commented on the Twitter post thought that the same. It would be an odd move though given the 397s are electric only and not going to be much use elsewhere in TPEs network.
There have been a fair few cancellations in the last few months due to a fault on the 397's. If they can clear the 802's to Glasgow and have the crew to do it (maybe one or two a day to retain competency), then this makes sense.
 

Ceat0908

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Was talk about TPE using the sou west from Carlisle to Glasgow with 802s when voyagers go...
 

Bertie the bus

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It was Freightliner operated so it definitely wasn't driver training. It also made station stops at Oxenholme, Lancaster, Preston and others. So presumably some kind of gauging run or similar.
 

JonathanH

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Was talk about TPE using the sou west from Carlisle to Glasgow with 802s when voyagers go...
What sort of talk? Coaches typically run when there is engineering work between Carlisle and Glasgow which isn't many times a year.
 

hexagon789

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Yeah that was my initial guess too…and it seemed somebody who’d commented on the Twitter post thought that the same. It would be an odd move though given the 397s are electric only and not going to be much use elsewhere in TPEs network.
I seem to remember clearing 802s to work the 397 services being mentioned somewhere else on the forum some weeks ago. So that's why I thought training run.
 

voyagerdude220

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Was talk about TPE using the sou west from Carlisle to Glasgow with 802s when voyagers go...

I'd be very happy if they could potentially also do a similar study into the practicalities of doing the same over the Settle and Carlisle, given that Virgin gave up using it several years ago.
 

JonathanH

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I'd be very happy if they could potentially also do a similar study into the practicalities of doing the same over the Settle and Carlisle, given that Virgin gave up using it several years ago.
Not at all practical for reasons discussed at length in other threads https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...deserving-of-regular-public-transport.216178/. Nothing would appear to suggest that the sighting of an 802 at Preston is about TPE starting to use any other route for diversions.
 

Geeves

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How does the 805 stack up length wise in comparison to the 802? Maybe Avanti are using an 802 to pre clear for 805 testing/introduction?
 

Bertie the bus

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How does the 805 stack up length wise in comparison to the 802? Maybe Avanti are using an 802 to pre clear for 805 testing/introduction?
I doubt it. It went Edge Hill - Carlisle - Bolton - Longsight - Preston - Edge Hill. I suspect it was just ensuring they are OK from a platform/train interface perspective for TPE. Whether it was just clearing them so they are cleared on all lines TPE operate on or for a specific purpose, e.g. divert some of the Scottish services via the WCML during the Trans-Pennine Upgrade when that route is closed in a similar way to how they have previously diverted Anglo-Scottish WCML services via the ECML during engineering work I don't know.
 

Starmill

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The more obvious answer is that it would be so that they can in future use 802s to take over some 397 work if needed.
 

Bertie the bus

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That wouldn't be the most obvious answer because a) this isn't the first 802 on this route. They first ran on it between 18 and 24 months ago and b) when services revert to pre-Covid levels there probably won't be spare 802s to replace 397s anyway.
 

Mollman

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The more obvious answer is that it would be so that they can in future use 802s to take over some 397 work if needed.
Or route clearing for ECS working between Edinburgh and Manchester / Liverpool if ECML is closed
 

Ianno87

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I doubt it. It went Edge Hill - Carlisle - Bolton - Longsight - Preston - Edge Hill. I suspect it was just ensuring they are OK from a platform/train interface perspective for TPE. Whether it was just clearing them so they are cleared on all lines TPE operate on or for a specific purpose, e.g. divert some of the Scottish services via the WCML during the Trans-Pennine Upgrade when that route is closed in a similar way to how they have previously diverted Anglo-Scottish WCML services via the ECML during engineering work I don't know.

I doubt there are paths over Shap for a diversion (as an extra path). And not sure what demand it would be catering for, a Liverpool/Manchester-Newcastle-Edinburgh service diverted via the WCML misses the key demand from Leeds/York etc. You wouldn't even really need to strengthen the existing Manchesyer-Scotland service.

Most logical explanation would be flexibility to substitute 802s in place of a 397, and/or switching units over to/from Craigentinny when the ECML route is unavailable.
 

Cheshire Scot

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Or route clearing for ECS working between Edinburgh and Manchester / Liverpool if ECML is closed
They were already route cleared for all routes via WCML which TPE operate, certainly by late 2019.

Most logical explanation would be flexibility to substitute 802s in place of a 397, and/or switching units over to/from Craigentinny when the ECML route is unavailable
Agree, a very logical explanation.
 

ash39

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When the full timetable is running, how many of the 19 802's are diagrammed for daily use? I was under the impression they were intensively used so can't see any being spared for the TPE WCML services.
 

JonathanH

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When the full timetable is running, how many of the 18 802's are diagrammed for daily use? I was under the impression they were intensively used so can't see any being spared for the TPE WCML services.
16 from 19 in the full timetable (10 Liverpool to Edinburgh and 6 Manchester Airport to Newcastle) but they really need 17 - a pair of 185s is allocated to the seventh Manchester Airport to Newcastle diagram.

If Liverpool to Edinburgh is largely cut back to Newcastle and / or Manchester Airport to Newcastle is cut back to Manchester Victoria it will allow all the diagrams to be 802s.

If TPE to Newcastle is cut back to 1tph Liverpool to Newcastle with no Manchester Airport service (or perhaps a Manchester Victoria to York service to preserve frequency on the core part of the route), there will be spare 802s.

It seems unlikely that the cut backs on both routes would be enough to displace the 397s completely however.
 
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RHolmes

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802 are NOT operating any WCML route, the runs are being used for the purpose of testing not driver training.

There are zero plans to operate 802s with TPE along the WCML in the near future but route clearance will allow for it should the need arise.

To quench rumours about the reliability of the 397’s, these are not being replaced in the near future but are currently being monitored by TPE and CAF for resolutions to minor faults which have been found post-introduction (some of which also feature on the 331)

The more obvious answer is that it would be so that they can in future use 802s to take over some 397 work if needed.
It’s not
 

Meerkat

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Modern Railways says a single daily diagram for 802s via WCML is likely from May 2022.
Is this a 397 issue, keeping crew knowledge up for contingencies, or getting units to Craigentinny?
 

DanNCL

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Modern Railways says a single daily diagram for 802s via WCML is likely from May 2022.
Is this a 397 issue, keeping crew knowledge up for contingencies, or getting units to Craigentinny?
Likely for getting units to Craigenttinny. May 2022 coincides with the end of regular Newcastle - Edinburgh services from TPE.
 

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