TPE services allocated for Double units

[Jamesrob637]

^Double on 0708 from Sheffield again this morning.

That's always been, or supposed to have been, right? Anybody know how the 08:08 from Sheffield has fared?

 

[BHXDMT]

That's always been, or supposed to have been, right? Anybody know how the 08:08 from Sheffield has fared?

0626 from Cleethorpes and 1618 from Manchester very unlikely to be a 6 until Dec timetable change now.

 

[Killingworth]

0626 from Cleethorpes and 1618 from Manchester very unlikely to be a 6 until Dec timetable change now.

And certainly standing room only again today!

 

[naverag]

That's always been, or supposed to have been, right? Anybody know how the 08:08 from Sheffield has fared?

I get the 0808 from Sheffield Monday-Thursday and will post next time I get it and it's 6 car. It hasn't been since that first day.

 

[Jamesrob637]

4x802 plus 2xMk5 in service today. NO excuses for short forming, if anything a reason for strengthening.

 

[johnnychips]

For the 0708 from Sheffield it is always announced that the front unit is going on to the Airport but the rear one will be detached at Piccadilly. Is this what actually happens, given that there are no opportunities for misunderstandings with reversal at Sheffield like with the EMR train ?

 

[BHXDMT]

For the 0708 from Sheffield it is always announced that the front unit is going on to the Airport but the rear one will be detached at Piccadilly. Is this what actually happens, given that there are no opportunities for misunderstandings with reversal at Sheffield like with the EMR train ?

No. The rear portion from Sheffield will be the one that goes to the Airport (but not on the 07:08 as all 6 go anyway).

From December the front portion from Sheffield will detach at Piccadilly on most services to the Airport.

 

[Trainfan2019]

Strengthening was certainly needed when I saw the 17:11 at Sheffield tonight for the airport. Absolutely packed and took a good 7 minutes to squeeze passengers on. Some were left behind.

 

[Chester1]

For the 0708 from Sheffield it is always announced that the front unit is going on to the Airport but the rear one will be detached at Piccadilly. Is this what actually happens, given that there are no opportunities for misunderstandings with reversal at Sheffield like with the EMR train ?

No. The rear portion from Sheffield will be the one that goes to the Airport (but not on the 07:08 as all 6 go anyway).

From December the front portion from Sheffield will detach at Piccadilly on most services to the Airport.

The announcements are confusing because they state the front unit will be going to the Airport. Passengers assume this refers to the unit that is at the front heading towards Piccadilly but it refers to the unit that will be at the front once the train has arrived at Piccadilly, i.e. the back unit for most of the journey. They would be much better just naming the coaches that will be going to the Airport!

Strengthening was certainly needed when I saw the 17:11 at Sheffield tonight for the airport. Absolutely packed and took a good 7 minutes to squeeze passengers on. Some were left behind.

Hopefully we are finally seeing the beginning of the end of the capacity shortage on the route. Does anyone know how many 185s will be needed to cover on WCML after December timetable change?

There should be no double 185s on North Transpennine services until all South Transpennine services are 6 coaches. The flow of Mark V sets and 802s should be enough to ease the capacity shortage on North TPE services.

 

[Trainfan2019]

17:11 At Sheffield tonight...

 

[Killingworth]

17:11 At Sheffield tonight...

View attachment 70690

Allowed 3 minutes for the stop and took 7 - only 3 minutes late arriving but 7 departing. Added another extra minute of dwell time at Stockport and arrived at Piccadilly 20 minutes late, leaving 21 minutes late for the Airport.

Any westbound 3 car train is liable to be like this and waiting for the following train is often the best practice - as long as the East Midlands service has 4 coaches, and is on time. The 17.39 was 10 minutes late.

The 17.14 Hope Valley stopping service left Sheffield only a minute late, but as a result of the delay to the 17.11 it was held in the Heeley loop and arrived at Dore 7 minutes late. It encountered further hold ups from Romiley and arrived 15 minutes late into Piccadilly.

It's not just TPE passengers who wish they'd get their rolling stock sorted out! Northern are often blamed for holding up the fast services. The truth is they are held up every bit as much by the fasts. At present there's almost an evens chance that the Northern train will have to be held for the TPE

Disruption later in the evening caused by obstruction on the line near Totley Tunnel - according to on-train announcement, a fire door on the line!

 

[Starmill]

Incorrect.

Is it? The Spanish verb 'Ir', which means 'to go' conjugates to 'va' in the third person singular. This means that 'no va' translates as 'it does not go'. I suspect that the controversy arises because the word 'nova', which is pronounced differently to 'no va', also means 'exploding star' - and that if a Spaniard really wanted to complain that their train 'does not go' they would probably say 'no funciona' ('it doesn't work') or something like that. Either way, I don't judge that either explanation impinges upon or deunks the the joke.

Of course, there's never a shortage of people willing to show off by claiming something obviously intended in humour is apocryphal, but who doesn't bother to search for any actual facts about the situation.

 

[Starmill]

Be patient.

Everyone using the railway regularly is patient with it.

Most people won't tolerate being told for 4 years that longer trains are coming, and experiencing shorter trains in the intervening period of time. There used to be quite a number of regularly scheduled 6 car trains on the North route, now there appear to be essentially none. The South route has been promised an increase in capacity for more than 2 years, and hasn't received one. Some days there is less capacity.

Results, thus far, are very poor for customer experience. Nearly everyone who doesn't have patience doesn't use the railway. Most people don't!

 

[rg177]

I travelled on the 1228 Stockport to Cleethorpes last Sunday (1219 from Manchester).

For an off-peak service it was completely crush loaded with most passengers unable to board. Not a hope of getting to my reserved seat!

Six cars can't come soon enough.

 

[Trainfan2019]

I travelled on the 1228 Stockport to Cleethorpes last Sunday (1219 from Manchester).

For an off-peak service it was completely crush loaded with most passengers unable to board. Not a hope of getting to my reserved seat!

Six cars can't come soon enough.

Totally agree with you there about six cars.

I used to get the same crush on the 11:28 every Sunday morning from Stockport to Sheffield. There was a phase a couple of years ago when it was 6 carriages for a weeks though...perfect!

 

[childwallblues]

Everyone using the railway regularly is patient with it.

Most people won't tolerate being told for 4 years that longer trains are coming, and experiencing shorter trains in the intervening period of time. There used to be quite a number of regularly scheduled 6 car trains on the North route, now there appear to be essentially none. The South route has been promised an increase in capacity for more than 2 years, and hasn't received one. Some days there is less capacity.

Results, thus far, are very poor for customer experience. Nearly everyone who doesn't have patience doesn't use the railway. Most people don't!

What's the alternative - driving over Snake?

 

[childwallblues]

There were four 802s on NCL-LIV services yesterday.

 

[johnnychips]

What's the alternative - driving over Snake?

No, Woodhead the A628. There are also three National Express services a day from Sheffield to Manchester which take 60-90 minutes. You will get WiFi and a seat. I did it on a Saturday three weeks ago and it was £8.50 return. Of course the train is much more flexible.

 

[Starmill]

What's the alternative - driving over Snake?

Via Woodhead and Stocksbridge is the more likely route.

 

[Killingworth]

What's the alternative - driving over Snake?

For those to the North of Sheffield Woodhead, for those to the south the Hope Valley and Winnats Pass is used by some, but I'd go via Stoney Middleton and Sparrowpit to the A6 at Chapel-en-le-Frith.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Everything a double today which should be given 4 802s and 2 loco-hauled sets out?

 

[JonathanH]

Everything a double today which should be given 4 802s and 2 loco-hauled sets out?

Yes, although there are two 185s on WCML workings.

 

[SHerr]

Just out of interest, can TPE actually staff all of these services if they went over to double sets?

North Services cancelled all over the place due to staff shortages- I know that’s because they are training for new stock but presumably they need 2x hosts and 2x guards/train manager for every service or are they allowed to just have 1 guard as long as there’s a host in the other set?

 

[BHXDMT]

Just out of interest, can TPE actually staff all of these services if they went over to double sets?

North Services cancelled all over the place due to staff shortages- I know that’s because they are training for new stock but presumably they need 2x hosts and 2x guards/train manager for every service or are they allowed to just have 1 guard as long as there’s a host in the other set?

Currently a 2nd Conductor is required on trains where the rear 2 coaches of a 6 coach train do not fit on the platform. If it's 1.5/1 coach that doesn't fit, or a Nova train, then no 2nd Conductor is required.

Everyone is currently being re-briefed on CASDO (automatic selective door operation) for its reintroduction some time after December (South route first as a trial), this will eliminate the need for the 2nd Conductor at all.

Given the majority of services will be Nova operated, staffing due to short platforms shouldn't be an issue (there are plenty of other staffing issues anyway!).

 

[tpjm]

Just out of interest, can TPE actually staff all of these services if they went over to double sets?

North Services cancelled all over the place due to staff shortages- I know that’s because they are training for new stock but presumably they need 2x hosts and 2x guards/train manager for every service or are they allowed to just have 1 guard as long as there’s a host in the other set?

One Guard is fine, as long as they are in the back set. Hosts are not trained for anything operationally so the front set would be looked after theoretically by the driver. C-ASDO is being tested ready for full roll-out so even at short platforms, we should only see one guard per 6 coaches.

 

[SHerr]

One Guard is fine, as long as they are in the back set. Hosts are not trained for anything operationally so the front set would be looked after theoretically by the driver. C-ASDO is being tested ready for full roll-out so even at short platforms, we should only see one guard per 6 coaches.

That’s good news- I had visions of 6 car sets running around with 3 locked out for half of the journey. Just need to make sure you get in the half with the host on any longer runs - unless the guards are going to start serving teas in first class! (Joke - before any come on and lynch me!)

 

[tpjm]

That’s good news- I had visions of 6 car sets running around with 3 locked out for half of the journey. Just need to make sure you get in the half with the host on any longer runs - unless the guards are going to start serving teas in first class! (Joke - before any come on and lynch me!)

6 car sets will be booked for two hosts, assuming one hasn’t been delayed.

Host diagramming should get simpler as well once Nova fully drops as the trolleys are not required - there’s also nowhere to store them, so if you’re working a 185 diagram, you’ll be sticking with 185 all day, which in theory means you’re sticking with the same route.

 

[Killingworth]

6 coaches apparently means it's likely to end up with one host, so half the train gets no service. With passengers spread over 2 units that should allow the trolley to get through, piled luggage and bikes permitting.

On quieter runs the inability to work half the train reduces the maximisation of potential income. Same would apply if two hosts are provided and doubling the overheads.

Without a corridor connection between the units I can see the withdrawal of host services from more trains. More scope for station cafes to provide takeaway cups to carry onto trains.

 

[Kieran1990]

6 car sets will be booked for two hosts, assuming one hasn’t been delayed.

Host diagramming should get simpler as well once Nova fully drops as the trolleys are not required - there’s also nowhere to store them, so if you’re working a 185 diagram, you’ll be sticking with 185 all day, which in theory means you’re sticking with the same route.

do the nova’s have buffets then?

 

[Starmill]

do the nova’s have buffets then?

I think they have their own special type of cart on them to serve food and drink from?