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TPE Record Time Run

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YorkshireBear

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Approaching Eccles 4 Early so i would say it might work. What is the record though?
 

James268

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Done in 2 Hours 46 Mins, 4E at Piccadilly. I have no idea what the record is, a quick google comes up with nothing. Does anyone know?
 

user15681

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I think the record attempt was to do it in under 3 hours? I'm sure I read that somewhere, maybe their Facebook page.
 

The Planner

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5 minutes box time and 2½ pathing, didn't use the booked Preston stop and still came in only 4 early, Id be a bit gutted with that to be honest.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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5 minutes box time and 2½ pathing, didn't use the booked Preston stop and still came in only 4 early, Id be a bit gutted with that to be honest.

I thought 59 minutes Carlisle-Preston was pretty good with a 110mph top speed and no EPS.
That's just a fraction slower than VTs non-stop 390 (1S82, 1630 ex Euston) which is scheduled to do it in 57min.
 

YorkshireBear

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I thought 59 minutes Carlisle-Preston was pretty good with a 110mph top speed and no EPS.
That's just a fraction slower than VTs non-stop 390 (1S82, 1630 ex Euston) which is scheduled to do it in 57min.

100mph max actually. Not been cleared for 110 yet.
 

Senex

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Was it a 110 top speed, or is the top speed for these units still 100? If the latter, then Glasgow-Golborne Jcn seems brilliant to me for a 100-mph outer-suburban emu. It would be interesting to know what comparable times for a Pendolino and a 221 are, if record attempts have been made with those units.

Golborne Jcn to Manchester was pretty unexciting, but given the dead slow speeds at either end and the slack over Chat Moss that's not surprising. Given that the Manchester curve at Parkside is not particularly sharp, it's a pity that nothing was done to improve the layout with electrification.

As for records, surely it is pretty certain to be -- has anyone tried a near-non-stop run from Glasgow to Manchester before? But it could presumably be comfortably beaten by a Pendolino doing the same thing. And how long will it stand? We read that the Bolton line is to be significantly improved in speed terms, and it is also quite a bit shorter that the Golborne Jcn route to Preston. Will the Scottish trains move back to that route in due course and if so, can we look forward to another record run (perhaps into Victoria to get the fastest record time possible)?
 

YorkshireBear

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Scottish trains will not move back as they are trying to keep them at a long distance regional not commuter level. But yes it may be slightly quicker.
 

thealexweb

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Scottish trains will not move back as they are trying to keep them at a long distance regional not commuter level. But yes it may be slightly quicker.

We do not know if they will back or not yet. First Transpennine have started they would like to bring the services back via Bolton but I know their influence is limited.

Keeping them via Wigan does stop them being commuter trains as Wigan to Manchester commuters are just using them now instead of Bolton commuters.

Right now comparing Scottish services travelling between Euxton Junction to Ordsall Lane junction, the Bolton route is on average two minutes faster. This is despite there being two stops (Bolton and Chorley) instead of just one (Wigan North Western), despite a max speed limit of 75mph through Bolton and despite of slow acceleration of the DMUs.

The reduction in journey times between Manchester and Preston was originally meant to be from 39 mins to 30 mins. Now that 100mph speed limits are on the cards for Bolton what is stopping that the journey time being reduced below 30 mins. How much faster will the Bolton route have to be before it triumphs? 15+ mins?
 

BantamMenace

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If anyone has the mileage from Salford to Euxton Jn we could do some fag packet calculations based around a range of average speed limits now and in the future
 

Starmill

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We do not know if they will back or not yet. First Transpennine have started they would like to bring the services back via Bolton but I know their influence is limited.

Keeping them via Wigan does stop them being commuter trains as Wigan to Manchester commuters are just using them now instead of Bolton commuters.

Right now comparing Scottish services travelling between Euxton Junction to Ordsall Lane junction, the Bolton route is on average two minutes faster. This is despite there being two stops (Bolton and Chorley) instead of just one (Wigan North Western), despite a max speed limit of 75mph through Bolton and despite of slow acceleration of the DMUs.

The reduction in journey times between Manchester and Preston was originally meant to be from 39 mins to 30 mins. Now that 100mph speed limits are on the cards for Bolton what is stopping that the journey time being reduced below 30 mins. How much faster will the Bolton route have to be before it triumphs? 15+ mins?

If it were up to me, I'd run all the trains via Bolton and have them non-stop to Preston :D It's fairly clear that would be record-setting...

And as peak time trains to and from Manchester do not even call at Wigan, I think their current set up does prevent them from being mainly commuter services, far removed from them leaving Scottish passengers behind at Manchester because they are full of people going to Bolton.
 
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The Planner

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I thought 59 minutes Carlisle-Preston was pretty good with a 110mph top speed and no EPS.
That's just a fraction slower than VTs non-stop 390 (1S82, 1630 ex Euston) which is scheduled to do it in 57min.

1S82 stops at Preston, this didn't regardless of the slow speed through the station. All it has done is prove the everyday SRTs work, if they were wanting to fanfare this then it would have got a completely stripped out run on a clean path (the 2½ pathing approaching Uddingston was a bit naff) with the driver gunning it. Would be interested to see the actual TRUST times it reported, will look on Monday.
 

Carlisle

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It sounds like a bit of fun so no harm there ,however I take the old fashioned view that it's hard to see much merit or purpose in a record attempt of this type if you cannot exploit maximum line speed with the traction you are using , I guess you could also set a similar type of record say from Thurso to Penzance non stop in a 158 for example,but proving what ? :D
 
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Senex

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In response to Robbo1509 the distance from Victoria to Euxton Jcn is 25 miles 31 chains. A quick attempt at the distance from Victoria via Parkside (four different mileage sequences) gives 31 miles 21 chains. Preston is 5 miles 35 chains beyond Euxton. So the Wigan route is roughly 20% longer than the Bolton route.

It's about the same distance on both routes to get clear of the severe Manchester speed restrictions (though the Bolton line could quite easily be made somewhat faster if there's any major rebuilding of Salford Crescent). The only severe restriction is then the 20 at Bolton itself (which will no doubt have to stay). And we read that this line is to go up to 100, even through Farnworth tunnel.

Via the longer Wigan route you have 90 once you get on to the Liverpool & Manchester line, but down to 75 over Chat Moss (still only 60 in one direction), then three-quarters of a mile at 20 through Parkside Jcn, Lowton Jcn, and Golborne Jcn, then 110 to Wigan, 80 through Wigan, and 110/125 on to Preston.

It's hard to see how the Wigan route could ever begin to match an improved Bolton route for journey-time even if there were to be some major work at Parkside. And why is commuter traffic from Wigan more acceptable than from Bolton? Finally, what about the fact that Wigan gets a generous Scottish service from London and Birmingham trains, whilst Bolton has no alternatives?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It's hard to see how the Wigan route could ever begin to match an improved Bolton route for journey-time even if there were to be some major work at Parkside. And why is commuter traffic from Wigan more acceptable than from Bolton? Finally, what about the fact that Wigan gets a generous Scottish service from London and Birmingham trains, whilst Bolton has no alternatives?

The answer is that a fast run via Bolton takes away capacity from the frequent stoppers.
The Golborne route is currently fairly lightly loaded over Chat Moss, and merges into a high-capacity WCML.
With the current layouts, the Bolton route doesn't allow overtaking either, while the WCML section has two lots of slow lines.
Bolton will I'm sure have frequent semi-fast electric services each way with a similar journey time, but leaving room for local services as well.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I guess you could also set a similar type of record say from Thurso to Penzance non stop in a 158 for example,but proving what ? :D

A pity that there would be so few seats available, as this non-stop journey would need extra accommodation for the extra crews that would be needed and the inside filled with the extra fuel tanks with protective internal shields to accommodate the fuel requirements.....am I making this sound like a cross between The Flying Scotsman and a Class 46 diesel locomotive..:oops:
 

Class 170101

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5 minutes box time and 2½ pathing, didn't use the booked Preston stop and still came in only 4 early, Id be a bit gutted with that to be honest.

Looks like it lost time upto the pathing time anyway so the train had already used it by he time it arrived where it had been placed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would be interested to see the actual TRUST times it reported, will look on Monday.

The link supplied by Thomas6187 above with the Realtime trains schedule seems to show how it actually did.
 

The Planner

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Realtime trains schedules don't always match as it shows fractions of minutes, TRUST shows whole minutes only.
 
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