TPE to go 2-hourly Glasgow/Edinburgh on WCML from June (still at 110mph?)

[tornado]

Battery traction trial ahead as TransPennine Express fortunes improve

UK: Overcrowding and short-notice cancellations at state-owned TransPennine Express have declined since the December timetable change, prompting Managing Director Chris Jackson to suggest the operator is in a 'better place'.

www.railwaygazette.com

Hopefully seeing a better service now on the WCML. About a year ago almost all the TPE services I attempted to travel on were cancelled.

Any news about allowing their 125mph-capable non-tilting NOVAs to run at 125mph? (currently 110mph max)

 

[Mcr Warrior]

So, essentially, still broadly an hourly TPE service for WCML stations North of Preston, as far as Lockerbie?

Will these TPE trains be running mostly to/from/via Manchester Picc rather than Liverpool Lime Street?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I don't believe NR has any plans to implement an MU speed profile north of Weaver Jn.
South of there was funded by Avanti as part of the original franchise contract, though it still isn't rolled out yet.
I doubt TPE/DOLR has scope to fund NR to do the same north of Preston.
The HS2 aspect, which would have needed infrastructure changes and higher speeds north of Crewe, is now uncertain and is not exactly urgent.
Some EPS speeds in Cumbria and over Beattock are well below 110/125mph, with none Carstairs-Edinburgh and only a tiny bit Carstairs-Glasgow.
Preston and Carlisle also have very low PSRs, extending well beyond the stations.
ETCS might make a difference, by removing the signal sighting issues over curving track, but that's years away.

 

[RHolmes]

So, essentially, still broadly an hourly TPE service for WCML stations North of Preston, as far as Lockerbie?

Yes it’s restoration of the 2020 timetable

Will these TPE trains be running mostly to/from/via Manchester Picc rather than Liverpool Lime Street?

3RJ Glasgow to Liverpool

All Edinburgh and the remaining Glasgow services will service Manchester Airport

 

[Some guy]

Will be fantastic if the Liverpool services go back to 3 per day like pre Covid. It seems positive it being restored to an hourly Manchester to Glasgow/Edinburgh. It was shambolic by first group how they took the chat moss route off Preston crews

 

[The Planner]

Any news about allowing their 125mph-capable non-tilting NOVAs to run at 125mph? (currently 110mph max)

Unlikely to happen.

 

[route101]

I wonder if this includes the late services from Edinburgh and Manchester.

 

[td97]

Interesting to read that the reason TPE don't run south of Preston during the Bolton line engineering works is due to driver route knowledge. Meanwhile, Northern manage 2tph between Wigan and Manchester via Chat Moss.

 

[driver9000]

Interesting to read that the reason TPE don't run south of Preston during the Bolton line engineering works is due to driver route knowledge. Meanwhile, Northern manage 2tph between Wigan and Manchester via Chat Moss.

That is being addressed and the route learning is underway.

 

[AndrewE]

That is being addressed and the route learning is underway.

Always "Jam tomorrow!"
How come today's railway operators can't take account of what they are told of route closure or development plans and be ready for changes?

 

[td97]

That is being addressed and the route learning is underway.

Promising to hear, thanks. I understand that the way this works at Northern is only specific links have route diversion knowledge, and shuttle back and forth between Wigan/Preston and Manchester Oxford Rd for a whole shift to minimise training requirements. But is clearly effective.

 

[driver9000]

Promising to hear, thanks. I understand that the way this works at Northern is only specific links have route diversion knowledge, and shuttle back and forth between Wigan/Preston and Manchester Oxford Rd for a whole shift to minimise training requirements. But is clearly effective.

There's only 1 link at Preston and the North West link at Piccadilly already sign the Chat Moss so it's really just getting Preston crews back into it.

 

[Starmill]

I think that the thread title is misleading. What's likely to be changing is the missing Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport services will be restored. It's noted no major changes to the Liverpool services.

This will result in a full hourly service being returned to Manchester - Carlisle, and a full 2tph to Manchester - Lancaster.

All of the Edinburgh services have been back for some time now in the LTP, apart from the 2210 from Edinburgh and 2202 from Manchester Airport, the latter I'm not sure ever ran much and wasn't going to be going all the way.

I can't imagine TPE are bidding to extend the 2104 from Manchester Airport to Lancaster through to Glasgow Central or resume the 2210 from Edinburgh / apply for a new 0410 - unless someone says they are?

 

[AndrewE]

There's only 1 link at Preston and the North West link at Piccadilly already sign the Chat Moss so it's really just getting Preston crews back into it

but a real shame that passenger trains are screwed up while the railway companies catch up with planned diversions. "Rearrange these words into a well-known phrase: ..."

What's likely to be changing is the missing Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport services will be restored. It's noted no major changes to the Liverpool services.

So still no improvements for Liverpool then?

This will result in a full hourly service being returned to Manchester - Carlisle, and a full 2tph to Manchester - Lancaster.
All of the Edinburgh services have been back for some time now in the LTP, apart from the 2210 from Edinburgh and 2202 from Manchester Airport.

although still not the whole of the timetabled service. Can you imagine this being accepted without comment somewhere in London-land?

 

[Starmill]

So still no improvements for Liverpool then?

although still not the whole of the timetabled service. Can you imagine this being accepted without comment somewhere in London-land?

I'm in no way disagreeing with you on the general point that the service is quite inadequate, I am just trying to interpret the article.

 

[tornado]

I don't believe NR has any plans to implement an MU speed profile north of Weaver Jn.
South of there was funded by Avanti as part of the original franchise contract, though it still isn't rolled out yet.
I doubt TPE/DOLR has scope to fund NR to do the same north of Preston.
The HS2 aspect, which would have needed infrastructure changes and higher speeds north of Crewe, is now uncertain and is not exactly urgent.
Some EPS speeds in Cumbria and over Beattock are well below 110/125mph, with none Carstairs-Edinburgh and only a tiny bit Carstairs-Glasgow.
Preston and Carlisle also have very low PSRs, extending well beyond the stations.
ETCS might make a difference, by removing the signal sighting issues over curving track, but that's years away.

So I guess nothing to get excited about because even if they did introduce 125mph (without ETCS) it would only save a few minutes Glasgow to Manchester? I understand the NOVAs have better acceleration than the Pendolinos so they already make up a bit there.

I think that the thread title is misleading. What's likely to be changing is the missing Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport services will be restored. It's noted no major changes to the Liverpool services.

This will result in a full hourly service being returned to Manchester - Carlisle, and a full 2tph to Manchester - Lancaster.

All of the Edinburgh services have been back for some time now in the LTP, apart from the 2210 from Edinburgh and 2202 from Manchester Airport, the latter I'm not sure ever ran much and wasn't going to be going all the way.

I can't imagine TPE are bidding to extend the 2104 from Manchester Airport to Lancaster through to Glasgow Central or resume the 2210 from Edinburgh / apply for a new 0410 - unless someone says they are?

The thread title is directly from TPE's spokeperson who said "It will essentially be going two hourly Glasgow, two hourly Edinburgh with Liverpool services remaining at a similar quantum to today. What that gives is a standard calling pattern north of Preston, which customers have been crying out for."

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm taking an artery clogging pinch of salt and adopting a believe it when I see it attitude to this, whilst preparing to laugh maniacally when it all blows up spectacularly in their face as most things transpennion Express regardless who owns it touch tend to do

That said some welcome extra capacity on the North wcml at a time when it's going to be needed as the Scottish tourist season moves up into its second highest gear

 

[thealexweb]

So many off peak Scotland services crawl through Bolton without stopping. Any news of this been addressed?

 

[JonathanH]

So many off peak Scotland services crawl through Bolton without stopping. Any news of this been addressed?

Do you propose that they straighten out the tight curve?

 

[The Planner]

So many off peak Scotland services crawl through Bolton without stopping. Any news of this been addressed?

Which ones? Its only the peak ones that don't stop?

 

[thealexweb]

Do you propose that they straighten out the tight curve?

Absolutely not they should all call there as they historically did.

Which ones? Its only the peak ones that don't stop?

This is a myth. There’s tonnes that don’t stop. See today:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bolton all day on 07/02/2024

Train information at Bolton all day on 07/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

8 call to 9 pass today.

 

[louis97]

This is a myth. There’s tonnes that don’t stop. See today:

Taking your filter off, seems to be around the peaks (two trains in each direction in each peak). Plus later on in the evening, likely to give flexibility around engineering works.

 

[The Planner]

Absolutely not they should all call there as they historically did.


This is a myth. There’s tonnes that don’t stop. See today:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bolton all day on 07/02/2024

Train information at Bolton all day on 07/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

8 call to 9 pass today.

So its the peak ones that don't stop then like I said?

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

Absolutely not they should all call there as they historically did.


This is a myth. There’s tonnes that don’t stop. See today:

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bolton all day on 07/02/2024

Train information at Bolton all day on 07/02/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

8 call to 9 pass today.

That’s partly due to a bug in RTT when you use those filters. If you select A, stopping later at B, it also shows those that stop earlier at B if they pass through A non-stopping.

 

[Bevan Price]

So many off peak Scotland services crawl through Bolton without stopping. Any news of this been addressed?

Especially on the Edinburgh trains, [many were once 8 coaches (2x350), but now reduced to only 5 coaches (397 or 802)], the trains can get pretty full, so they don't want them to be used by Manchester/Bolton passengers, so they either omit Bolton, or have pick-up only stops (northbound), or set-down only southbound.

 

[Starmill]

Especially on the Edinburgh trains, [many were once 8 coaches (2x350), but now reduced to only 5 coaches (397 or 802)], the trains can get pretty full, so they don't want them to be used by Manchester/Bolton passengers, so they either omit Bolton, or have pick-up only stops (northbound), or set-down only southbound.

The services which were double 185 or double 350 until 2018 can really struggle throughout, including large numbers of standees every week between Manchester and Lancaster, even without the Wigan - Manchester passengers any more. The only saving grace is the early morning from Preston to Manchester for office workers has never returned to how it was when a double 350 was required for the first service from Glasgow Central.

The great irony is if the specification had just been for six car sets at the time, rather than wasting tens of millions of pounds on a third new train type hauled by locomotives, demand could have been much better catered for at the top end with very minimal increases in operational costs across the board (no extra crew, barely anything extra in cleaning and maintenance). But there we go I suppose.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Not many Manchester to Edinburgh were booked double 350 pre-2019.

 

[sjm77]

So still no improvements for Liverpool then?

They do not have the fleet for any more when the North TPEx goes back to more frequency. This is about restoring what has previously been cut, rather than add something new that has never existed before.

Not many Manchester to Edinburgh were booked double 350 pre-2019.

A couple of workings each Friday and Sunday afternoons from memory

 

[hexagon789]

Forgive me, but posts in this thread aren't enlightening me on the matter:

Are the Glasgow / Liverpool service(s) simply staying exactly as presently, or is it simply not increasing them over the previous 3tpd each way but they will be restored to that level?

 

[Starmill]

Not many Manchester to Edinburgh were booked double 350 pre-2019.

Up to four each way per day Friday - Monday. Plus the 0428 from Glasgow Central moved to attaching to form a pair. Very intensive use compared to now.