TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[RealTrains07]

I swear ages ago there was something said about 68s + mark 5s running services on the manchester to redcar route?

was that also abandoned?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I swear ages ago there was something said about 68s + mark 5s running services on the manchester to redcar route?

was that also abandoned?

The original plan was Nova3s on Scarborough and Teesside routes... but much has changed since then!

 

[RHolmes]

I swear ages ago there was something said about 68s + mark 5s running services on the manchester to redcar route?

was that also abandoned?

That was dropped more than two years ago

 

[CAF397]

But with York and Scarborough drivers (unsure about Scarborough guards) signing Leeds to Scarborough and Saltburn, and Manchester Piccadilly and York drivers, and Manchester Airport and York guards, signing Manchester to Leeds (and York/Scarborough), Saltburn is arguably an easier route to introduce the Class 68/Mk5s onto, as they also already sign the traction.

Quite why a decision to introduce on a whole new route was taken, many people were surprised. And it has been a recipe for disaster since.

It took over a year for the plan to use Scarborough TMD during the day, to appease the locals.

 

[Jamesrob637]

On a side note, there are very few cancellations on Trans Pennine today. A good sign.

 

[Kieran1990]

On a side note, there are very few cancellations on Trans Pennine today. A good sign.

Leeds-Huddersfield is closed and only a half hourly service from Huddersfield to Manchester-> hourly on to Liverpool is probably helping

 

[df43101]

The South Route should be abandoned for deployment of 68s. Whilst Manchester Piccadilly drivers sign Liverpool to Sheffield, it's Cleethorpes drivers who sign Sheffield to Cleethorpes. Training is behind for them, and those that have been trained put reviews in for them due to not getting on them quick enough, as the diagrams haven't produced a 68 frequently enough.

Cleethorpes, Sheffield and Manchester Airport guards sign all or part of the route, and apart from Manchester Airport guards who have signed them for years, the same training and competence issues affect Sheffield and Cleethorpes.

Where as full deployment on the North route to Scarborough is easier, as Manchester Piccadilly and Scarborough drivers have signed the 68s for years, York link has quickly caught up. Manchester Airport, York and Scarborough guards also sign all or part of the route for 68s. One issue with the 68 diagrams on the Scarborough route was route knowledge, which prevented the first 2 services East bound running as they used the diversionary routes which many drivers don't sign.

The changes since May was to abandon those early services being class 68 operated, and instead get the diagrams out on services that either don't require the diversionary route, or that don't require Castleford (which was the issue).

The 68s have their place, their 5 coaches are good people movers, they just need to be allocated to routes where the training is minimal - hence give up on the South Route.

The man I overheard was based at York & he was saying all 68s & stock might be removed. Because you live in the northern part of the TPE routes I can see why you want to keep them all to yourself. I live on the south route so I would be quite happy if they abandoned the north route so we can have them all to ourselves.

 

[CAF397]

It's a balance of what will cost more. To kepe them on the South Route Sheffield drivers would also need training up on the 68/Mk5s. To keep them on the Scarborough and introduce onto the Saltburn the depots who sign the route already sign the traction, so you would only need new entrants into the link and returnees from leave of absence.

If you were looking at getting the trains in service the cheapest way.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The man I overheard was based at York & he was saying all 68s & stock might be removed. Because you live in the northern part of the TPE routes I can see why you want to keep them all to yourself. I live on the south route so I would be quite happy if they abandoned the north route so we can have them all to ourselves.

So then, due to the lack of 68 trained drivers on the South route, you would end up with lots more cancellations on the South route. Meanwhile the North TPE route would benefit from 185s. So you would be cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

[Killingworth]

The man I overheard was based at York & he was saying all 68s & stock might be removed. Because you live in the northern part of the TPE routes I can see why you want to keep them all to yourself. I live on the south route so I would be quite happy if they abandoned the north route so we can have them all to ourselves.

Apart from the noise I'd totally agree. A reliable and consistent 5 car service all the way from Cleethorpes to Liverpool would be far preferable to the current 6, 3, 0 car trains that could start or finish anywhere.

Advertised to have trolley service if it is 3 car the tlrolley may not be able to get through the rtain. If it's 6 it's 50:50 that it will or won't be in your half.

As training on South Pennine has been in progress sincet November 2021 the number of passenger service miles as a percentage of the total run must be very small. Then there are the regular hourly paths removed from the timetable to allow for training runs that didnt happen.

I've yet to experience a Nova 3 service but they seemed to be an excellent fit if only they could have resolved the training issues. As it is the time wasted has materially contributed to the all round failure of the franchise.

 

[df43101]

So then, due to the lack of 68 trained drivers on the South route, you would end up with lots more cancellations on the South route. Meanwhile the North TPE route would benefit from 185s. So you would be cutting your nose off to spite your face.

I wasn`t being serious. It was said tongue in cheek. I want 68s for all

 

[xotGD]

TPE appears to be running an almost full timetable today.

However, looking at the allocations for services to and from Scarbados, everything is plastic. Mark 5s taken out of service for more checks?

I think that I will stick with Northern for my trip to Manchester this morning.

Edit: I see that there is a separate thread discussing cracks.

 

[31160]

Hello all,its reported elsewhere that 68031 is on the Manchester to Cleethorpes diagram today is anyone able to confirm please

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Hello all,its reported elsewhere that 68031 is on the Manchester to Cleethorpes diagram today is anyone able to confirm please

Yes currently on 1B64.

 

[31160]

Yes currently on 1B64.

Thanks

 

[sjpowermac]

The following path has appeared for Friday 30.06.2023

8Q32 2050 Scarborough TMD-Longsight

Shown as Rail Operations Group operated and 35 mph maximum.

Realtime Trains | 8Q32 2050 Scarborough Tmd to Longsight T.M.D. (D) | 30/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 8Q32 2050 departure from Scarborough Tmd to Longsight T.M.D. (D) on 30/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Urobach]

In the weekly internal update, Chris Jackson has noted Mk5as will be removed from the south route from 31 July, with 1B73 and 1B80 reinstated from 11 September

 

[Billbo]

Are these just not being used now?

Been to Scarborough today, both 3 car 185.

Saw 4 Mk5s not being used. One at York Station, one at Malton, one at Scarborough depot and one at Scarborough Station.

 

[RHolmes]

Are these just not being used now?

Been to Scarborough today, both 3 car 185.

Saw 4 Mk5s not being used. One at York Station, one at Malton, one at Scarborough depot and one at Scarborough Station.

The 4 between Scarborough and York need to be checked at Longsight by a structural engineer due maintaince staff having found to have cracks on atleast two of the MK5A’s near the yaw dampers.

They can’t be used in service before being checked and are awaiting dragging to Longsight depot. One of these ECS moves has been posted by a poster above.

There will be 68 hauled MK5A’s returning to service (if not already) but they must be checked prior to service on a daily basis.

 

[EZJ]

In the weekly internal update, Chris Jackson has noted Mk5as will be removed from the south route from 31 July, with 1B73 and 1B80 reinstated from 11 September

Indeed, I suspect the Mk5's may well be withdrawn altogether come the end of the year.

 

[59CosG95]

So, am I right in understanding that the only diagrams they currently operate via the Hope Valley are 1B64 & 1B85?

 

[rick pike]

So, am I right in understanding that the only diagrams they currently operate via the Hope Valley are 1B64 & 1B85?

Correct until July 28th when locohaul out of Cleethorpes will once again come to an end.

 

[Peter Sarf]

At last something to digest. I have been working up this spread sheet for a while. Now that more Mk5s are in use I rushed to finish it. Of course it now looks like the fleet could be grounded temporarily (or permanently).

I have taken some care but there is plenty of scope for errors. There is even more scope for the real theory that I am working from not reflecting any reality on any particular day/week/month.








Bit of an eye sight test for the first table - Scarborough services.

Seems from posts on here that :-
1) The Cleethorpes Mk5 services will come to an end from 28/07/2023. So my expectation that there will be two Mk5 services on the South TPE by the end of 2023 seem wildly optimistic.
2) Sets are being pulled for tests for cracks. This is being done daily at Longsight so I don't see how Scarborough can let any out. Goodness knows what the reality will be - maybe two or three sets can be turned out from Longsight daily. Probably all 185 more likely !.

Enjoy and/or Discuss !.

---

So, am I right in understanding that the only diagrams they currently operate via the Hope Valley are 1B64 & 1B85?

It was supposed to be 5B64, 1B64, 1B85 then 5H85 parts of the two planned Mk5 diagrams.

 

[sjpowermac]

At last something to digest. I have been working up this spread sheet for a while. Now that more Mk5s are in use I rushed to finish it. Of course it now looks like the fleet could be grounded temporarily (or permanently).

I have taken some care but there is plenty of scope for errors. There is even more scope for the real theory that I am working from not reflecting any reality on any particular day/week/month.


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Bit of an eye sight test for the first table - Scarborough services.

Seems from posts on here that :-
1) The Cleethorpes Mk5 services will come to an end from 28/07/2023. So my expectation that there will be two Mk5 services on the South TPE by the end of 2023 seem wildly optimistic.
2) Sets are being pulled for tests for cracks. This is being done daily at Longsight so I don't see how Scarborough can let any out. Goodness knows what the reality will be - maybe two or three sets can be turned out from Longsight daily. Probably all 185 more likely !.

Enjoy and/or Discuss !.

---

It was supposed to be 5B64, 1B64, 1B85 then 5H85 parts of the two planned Mk5 diagrams.

Many thanks for all of your work on this, it looks fantastic.

The timings for the main stations is really handy, what a great idea.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Many thanks for all of your work on this, it looks fantastic.

The timings for the main stations is really handy, what a great idea.

Thanks. I just hope it stands the test of time !.

 

[xotGD]

Looks like we are back to four Cats working Scarborough turns today.

That's better.

 

[EZJ]

68/Mk5 announcement due this week. My information is that you should get you rides in before December.

 

[stephen rp]

TPE have already told "stakeholders" that the Nova sets will be deployed on North Pennine rather than South Pennine services.

 

[EZJ]

TPE have already told "stakeholders" that the Nova sets will be deployed on North Pennine rather than South Pennine services.

I know, this is a new announcement due this week.

 

[xotGD]

68/Mk5 announcement due this week. My information is that you should get you rides in before December.

Disappointing if true.