TPE - your survey today was biased to show you in a good light.

[unlevel42]

Today at about 4pm I was ignored ...OK nothing new ... I was not asked to do a satisfaction survey of my train journey.
Those sat down(in seats) were asked if they wanted to complete the survey, those of us stood up or sat in the corridors, vestibules, bike space, luggage racks(honest) were not. I was not. I asked if I could do the survey but I was told that it would be difficult to do the survey as I had nothing to write on.

As many of the questions related to how comfortable the journey was I would just point out that those sat down and doing the survey will have a positive view. Those of us not chosen would likely not have appositive view.

In the questions relating to train staff- plenty of announcements and apologies.
Questions about toilets and catering - its not that I did not choose to use but I could not reach them.

My survey this year:
On nine return TPE trips between Sheffield and Stockport all on off peak I have stood up for the whole journey 10 out of 18 times.

 

[Ianno87]

In fairness, what would be the point of handing a survey to somebody stood up, who'll have nothing to lean against to write on, nor anything to hold on to/steady themselves with while they do?

If having to regularly stand is a problem, you could always write a complaint to TPE?

 

[urbophile]

Don't they give an address where you can post it? It is clearly not designed to provide an accurate picture.

 

[class17]

Was it a TPE survey, or a TPE specific Transport Focus survey?

Yesterday I was asked if I would complete a Northern specific Transport Focus survey. You could either enter it on-line (you key in your email on a tablet) or were given a form with a pre-paid envelope to return it in.

I appreciate if you didn't receive one, you may not know the answer.

 

[unlevel42]

In fairness, what would be the point of handing a survey to somebody stood up, who'll have nothing to lean against to write on, nor anything to hold on to/steady themselves with while they do?

I used a pencil, works quite well when leaning on vertical surfaces. You can manage a lot in forty minutes.
I am not angry or upset its just that the survey outcome would be biased towards "happy" customers. Its like not asking owners of faulty fridges when asking buyers how satisfied they were with the fridge.

Was it a TPE survey, or a TPE specific Transport Focus survey?
Yesterday I was asked if I would complete a Northern specific Transport Focus survey. You could either enter it on-line (you key in your email on a tablet) or were given a form with a pre-paid envelope to return it in.
I appreciate if you didn't receive one, you may not know the answer.

About 10 pages on departing station (Stockport) and the journey made, not TPE specific.

 

[The Ham]

Given that you have stood ask the way over 50% of the time in your services, chances are regular passengers who managed to get a seat on the service you were on would have also stood a number of times.

I know that when I travelled on services on my local line regularly I knew at what point the trains would be full and standing (even if at my local station I could almost always get a seat). Which meant during the times of disruption when I chose to stand (so I could get off the train when needed) I had an understanding of the comfort levels of those who stood.

You said that you couldn't get to the loo, however it is also implied that the surveyor was able to move around. As such I would guess that there weren't too many (although more than a few) people stood between the seats.

As such, the service is busy and could do with being longer, however I would guess maybe 10-20% more people than seats but still below the point where a train would be counted as over capacity. (That's not too say that it's comfortable or right).

 

[IainG81]

I can imagine that if you're stood up and someone puts a questionnaire in your face about how comfortable the journey is, people might not be to happy. I think they probably will get a biased picture through, i think you should have had the chance to complete online later as you were on the same service as the people with seats.

 

[Matt_pool]

If you got a seat and did the survey would you have mentioned the standing passengers? I would have done, and I would have pointed out that more often than not I don't get a seat.

Merseyrail are good at fiddling surveys. They give surveys out on near empty off peak services and get good satisfaction scores. Had they surveyed people on overcrowded, peak time services the results would be completely different.

 

[Iskra]

If you got a seat and did the survey would you have mentioned the standing passengers? I would have done, and I would have pointed out that more often than not I don't get a seat.

Merseyrail are good at fiddling surveys. They give surveys out on near empty off peak services and get good satisfaction scores. Had they surveyed people on overcrowded, peak time services the results would be completely different.

I think the all TOC’s do it. The only time I’ve ever been offered a survey was on an off-peak service over the Settle & Carlisle in old Arriva Trains Northern days on a well kept 156.

Not once have I seen surveys handed out on the busy commuter routes around Leeds, Sheffield or Manchester served by inadequate stock, despite the fact I travel on these services a lot more frequently than any other.

 

[deltic]

The surveys that are published by Transport Focus are not done by the TOCs - not sure the TOCs do any surveys themselves that they would publish the results from rather than use them for their own internal purposes

 

[superalbs]

Only survey I've ever had on a train was Luxembourg to Trier Hbf, on a double-deck train, I was the only passenger on the floor, so I guess they weren't interested in how commuters feel about their services. :P

 

[Muzer]

I've received TF (and PF) surveys on about three separate occasions, and none of them felt particularly "biased". This does seem rather odd, I would expect that standing passengers should also receive one. Maybe send a message of some description to TF and see what they have to say about it?

 

[faltskog36abba]

I was asked to fill in one of these forms- When Trans Pennine reintroduced Newcastle services from Manchester Victoria a couple or so years ago. The train was lightly loaded and I gave favourable answers in the questionnaire ,However I can understand your point of view -I would of insisted on being given a form if I was standing on a busy service. Ten years or so back I was standing all the way to Sheffield on an east midlands service - This was before double 158 services ran and it was a two carriage train, I wrote to them and they refunded over half of my ticket.

 

[theironroad]

Today at about 4pm I was ignored ...OK nothing new ... I was not asked to do a satisfaction survey of my train journey.
Those sat down(in seats) were asked if they wanted to complete the survey, those of us stood up or sat in the corridors, vestibules, bike space, luggage racks(honest) were not. I was not. I asked if I could do the survey but I was told that it would be difficult to do the survey as I had nothing to write on.

As many of the questions related to how comfortable the journey was I would just point out that those sat down and doing the survey will have a positive view. Those of us not chosen would likely not have appositive view.



In the questions relating to train staff- plenty of announcements and apologies.
Questions about toilets and catering - its not that I did not choose to use but I could not reach them.

My survey this year:
On nine return TPE trips between Sheffield and Stockport all on off peak I have stood up for the whole journey 10 out of 18 times.

The cynic in me would say that the staff handing out the questionnaire have been internally briefed not to give them to people standing.


Either way, only given the questionnaire to people sitting when it includes comfort questions is undoubtedly going to lead to skewed answers and falls far short of good practice for surveys.


If you're keen, I'd pursue it with the TOC or whoever runs the survey. Being refused an opportunity because you're standing and they think you're incapable to fill out a form smacks of deliberate bias to me.

 

[Carntyne]

It's likely the independent NRPS so suggestions of "internal briefings" are a bit OTT. There isn't a big conspiracy to sway the NRPS results.

 

[theironroad]

It's likely the independent NRPS so suggestions of "internal briefings" are a bit OTT. There isn't a big conspiracy to sway the NRPS results.

I've never claimed a 'big conspiracy' but what the op outlined is bad practice for carrying out surveys, and will skew the results in favour of TOC in terms of comfort scores.

As an aside, when I initially posted I'd meant to put 'informally' rather than 'internal' but either way it could be construed the way you did so I won't edit it out.

 

[farleigh]

There is no doubt that the survey is invalid if it was aiming to seek views from all passengers on that service. It is only valid if in producing the results, the analyst makes it clear that only those seated were asked.

 

[DarloRich]

Today at about 4pm I was ignored ...OK nothing new ... I was not asked to do a satisfaction survey of my train journey.
Those sat down(in seats) were asked if they wanted to complete the survey, those of us stood up or sat in the corridors, vestibules, bike space, luggage racks(honest) were not. I was not. I asked if I could do the survey but I was told that it would be difficult to do the survey as I had nothing to write on.

As many of the questions related to how comfortable the journey was I would just point out that those sat down and doing the survey will have a positive view. Those of us not chosen would likely not have appositive view.

In the questions relating to train staff- plenty of announcements and apologies.
Questions about toilets and catering - its not that I did not choose to use but I could not reach them.

My survey this year:
On nine return TPE trips between Sheffield and Stockport all on off peak I have stood up for the whole journey 10 out of 18 times.

Cool story bro! It is hardly a shock that surveys are skewed to deliver the result the person commissioning the survey wants. Whilst i am sure there could have been specific instructions to not ask people standing up their views i suspect the person managing the survey thought your input would be compromised due to not having a flat surface to write your answers on or that you would be unable to deliver part or all of the survey thus negating your input. That or a massive conspiracy.

 

[rich r]

I did the survey a few weeks ago just after leaving Leeds at 16:38, and I was standing in a vestibule area. About four other people standing nearby also did it. They gave us pens and something to lean on too, and said that if we wanted we could take it away and return it on a later journey.

So I suspect it was just the person doing the surveys on the train you were on ignoring you, rather than policy.

 

[deltic]

You may also not have fitted the demographic they were looking for at the time which they are sometimes a bit coy about saying

 

[beano900]

I got one last week. It was on a train at 12:00, empty, bang on time.

Meanwhile, on the sardine tin at 8am, no survey bloke in sight.

 

[cuccir]

..i suspect the person managing the survey thought your input would be compromised due to not having a flat surface to write your answers on or that you would be unable to deliver part or all of the survey thus negating your input. That or a massive conspiracy.

I agree it's unlikely to be a conspiracy, but in that case we have to go with incompetence on behalf of the survey designers. If you design in such a way that a portion of your population who all share a characteristic - ie all of those standing - can't complete it, then it's a badly designed survey.

 

[rich r]

But when I was given the survey whilst standing, they had (admittedly a limited number of) clipboards and pens so we could fill it in, and also given the option to return it on our next journey. So either I was on a service with an unusually good survey person, or there's no deliberate conspiracy - at least at the time I did it, which was about four weeks ago.

 

[Chris M]

The one time I've been given a survey it was on London Overground and the journey I was making was far too short to complete the questionnaire (Highbury and Islington to Camden Road I think) so I took it away, completed it at home and posted it back to whomever it was. It was an off-peak service and I don't recall any standees.